Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tsayers1068 Jul 27, 2015 7:45:48	Something's occurred to me: the berserker archetype, or at least the frenzy abillty, doesn't seem to be very well thought out.  Now that I've played it for a while I've come to the conclusion that totem warrior, bear totem in particular, is superior to the poor berserker as written, and by playing a berserker it's almost the same as not having an archetype at all.  So I got to thinking about that during the endless boredom that is my job and came up with a house rule that seems a little more playable/balanced with totem warrior:  frenzy itself works exactly the same: bonus attack on every round after the first--the reason for this is that it actually takes a bonus action to enter rage and you only get one bonus action a round--BUT it does not cause exhaustion--instead, before you enter frenzy you must pass a CON save.  If you fail this save you may not enter frenzy again until you finish a long rest.  The first time you attempt this the save is DC10 and it increases by 5 with every subsequent attempt.  Example: a berserker wants to frenzy on his first rage of the day.  He gets a 12 on his CON save and successfully enters frenzy for the duration of that rage.  Later in the day he decides to frenzy again but rolls only a 14 (15 is required).  He now does NOT enter frenzy, and may not use the frenzy ability until he finishes a long rest.  If he was to succeed and later try for a third frenzy the DC would be 20.  So what do you guys think?
#2 rampant Jul 27, 2015 7:58:58	I tend to be very leery of class features that require additional checks to use. It makes them either very swingy or the check fails to act as a limiter. In which case why bother?   That Said I'm unclear why they felt the need to apply an exhaustion price for that power given how many feats and class features give a similar ability. I mean if you have to limit it why not make it con linked the war the war cleric's bonus attacks are wis linked?
(Reply to #2) Clutchbone	rampant wrote:
#4 shintashi Jul 27, 2015 9:52:39	Your logic is sound. While working on my kensei class and chatting with a friend the other day, we concluded an attack combination might be too powerful as it was written, so we discussed creating an exhaustion characteristic tied to it, and then setting up a saving throw to resist. The constitution save was originally supposed to be the damage inflicted, but that would be ridiculous, so then we discussed damage before the technique modified its final value (which would be something like DC 11-15 instead of DC 50+). Our goal was to create parity between "finger of death" spells per day and use of this special technique.   Then i got to thinking about pro-rating the DC according to the extremity of the technique, or even having multiple levels of exhaustion. So 5 levels would be something like DC 20, 1 level might be DC 12, all constitution saves.   You are coming at it from another angle, you already have the exhaustion penalty in place, and no way out of it, without creating a Con save to overcome the effects. The problem is the rules are already published, and directly attacking the rules only works if you have lots of people who can persuade Wizards to fix something that is clearly broken. Otherwise, you can propose a feat that can be tacked on to produce some effects, like providing a Con save to overcome the exhaustion, or proposing some constitution skill feature that has a similar effect, like endurance.   There used to be an endurance skill, as well as a spell called Dispel Fatigue. That spell was extremely low level and would have instantly cured all exhaustion problems. Attack any mechanic directly you like as a house rule, but remember it will likely produce arguments later if your house rule isn't used in the next gaming group you attend.   That's the problem with house rules - only a few become ubiquitous, the rest just lead to banned characters and hurt feelings.
#5 Coredump00 Jul 27, 2015 9:55:17	My suggestions: You can Frenzy at the same time that you Rage While you Frenzy (rage?) you can ignore all exhaustion levels.   I *might* make it possible to remove exhaustion a bit faster... but likely only for later levels. (IOW, if you have lots of exhaustion, you can get rid of two levels if you.... (fill in the blank))
#6 Leugren Jul 28, 2015 11:37:39	Why can't people just accept the fact that frenzy was intended for use as a daily nova, preferably saved for that final climactic battle against the BBEG?     I am currently playing a traditional maul-wielding mountain dwarf barbarian, and I opted for the Berserker path, because the hard-ass veteran campaigner that I was imagining wouldn't be caught dead chatting up little squirrels and bunnies with an ability like speak with animals.  The fluff of the Totem Warrior path, with it's nature-boy theme, just didn't at all fit in with my character concept.  I have the GWF feat, and while it gives me a bonus action attack or two every battle, this just doesn't compare to the nova potential that Frenzy provides by giving me a bonus action attack every round for an entire battle lasting 10 rounds.  The bonus action attacks and bonus damage from GWF are still great, since I only use Frenzy once per day (i.e. far from cancelling each other out, the two abilities are mostly complementary).  I have managed to time the use of Frenzy almost perfectly so far, incurring exhaustion only right before the group is ready to take a long rest.  Our battle against Venomfang in LMoP would have been a TPK if I hadn't frenzied to pour on the damage while the rest of the group was dropping like flies.    Immunity to the charmed and frightened conditions while raging has also proven to be a godsend, precisely for the reasons that others mention above: enemy spellcasters find it virtually impossible to turn me against my allies. Intimidating presence works often enough thanks to the low Wisdom scores that most creatures have.  I only use it out of combat, but it's a nice addition that fits in quite well with the concept of my character.      Retaliation is fantastic.  Especially if (like me) you don't have another reliable source of extra attacks with your reaction.  This ability alone makes the whole Berserker path worthwhile for me.     I'll simply conclude that, for certain character concepts (i.e. the tough guy who disdains the use of polearms and the ability to chat up little birds like Snow White), the Berserker is a great fit.  You get better damage output, and you still have resistance to most of the damage that you are likely to take as a frontline combatant (i.e. slashing, piercing, bludgeoning).  With Frenzy, Reckless Attack, GWF -5/+10 damage bonus, and Retaliation, you can become an unstoppable killing machine for at least one encounter per day.    Cheers!   Leugren
#7 transcendantviewer Jul 28, 2015 11:39:38	I just ruled that it'd give you an extra attack during an attack action, rather than a Bonus Action Attack. That way, it actually feels like you're getting something out of the deal and not merely getting angry to the point of harm for the same bonus that any character with two weapons can get.