Next week we are starting the Horde of the Dragon Queen module with my group, and I'm starting as a lvl 1 human fighter. My initial intent was to play a caster, but no one else was willing to play a tanky character, hence the fighter. Long story short, my intention is to heavily multiclass into a caster, and thanks to some very beautiful things I read in this forum from some trully ingenius players, I even found a good way to go about it, even profiting from this one (actually extending to 2 in the future) fighter level.
So I ended up with what will shape after a few levels, into a heavily-armored, durable, spell-damage-pouring machine. Most of the choices of the build seem to blend well with one another, but there are some loose ends, for which I would very much appreciate some feedback from anyone who cares to give me a hand.
First off, as the main tank of the group, I will always be in the front line. The problem with that, is that my high damaging spell requires a ranged attack, hence I expect that most of the time I will have disadvantage on the attack roll. My first (and dare I say silly) solution to this problem, was that at the start of each round I would move away from engaged enemies provoking attacks of opportunity, which hopefully wouldn't kill me since I will have a very good AC and after some level a blur spell going. Not a good plan, I admit. Then, I noticed this feat : crossbow expert. That seems to be a good way to get rid of disadvantage when I throw ranged spells into melee, since it does not restrict lifting the disadvantage for weapon attacks only. Am I reading this correctly? Does anyone know of another way to go about it? I was really hoping that the warlock would have an answer to this problem, via a pact blade arcane focus or sth similar, but couldn't find anything there. Crossbow expert seems to be a good way to solve this, but I was wondering if I can solve this issue of throwing ranged spells into melee in some other way, and without spending a feat. Any suggestions?
My character is going to be using a shield and a one handed weapon. With the war caster feat, I need not worry about the somatic components of spells, but if I do not take this feat, the only option for me to throw spells while holding a shield, would be to not wield an actual weapon in my main hand. Mind you, I won't be using my weapon for damage, I will rely on cantrips for that purpose. But if I loose the weapon, then automatically I cannot do an opportunity attack, since I am not threatening the squares adjacent to me, as I have no weapon in hand. So, if I don't take the war caster feat early, is there a way to threaten adjacent squares without holding a weapon? I searched for spiked gaunlets and shields, but could not find anything. Any ideas? I even went as far as to think a ludicrous scenario, in which my character carries a douzen weapons or so (mostly daggers, just not to be completely ridiculous), and when I want to cast a spell I drop my weapon (free action?), and after casting the spell, as part of my movement I draw another weapon, so that no enemy leaves my reach without provoking an opportunity attack.
So basically my problem comes down to not having enough feats to solve those two major issues. I will get my second feat at 8th level (the drawback of my heavy multiclassing into sorc and wrlc), so I need to solve at least one of these problems (disadvantage for casting ranged spells into melee, and needing a free hand to cast spells while at the same time having a shield and be able to make opportunity attacks) without using both the corresponding life-saving feats (crossbow expert, and war caster, respectively).
Ending with, I would appreciate if anyone could give me a reading into the twinned spell, from the metamagic options of sorcerer. Does the extra target have to be a different creature than the initial target of the spell, or could I aim for the same target again? Please adress this by taking into account the wording, and not any possible intention of the design.
Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post. Any other suggestion on the above concept of melee caster is welcome.
Um, play a paladin. Use smite alot. If you are looking for mechanics only, then paladin is the class for you.
Take the human variant trait, that'll give you a feat right off the bat so you can pick up your second feat at level 4, i think?
however you shouldnt feel the need to play "the tank" just because the rest of your group doesnt want to/they want you to. If you wanna be a caster then be a caster. If you wanna still be a fighter and cast spells then the fighter has the archtype of eldritch knight or take the pally or cleric class.
Strider, paladin is my favourite class, but in this one campaign I think I'll skip it. It is a good suggestion though on your part and thank you for it.
CCS, I get what you are saying, but I can't help it being a team player. Besides, the other players created their chars before me, thinking that I would probably play a paly, as usual, and we ended up without a melee guy. Sure, I could force things a bit, so that someone changes his character, and I'll admit that in the begining I was not super excited to play a melee tough dude. But I gave it some thinking, some inspiration finally kicked in, started writing the background of this character, and now I can't wait to play him and breathe some life in him. As for forcing one thing to become sth else, I always loved a paradox. I really anticipate for the moment when this simple warrior discovers he has a talent for the art (magic). Thanks for the advice, but I assure you I am not being repressed.
Cobblestein, I will stay as far away as possible from the Eldritch Knight archtype, I find it poorly designed and not exciting at all (just my opinion though, and it does not reflect my opinion for 5e, which I really like so far). I've also taken the human variant trait, and that's where I get my one feat from, at 1st level. I will get my second feat at level 8 though, as this is the drawback of my build of multiclassing, as before level 8, I will have 2 levels of fighter, 2 levels of warlock, and 3 levels of sorcerer, taking my 4th level of sorcerer when I hit level 8, so that's my second feat right there. Sure, at level 8 I've got all my problems solved, but it's a long way up to there...
To sum up...
I'll play a tank caster. Human fighter-warlock-sorcerer. My role will be to tank (start as fighter to get the hp and the proficiencies), and I have ranged cantrips for damage, looking to throw them at enemies engaged with me.
2 problems: disadvantage at my attacks, and no free hand to cast spells with (as I have weapon and shield).
I found a way to solve these problems by feats, but I only get one feat (from the human) until level 8 (multiclassing pevents me from getting any feats earlier). So I am asking if anyone knows of an alternative way to address any of those 2 problems.
I solve the ''disadvantage in attacks'' problem (which is the big one), with the crossbow expert feat.
I solve the ''no free hand'' problem, either with the war caster feat (but I cant get it unless I find another way to solve the ''disadvantage to attacks'' problem and not by the crossbow expert feat), or by throwing away my melee weapon (which I only need for opportunity attacks), but that creates the problem that enemies will not provoke opportunity attacks from me.
So, I either need : 1) an alternative way (to the crossbow expert feat) to solve the disadvantage of throwing ranged spells into melee, or
2) an alternative way (to the war caster feat) to solve the problems of casting spells while not having a free hand (without either being the subtle spell from the metamagic options of the sorcerer), or
3) a way to threaten adjacent squares, so that my enemies still provoke opportunity attacks if they leave them, but without me holding a weapon.
C'mon you little munchkins, put your heads together!!! Please and thank you...
Why are you looking for a way to negate the disadvantage? Why not just take the chill touch cantrip or just use your sword at first? I mean if you manage to deal something like 1d8+4 damage with your sword, that's as good as a chill touch until you get 3d8 damage. So with a fighter 1/warlock 1, you would have your sword, your chill touch, your eldritch blast and war caster at level 1 if you take the variant human. You'll get to cast spells with your weapon and shield, make opportunity attacks with your chill touch and blast with eldritch blast when your opponents aren't in melee. And if it's really important for you to only use eldritch blast, this option will be good enough until you take the crossbow expert feat at level 8.
Why do you want to take sorcerer levels by the way? Is it for roleplaying reasons or did you find some kind of advantage that I'm not seeing?
Corran21 wrote:
Prism wrote:
I just saw something. Did you notice the pact of the blade pact and the lifedrinker evocation? It's not fantastic but a fighter 5/warlock 15 could add both his strength and charisma damage and make two attacks with a double ability score bonus. That's potentially 2d8+20 damage at level 12. It's comparable to the fighter's 3d8+15 damage at level 11.
I think a fighter/warlock with a blade pact and the dark one patron can be really nice. You're making me want to play one 
.
Corran21 wrote:
The way I have planned it, is this : I'll use my d8 melee weapon at first level (after all I start as a newby fighter, and I want my character's progression to show, so I have to start low, just like every other common boring fighter (pardon me the boring term). When I hit level 2 (probably that's a sorcerer level), poison spray takes over for a good deal of levels. Sure I'll have a cantrip for longer range (in case I ever need it) and a melee touch cantrip for opportunity attacks (thought I needed a weapon for those, but seems melee touch cantrips work as well, so I've got my OA's right there).
But all this is only as I set the stage for eldritch blast, to come and take over after some certain point. That is going to be my cannon. With a hex spell going, a twinned spell metamagic option from the sorcerer and an action surge standing by, this is going to translate to one big nova, and to a very decent dpr (all that while tanking at the same time). At this point I feel the need to say again what I said in my initial post, that this idea of this build is not mine, rather I borrowed it from a post from this very forum, started by Zardnaar. So with an optimized eldritch blast I can beat the damage of an optimized poison spray, especially at higher levels the difference gets bigger. What makes eldritch blast so great, is that each d10 is a different attack, so that earns me a lot of extra damage (from static bonuses like the one I get from agonizing blast - warlock invocation, and from spells like hex). I hope that answers some questions regarding my anxiety to dispose the disadvantage from ranged attacks against targets with which I am engaged in melee. Because I do want to use eldritch blast specifically, once I get my character ready for it.
Gnarl, that is a good build indeed (I refer to the fighter 5 - warlock 15, with the lifedrinker invocation). It would take to improve my str and cha significantly (using all the ability bumps there), to get that +20 static bonus (I assume you got that from a str and a cha score of 20). Assuming a 20 score on both str and cha, the average dpr of your suggested build is 29 points of damage, and you can go nova (using action surge) for 58 points of damage. Using a hex spell, that's 36 damage dpr, and 72 damage nova. With an optimized eldritch blast, I get 24.5 dpr, and if I use hex, then the dpr is 35. It falls short of 1 point of damage (on average), but the nova is just ridiculous. Using action surge AND twinned spell from the sorcerer, I can go as far as to quadraple that damage in one round (provided I have the sorcery points to do it).
Adding sorcerer levels in the build has some advantages, from metamagic options that can make a difference, to more spell slots that can be either used for spells, or be transformed into sorcery points to let me go nova more times per day. But believe it or not, I want to do it mostly for rp reasons!!!
PS: Have to say that this concept of the fgt/wrlc with the pact blade and the dark one patron really intrigues me. Keeping it in mind for future use...
PS 2 : So I guess I will be going with crossbow expert at 1st level, since from lvl2 and onwards I won't be using a weapon, not even for OA's. I'll probably get the war caster feat at level 8, just to get advantage on my con saves for concentration (as a tank I expct to get hit and having a hex continuously disrupted won't be a nice thing), or maybe I'll use it to bump charisma to 18, I'll just have to wait and see for this one...
BlinkBlink wrote:
One more question. What do you make of the wording of the twinned spell (metamagic option of the sorcerer). Can I use it to aim the same target a second time, or is it obligatory to aim for a new target? I think the intention of this feature is to allow to hit a different target, but the wording confuses me, and I think is vague enough to let me target the same enemy a second time. Is it me wanting it too much to work that way, or do you see it as well?
Corran21 wrote:
Gnarl wrote:
Corran21 wrote:
Corran21 wrote:
Why even go fighter at all. You gain almost nothing by taking levels in fighter. You reduce your capabilities dramatically however.
Taking 4 levels of fighter only gives you a few points of AC, action surge, and second wind. Nice things for sure, but probably not worth decreasing the number of spells and invocations you know, can cast, and the level at which you get them. At level 17+ you miss out on foresight (advantage to all rolls all day long and all attacks against your have disadvantage).
"Tanking" in 5e doesn't really exist. Any smart enemy will simply choose to ignore the highly armored hard to kill warrior and go after the squishier target. So even if you had better AC, that actually only serves to make your enemies more likely to attack your allies.
Additionally, the warlock has much better means of tanking than a fighter. Cast darkness to disrupt a whole group of enemies. Use devil's sight invocation to see in the darkness yourself. Use the invocation that grants you temp HP at-will as a supercharged second wind (start every fight with 9 temp HP). Use Hex to give a target disadvantage on Strength checks, then shove + grapple the target.
Spells and invocations provide so much utility both in and out of combat, I can't see why you would want to give them up. If you are worried about AC, use some of the tricks described above that give enemies disadvantage on attack rolls, or take the moderately armored feat for medium armor proficiency.
Alternately, a good offense is better than a good defense in D&D. Polearm Master + Warcaster + Eldritch blast can ensure that anyone who tried to attack you is in for a nasty surprise. This trick can be combined with either darkness or hex for added fun.
CCS wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
Gnarl wrote:
I don’t have my PHB in front of me so I couldn’t check your build, but I don’t think that’s going to matter anyway.
Are you the only melee combatant? HOTDQ primarily uses melee enemies attacking in packs. The amount of encounters per game is also high requiring strict resource management. I know some people have posted that you should play what you want, but party makeup is definitely still vital for success. HOTDQ is a tough module. You’re going to need your whole group guarding each other’s backs and complementing each other’s abilities to stand a chance.
On the plus side if your party is geared toward range you should be able to take out the dragon no problem, and good luck with Cyanwrath.
Corran21 wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
Theros wrote:
Corran21 wrote: