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| #1DreamstryderJul 05, 2014 15:55:46 | Basic Rules page 80: And oddly enough, Mass Healing and Revivify still use 3e’s classification of healing as Conjuration (conjuring cells to close wounds). It seems one can heal in any number of ways!
You needn’t agree, but if we had to pick one school for healing, wouldn’t Necromancy be the best fit? (In 1e, Cure Light Wounds, along with Resurrection, was Necromancy.)
Perhaps the reason necromancers are reviled in some places is because they “misuse” a power originally meant to heal. Maybe Necromancy was discovered one day when a healer said, “Oh Glob, I made a mistake.” Following that yarn, maybe I could tease out more culture surrounding spell schools in my world.
Thoughts on schools or the cultures behind them on yours? |
| #2ShadoWWWJul 05, 2014 16:07:01 | Necromancy for mystic magic (like wizards) and evocation for divine magic (like clerics) would be the best. Healing as Conjuration seems odd to me. |
| #3RastapopoulosJul 05, 2014 16:11:22 |
To evoke and to conjure really are synonyms. I always found the distinction D&D made between the 2 rather odd.
When you evoke a Fireball, you are conjuring a ball of fire. |
| #4ankiyavonJul 05, 2014 16:22:56 |
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| #5RastapopoulosJul 05, 2014 16:31:51 |
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| #6ankiyavonJul 05, 2014 16:49:20 |
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| #7FFSAAJul 05, 2014 16:55:07 |
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| #8RastapopoulosJul 05, 2014 17:08:49 |
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| #9RastapopoulosJul 05, 2014 17:21:20 |
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| #10draegnJul 06, 2014 16:49:12 | From my understanding the schools of magic were originally a player sent in suggestion letter to Dragon Magazine. Someone then decided to include them in second edition. For all the problems listed above and more we decided to ditch them entirely. For us schools of magic are what your arcane caster class name is. The various types of spells are then based on what they do. Attack spells, warding spells, healing spells... etc....
Doing this has made a greatly easier game to explain to new players for us. |
| #11IronblueJul 06, 2014 18:56:13 |
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| #12LupusRegalisJul 06, 2014 19:14:13 | LOL, love it, Ironblue. Think I'll share this with my group. |
| #13LawolfJul 06, 2014 19:52:27 | The schools of magic are bunk. |
| #14FFSAAJul 06, 2014 20:43:59 |
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| #15MacEochaidJul 06, 2014 21:40:09 | I think the important thing is that now these spells are effected more by their subclass than anything else. The 4E keyword system worked a lot better because it wasn't forced to take on a category that didn't fit it. Adapting that system would have been smarter. Some spells might not even have schools.
Enchantment and Illusion seem fine, everyone seems to know both what a spell like that would look like even though they tread on each other's roles, and it's clear what an EnchantER and an IlusionIST would have as their special abilities. The role of both is battlefield control, with a lot of options for tricks outside of combat.
Evocation should keep all the crazy elemental/energy shooty shooty stuff, plus a lot of conjuration and abjuration spells. Very little non-combat utility. Magical artillery and showy effects.
Conjuration should be nixed, if it's magical energy forces it's evocation, if it's plopping monsters on the board it's summoning. The summoner wizard will probably be limited by concentration to one monster on the board, but summoned monsters are already pretty powerful and full of flavor, the summoner wizard could be built viable and interesting to play even if it's features soup up only their handful of spells that bring monsters in play. Features would increase their concentration checks allow them to maintain a summon concentration spell and another concentration spell for instance. In addition to their one monster they fling non feature enhanced general spells.
Necromancy is flavorful enough, outside of the healing spell date, most people have a sense of whether a spell is something a necromancer would use or not.
Transmutation spells and wizard features should turn the wizard into a buff/debuff champion.
Divination Spells, most people know what they are, but think of them as almost entirely outside of combat. I could see a very "leader" like set of spells, action enabling, and lots of "cast as a reaction" to allow allies to avoid hits or act out of turn. However I've almost never met someone interested in playing a diviner. They could easily become the new lazy lord though.
Abjuration should be nixed, it's not exciting enough of a whole character concept (and if it is it's better as a Paladin/Cleric/Druid) and it's fluff seems unclear too.
Healing should have been made a "school" but without a corresponding wizard subclass. Tons of cleric subclasses and feats could use a "when casting a 'healing' spell" . . . Perhaps abjuration spells that don't fit in Evocation, Transmutation, or Summoning could become "protection" but this I see as being a category that is keyed off of in Paladin/Cleric/ Druid class features.
Primal should come back as a tag since "naturey" character concepts are very popular. Elemental powers need to have keywords/schools, as they will definitely have charater concepts based around them often.
Anyways, that's just some of my thoughts.
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| #16LagueppeJul 06, 2014 21:45:08 |
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| #17BrimleydowerJul 06, 2014 23:44:19 |
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| #18kalilJul 07, 2014 0:03:50 | The schools of magic become very confusing because they dont use any consistent definitioin. Examples;
Evocation and conjuration are defined by the method they employ (evoking/conjuring stuff) regardless of what they accomplish Abjuration is defined by the accomplished result (protection) regardless of the method they employ Necromamcy is defined by the kind of stuff you cast spells on (dead people generally), and doesnt care about method or result |
| #19MacEochaidJul 21, 2014 23:34:50 | I wanted to re-explain why the academic debate about which school is which is foolish.
Every spell has a Wizard School associated with it. So far only one game mechanic interacts with spell school. The Wizard Subclass system.
If we see Paladin's "Wrathful Smite" and the Ranger "Hunter's Quarry" from the playtest in the PHB, they will be an Evocation and a Divination spell, restricted to that one class. However these classes will probably never have subclasses of "Evoker Paladin" and "Divination Ranger."
I thought maybe it could be of use for an Evoker High Elf with Dex as his secondary taking a Paladin level so they can cast Wrathful Smite with their shortsword but then I saw that the school benefit applies ONLY to Wizard Spells . . so the evocation tab on the Paladin spell is mostly a wasted piece of information that will have no effect on game play.*
This is even more frustrating since the Wizard is not even the only "Wizard" anymore.
Warlocks, Sorcerers, and Bards, are all full caster of "arcane" flavor. While Warlocks and Bards could have subclasses that are effected by schools of Illusion, Enchantment, or even Conjuration, and Sorcerer's could use Evocation school spells to interact with their subclass features, I don't want to just see a rehash the Wizard class over and over again.
Sorceror Subclasses should remain based on their Draconic Blood, or Elemental/Wild Magic essence. Warlocks should be defined by their pact (and this cool new sword/book/chain) idea.
So schools being tagged for every spell mean either A) Mostly wasted information that never comes into play for Non-Wizards, or B) The only bit of metadata in a spell desciption for subclass features to key off of, forcing other casting classes to rehash the Wizard subclass system.
The Cleric watches the Wizards debate over whether his healing spell is Necromancy, Transmutation, Conjuration, or Evocation with a puzzled look. Because, ultimately the Cleric doesn't care, it doesn't effect his ability to heal the party in any way.
*Maybe Planescape rules, but even those were ridiculously convoluted, and mostly just gimped the wizard. |
| #20Joe_the_RatJul 22, 2014 5:52:45 |
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| #21Mephi1234Jul 22, 2014 6:14:33 |
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| #22QmarkJul 22, 2014 12:13:06 | Hold on, is D&D finally letting the wizard cast CLW? |
| #23ankiyavonJul 22, 2014 12:21:39 |
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| #24Mephi1234Jul 22, 2014 12:55:33 |
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| #25MacEochaidJul 22, 2014 14:09:49 |
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