Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lawolf Aug 21, 2014 10:15:16	The 5e fighter is somewhat lacking in both battlefield control and the ability to protect the party from harm. I realize it is a fools errand to make the 5e fighter anywhere near as good at defending as a 4e "defender", but I would like to give players the option to at least be a mediocre tank. Here is my suggested fighting style for fighters and paladins.   Guardian Fighting Style When you take the Attack action on your turn, you may choose to reduce the number of attacks you make by 1 in order to protect your allies. If you do, until the start of your next turn the ground within 5 feet of you counts as difficult terrain for your enemies and all enemies within 5 feet of you have disadvantage on attacks against your allies.   This style will do two things that are important for defenders to do. It makes them more "sticky" and it incentivizes the enemies to attack the warrior. The trade off for this is reducing the number of attacks you make each round by 1. Yes, this means that from levels 1-4 the guardian will make 0 attacks if he uses this ability.   What are your thoughts?
#2 mellored Aug 21, 2014 10:18:35	Why not just grab the enemy?
#3 bawylie Aug 21, 2014 10:20:30	I believe that each resource you acquire that allows you to use a reaction in a new way should also grant an additional reaction.
#4 Lawolf Aug 21, 2014 10:21:15	mellored wrote:
#5 Uskglass Aug 21, 2014 10:28:17	I like it and I think it will work. You'll get complains like 'how does it make it difficult terrain? It must be magic!", which is BS as far as I'm concerned, but there you go. Even with this, I still think OA are in dire need of a general overhaul though: either go back to 1/turn, or allow multi attack to apply to them, either on a single target or spread around multiple ones across the round.
#6 ClockworkNecktie Aug 21, 2014 10:31:03	Hey, you stole that from me stealing it from barbarians! ;)
#7 spelley Aug 21, 2014 10:43:34	Lawolf wrote:
#8 Shadewyn Aug 21, 2014 10:49:00	Lawolf wrote:
#9 Lawolf Aug 21, 2014 11:19:21	Shadewyn wrote:
#10 Captain_Kobold Aug 23, 2014 15:50:21	Lawolf wrote:
#11 Lady_Auralla Aug 23, 2014 15:54:06	According to what I read the enemies space is already counted as rough terrain.
(Reply to #10) Vikingkingq	Captain_Kobold wrote:
#13 Lawolf Aug 23, 2014 18:21:33	Captain_Kobold wrote:
#14 MechaPilot Aug 23, 2014 19:34:59	Uskglass wrote:
#15 blake_marlowe Aug 24, 2014 3:40:40	the control concept requires a commitment to battlemap-based play, which AFAICT isn't the default assumption in 5e. lawolf, i agree with the rest that the DMG may fix this for you--who knows, maybe there's an option that lets you take [proficiency bonus#] number of reactions?
#16 Lawolf Aug 24, 2014 4:03:48	blake_marlowe wrote:
(Reply to #5) Uchawi	Uskglass wrote:
#18 Uchawi Aug 24, 2014 5:02:20	Lawolf wrote:
#19 DLfan Aug 24, 2014 15:18:38	No changes are needed. The fighter just clobbers anything dumb enough to try and run past it.  Provoking an AOO is not a good idea for monsters especially with great weapon master in the mix. Sentinel is also very useful since it locks down one monster. Is it useful against a horde of monsters? No, not really. But in 5E, fighters should not be able to defeat a horde of monsters all by themselves. That is what AOE's are for. You will have to use your head and line up choke points or terrain to neutralize monsters.  You also have to view action economy as a concept for PC's. If a fighter/rogue takes a feat that gives additional reactions or bonus actions than he does not need to make hard choices. If a fighter/rogue wastes a reaction on a AOO then he won't have it for uncanny dodge.  I like that he has to make a choice and that it is not an easy one.
#20 Rhenny Aug 24, 2014 15:30:56	I like it.   Sacrifice an attack to create an aura like effect.   It may be a bit too strong for just a fighting style.   It seems more like a feat.   I'd also love to see a way for melee PCs to gain more reactions (and or allow them to use "shove" or "grapple" as their reactions instead of just attack).   Imagine if a fighter could grapple (or trip) a foe who tried to run out of his threat area.    That would really be cinematic and it would help the fighter protect other allies as well.
#21 Psikerlord Aug 24, 2014 19:35:49	Rhenny wrote:
(Reply to #21) 2Chlorobutanal	Psikerlord wrote:
(Reply to #21) Rhenny	Psikerlord wrote:
#24 MechaPilot Aug 24, 2014 21:00:21	Rhenny wrote:
#25 Lady_Auralla Aug 24, 2014 21:56:14	I think it would be fair that a fighter gets a number of reactions equal to his number of attacks. This way it is not overpowered at lower levels and grows with the character as they level up.
#26 Psikerlord Aug 24, 2014 22:26:54	Lady_Auralla wrote:
#27 Uskglass Aug 25, 2014 2:34:22	I would really like this to allow knocking prone targets hit by OA from the fighter, thus preventing them to move away, but it'd need multiple OA available per round to be effective.
#28 JohnLynch Aug 25, 2014 4:18:55	I'd go a univers rule "any creature who has the extra attack feature may forgo an extra attack and in return gain an additional reaction for each attack they forgo. These extra reactions expire at the start of the creature's next turn if they do not use it." This universal rule plus the marking feat gets you closer to a 4th ed defender. If your worried about two weapon fighting shenanigans (which would be a valid concern) you could make it an alternate class feature where fighters (and other classes) don't get extra attacks but extra reactions. It's less versatile but avoids TWFing concerns. Shadewyn wrote:
#29 Uskglass Aug 25, 2014 4:27:25	JohnLynch wrote:
#30 JohnLynch Aug 25, 2014 4:58:07	A defender giving up offense for defense is exactly what they want though. It makes one character a defender and another a striker.
#31 Uskglass Aug 25, 2014 5:33:00	JohnLynch wrote:
#32 AH_schulerta Aug 25, 2014 6:11:05	I like this. I think a fighter should be able to forgo move or attack actions and create a sphere around them that enemies know if they enter it, they are going to pay.
#33 edwin_su Aug 25, 2014 6:15:14	Uskglass wrote:
#34 edwin_su Aug 25, 2014 6:21:54	also for "tanking" a single target there might be interesting ways to use the ready acton option. But would depend on how complex you are alouwed to make the trigger.   for example could you ready the folowing. if this orc chieftan tries to move away from me, or attacks me i will use my attack action to attack him.   If this ready opton would be alouwed it woulden't matter if the orc chieftan used disengage as your readied action would still trigger ( disengae only prevente attacks of opertunity) And as it is your atack action you can use options like shove and grab.
#35 Uskglass Aug 25, 2014 7:37:18	edwin_su wrote:
#36 GhostStepper Aug 25, 2014 10:16:04	Uskglass wrote:
#37 Uskglass Aug 25, 2014 10:40:20	GhostStepper wrote:
#38 IxidorRS Aug 25, 2014 12:50:50	Defender builds should be 3rd level features, for fighter, Martial Archetypes.   A paladin build would be awesome as well.
#39 IxidorRS Aug 26, 2014 12:37:40	A proposal. I'm trying to keep it similar to other abilities in 5e, so saving throws are in there for some of it and I don't think getting 1 OA/turn is going to fit into the system, but maybe.   The Challenger Archetype   When you go into battle, you pick your targets well and make sure they know you're coming. No matter who you've brought with you, you make sure their eyes see only you. You are their engagement, and no one else.   At 3rd level, you gain three challenges from the list below. On your turn, you may spend a bonus action to use a challenge. Dominant Roar - You yell out to all around you, goading foolish enemies into seeking you out. All enemies with 15' must make a Wisdom saving throw. Until your next turn, any creature who fails this save has disadvantage while attacking creatures other than you. Invigorating Challenge - Pick a creature, that creature has disadvantage to attack any creature other than you. If that creature misses an attack before your next turn, you are well heartened, and gain temporary hit points equal to your Con modifier + your level. Frightening Challenge - Your scream across the battefield brings fear to your chosen opponent's eyes. The target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a fail, that creature is frightened. On a save, that creature has disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you. Footwork Lure - Using a bit of fancy footwork and feinting, you and a creature within 5' of you trade places, it's balance thrown. If that creature moves before your next turn, it has disadvantage on attack rolls. Lasting Threat - The challenge lasts until you or the target is unconscous, or incapacitated, or you're no longer within line of sight of each other. Because your threat rings in its ears, the target has disadvantage on attacks against creatures other than you. You cannot issue any other challenges until you've had a short or long rest. (Probably not the most solid list, but it can be improved)   At 3rd leve, you gain a number of extra reactions you can use, equal to your Dexterity modifier. You regain these uses after a short rest or long rest. You can use a reaction to attack a creature you have challenged that disengages from you or that attacks a creature other than you.   Starting at 7th level, when you roll initiative, you can call out a challenge.    Starting at 10th level, you can call out two challenges on each of your turns and you gain an additional extra reaction.   Starting at 15th level, ...something?
#40 rampant Aug 26, 2014 12:46:11	Bonus damage when attacking your challenged foes? x times/day hand out disadvantage to saves vs. your challenges? Aura of distraction that inhibits enemy will saves witin a certain radius?
#41 Emerikol. Aug 26, 2014 12:57:00	Here is another take...   Fighting Style: Threatening Presence  Any foe in base contact with the fighter suffers disadvantage when attacking any other target besides the fighter.  The fighter may also call out insults and challenges to any frontline enemy combatant who is engaging in melee.  Any creature failing a intelligence check against DC 15 will charge the fighter on their next turn.   Feat:  Challenging Presence Prerequisite Fighting Style Threatening Presence.   Any target of fewer hit dice or lower level if classed, also provokes an opportunity attack when threatening presence applies.  In addition, any enemy trying to disengage the fighter must make a strength or dexterity check against the fighters level+10 or fail thus provoking an opportunity attack.        Obviously these are off the cuff but tell me what you think.
#42 Joe_the_Rat Aug 26, 2014 13:01:19	Have a shared language / must be able to understand you requirement on the insults?   "fewer hit dice or lower level" is redundant: classed characters have hit dice, unless you are trying to avoid confusion with potential "racial hit die"-bearing races down the road.