Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Abracastabra Aug 30, 2015 21:15:56	I was contemplating making a knowledge cleric 1/wiz x for Encounters. I looked at the pantheon and saw Azuth. I figured that sounded like a fit, let me learn more about him . Then I go to FR wiki and learn he's a dead power because asmodeous ate his divine essence in the Sundering. There this whole history of the FR that makes this pantheon not match up. You'll then find elements from recent storylines like the Shadovar crashing into myth drannor in these hillsfar quests, so they reference this stuff. So, am I reading stuff incorrectly, or are there dead gods on the pantheon for FR in the PHB?
#2 Vulf Aug 30, 2015 22:21:39	You can still worship dead gods. But I think any deity in the PHB is valid.   Some gods also came back from god death or whatever.
#3 Brimleydower Aug 31, 2015 0:55:03	There's a "what's the deal?" situation currently, because we know that most of the Gods are coming back, but there hasn't been any official releases actually detailing how or why yet (save for a select few). So yeah, there are dead Gods, but they're going to be alive again at some point, supposedly. Probably. If it's in the book, you should be good to go.
#4 Mirtek Aug 31, 2015 3:56:55	Azuth is stiring again since the last Brimstone Angeles novel, it's two more at most until he has resurrected himself
#5 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 31, 2015 8:44:39	The lore you found about Asmodeus eating him wasn't the Sundering, it was the Spellplague. But it's easy to get them mixed up by name, especially if you aren't reading the novels.   Faerun loves having semi-apocalyptic events explaining what happens when D&D editions change. For instance, the pantheon was very different in AD&D 2e, but when the transition came to 3e, it coincided with an event called the Time of Troubles, where most gods became mortal for a while and many of them were killed (and several mortals took up their mantles instead - Mystra, Kelemvor, and Cyric are three examples of this, as well as nearly all of the relevant lore surrounding Bane and Bhaal). When 3e transitioned to 4e, there was a more dramatic apocalypse with the Spellplague, where Mystra was murdered and the world went haywire before eventually settling into 4e's form. (Azuth's death at the hands of Asmodeus, and the latter's ascension to godhood, is one of the many changes that happened here.)   The change from 4e to 5e is happening right now, with an event called the Sundering. Exactly what this event is isn't entirely clear, but the 5e PHB hints at its final outcome: the Realms will eventually settle in a form much closer to how it was in 3e, along with several old deities returning (along with a few that were dead in 3e, for good measure). Azuth's listed on the table, so we can assume he's going to revive (or someone else will become a new Azuth, a la Mystra in the Time of Troubles, or something else along those lines). We can't really say how it'll occur as of now, though.   But yes, you can totally worship Azuth. The only question is how active his clergy is, and that's a question to sort out with your DM.   (Note: The general question about worshipping dead gods is a tricky one in Faerun, due to the fallout from the Time of Troubles (gods are sustained by prayer - so what happens if prayers are continually offered to a dead god?), some canonical examples of dead deities having contingency plans to secure their revival (Bhaal most famously, but Myrkul is back in 5e too, and if Mask of the Betrayer is considered canonical then he had a similar plan in place), and the Wall of the Faithless (what's the difference between believing in an actually-dead deity and believing in a fictional one?). But you won't have to deal with these with Azuth, it seems.)     Full disclosure: I despise Faerun as an adventure setting and a lore source, and its soap opera cast of a pantheon is a significant reason for this. But I do try to stay at least partially aware of what's going on in the setting.
(Reply to #5) Azzy1974	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
(Reply to #5) Abracastabra	Lots of good info here , thanks guys. Looked into the whole Brimstone Angels thing, and I see what you mean about signs he's stirring.  So I totally get how someone could worship a dead god. Heck, one could worship anything. What confuses me is how a cleric who derives his power from said god could use his divine powers if said god was dead.  Maybe since they put azuth in the phb and considering the aforementioned hints at his resurgence, we can assume that azuth still exists in some form and can thus still imbue his clerics with divine power.  From an rp perspective, would a cleric of azuth know his god was absorbed by asmodeus? I don't read the novels or anything, so I don't know how common of knowledge the fate of the various gods is.  I don't expect much of this to come up in an AL game, it would just seem weird to me to rp this without some basic understanding of a god who I claim to champion.
(Reply to #7) Azzy1974	Abracastabra wrote:
#9 Grazel Aug 31, 2015 17:39:30	Also even though Azuth was slain, his spark was absorbed by Asmodeus, so those who drew from worshipping Azuth are still getting their power, it's just coming from Asmodeus, or technically Azuth's divine spark in possession of Asmodeus.   It's the same reason paladins can dervive divine magic in 5e without worshipping a god, their faith in their oath grants them power.   Rarely in the Realms does a god's divine spark get extinguished, it can change owners, or fragment into multiple owners (like Mask got split between 3 mortals and Mephistopheles). Rarely is the spark entirely destroyed since that spark is an aspect of reality and determines the portfolio of the god.   So as scary as it sounds after the Spellplague Asmodeus essentially became a god of knowledge and magic, even if he didn't focus on such things. Azuth was kind of a minor deity anyway as he was subservient to Mystra and overlapped some with Oghma as well.   On another note Lathander became Aumanator and now post-Sundering is reverting back to Lathander. The Sundering books help explain some of the 4e to 5e transition, and the Reaver (book 4 of 6) actually shows a good example of how religion in the Realms works when even followers of the same god (in this case a Chosen of Lathander and a church of Aumanator) can disagree and see the other as a threat for "teaching" a different view of the god.
#10 Enevhar_Aldarion Aug 31, 2015 20:25:22	Whatever happened pre 5th edition release in the Forgotten Realms does not matter for what deities are allowed for AL play. If the deity is in the PHB, then it is legal to use for your character. But if the fluff and timeline and history bug you too much, the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide will include an official update on the condition of the Realms for 5th Edition.
(Reply to #7) Mirtek	Abracastabra wrote:
(Reply to #11) Azzy1974	Mirtek wrote:
#13 Mirtek Sep 01, 2015 12:10:50	Azzy1974 wrote:
(Reply to #13) Azzy1974	Mirtek wrote: