Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ramzour Nov 24, 2014 14:43:45	(Forward) I'm continuing this discussion from a previous thread, but wanted to start on a more productive note. I do, however, invite everyone from the other thread to give ideas here, as long as they are productive. Please no lengthy debates about HP-as-Meat. This is not the thread for that. Now, onto the good stuff.....   In this thread we discuss ideas for a low hit point recovery module that might please some of the more old-school D&D fans out there. Together, as a community, let's make something good. You discuss and I'll update the OP with our ideaI'll start.   What Mechanics could be modified? Short Rests Long Rests Second Wind (Fighter) Preserve Life (Cleric) Lay On Hands (Paladin) Song of Rest (Bard) Survivor (Fighter) Wholeness of Body (Monk) Rally (Fighter) Dark One's Blessing (Warlock) Inspiring Leader (feat)     What solutions do we have for modifying the above? Short Rests Long Rests Second Wind (Fighter) ... ... ...         - - - - - - - - - - - Did I miss anything? Talk about it below! (and please be civil)
#2 DaveDash Nov 24, 2014 14:52:06	Also the amount of healing spells provide needs to be modified, since the ratio of party hitpoints: healing power (ie, spell slots) has been significantly toned down.   In AD&D and definitely 3rd Edition once you passed a certain point, you practically had enough healing spells to fully heal the party, and at higher levels you could do it a few times over. In 5th edition that really isn't possible even burning ALL your slots on healing, except for Mass Heal.  Monster damage is also appears to be higher in 5e. I've been converting City of the Spider Queen and 3rd edition monsters do  less damage than their 5th Edition CR counterparts (with standard attacks anyway).   Also if you're looking at a x/day hitpoint healing amount, you need to factor in party hitpoints as well. In AD&D these were capped basically at level 10+, 3rd edition I think you got less overall, and 5th edition you get much more.
#3 SillyMind Nov 24, 2014 15:07:17	To have a very lethal and gritty game I suggest the following: Short Rests: HD give Temp HP. Long Rests: No full healing, regain half your HD and an appropriate number of HP (1, 1 per level, 1/10th, etc). Second Wind (Fighter): Temp HP. Preserve Life (Cleric): Magical Healing is ok. Lay On Hands (Paladin): Magical Healing is ok. Song of Rest (Bard): Temp HP. Survivor (Fighter): Temp HP (you alway have a damage buffer up when wounded) . Wholeness of Body (Monk): might be Temp HP or Magical Healing = DM call. Rally (Fighter): Temp HP. Dark One's Blessing (Warlock): might be Temp HP or Magical Healing = DM call. Inspiring Leader (feat): Temp HP. Because Temp HP isnt stackable, maybe when you spend HD(+ Song of Rest in some cases) it is ruled as a single source.
#4 Saelorn Nov 24, 2014 15:12:41	Ramzour wrote:
#5 ankiyavon Nov 24, 2014 15:36:43	I think personally, I'm basically just going to use the idea that's been thrown around a few times.   A short rest is 8 hours (overnight). A long rest is a week in a safe location.     The only change I'd need to make is slapping with a DMG any player who wants to play a warlock/cleric to get healing that recovers on a short rest, and then continue slapping until they agree not to do that.  (They could play a warlock/cleric if that's the character they want, it would just ruin the whole thing I'm trying to go for if they wanted to do it for the purpose of generating theoretically infinite healing without having to go back to town.)       This does result in slower spell recovery overall than most editions of D&D, but it lets you maintain the core balance of 'encounters per long rest' while spreading those encounters out much more than occurs under the default assumptions.  (The spell recovery is very comparable to OD&D, which allowed casters to recover spells only at the start of an "adventure",. which had a different meaning than it does today, but basically it meant you can only recover spells when you're in town resting up.)
#6 Lawolf Nov 24, 2014 15:39:41	ankiyavon wrote:
#7 Gnarl Nov 24, 2014 15:47:03	Lawolf wrote:
#8 draegn Nov 24, 2014 15:56:50	We ended the problem of paladins and clerics multiclassing with warlock by banning it. Think about it, if a paladin or cleric is a servant of a deity why would that deity allow them to make deals with other beings? At the very least there is a conflict of interest. A paladin talking with an extraplanar being that is not a representative of his deity is the first step to switching all levels of paladin to blackguard.   Short rests only "recharge" stamina based activities and remove exhaustion. You can only engage in physical activities for so long. The fighter's second wind is a way to "double this by sucking it up".
#9 SillyMind Nov 24, 2014 16:11:50	Gnarl wrote:
#10 Lawolf Nov 24, 2014 16:05:17	Gnarl wrote:
#11 Gnarl Nov 24, 2014 16:16:17	Ramzour wrote:
#12 Gnarl Nov 24, 2014 16:22:12	Lawolf wrote:
#13 edwin_su Nov 24, 2014 16:26:20	Another sugestion would be the following :   no change to the short rest.   long rest  remove the full heal. and the number of Hitdice regained becomes 1/2 your proficiency bonus.   introduce the extended rest. this is a rest period of 1 week. you heal fully and regain all your hitdice.
#14 Lawolf Nov 24, 2014 16:29:59	Gnarl wrote:
#15 Gnarl Nov 24, 2014 16:51:30	Lawolf wrote:
#16 cowleymen Nov 24, 2014 16:51:35	ankiyavon wrote:
#17 Lawolf Nov 24, 2014 17:03:04	Gnarl wrote:
#18 Lawolf Nov 24, 2014 16:58:12	cowleymen wrote:
#19 ankiyavon Nov 24, 2014 17:28:54	SillyMind wrote:
#20 dmgorgon Nov 24, 2014 18:07:38	Let me say that the openess to house rules on the 5e forums is something I haven't seen on these boards for many years.     It's nice when a house rule isn't seen as an afront to the system in question.       SillyMind wrote:
#21 dmgorgon Nov 24, 2014 20:10:14	I think that pacing should mostly be left up to the players.  In fact, I like it when the number of encounters per day is a function of how lucky the PCs are coupled with their magical resources and the choices they make.     Otherwise, the type of module is really what determines the pace of the game.   Horror and murder mystery types of modules just won't have half a dozen encounters per day.  It's also true for strategic scenarios because they generally leave the number of encounters per day up to the players.   For example, the PCs might use their magic to gain entrace to the keep via the backdoor and avoid several needless encounters.     One thing I'm concerned about is when random encounters during overland travel have no impact at all.   I have to give this more thought because I think that even one encounter per day should deplete or limit resources in some way.    In the past you had to reserve some of your spells for healing.   In fact, a random dragon attack might cause the PCs to travel injured for a few days.
#22 FFSAA Nov 24, 2014 19:38:18	Your module is already long enough and complicated enough I'd just pull Conan off the shelf and use it instead.   You don't have the wizard ability to recover HP or the wizard ability to have a massive spell shield listed.   You can't see the future and make the module cover the magic items coming out in the DMG and future adventures, nor future sub-class and class abilities.
(Reply to #22) SillyMind	FFSAA wrote:
#24 dmgorgon Nov 24, 2014 20:14:01	FFSAA wrote:
#25 Ramzour Nov 25, 2014 3:29:32	draegn wrote:
#26 draegn Nov 25, 2014 7:57:11	Ramzour, true, if you have more options at your table. However there is still a conflict of interest. Would not the archfey ask the paladin why he or she wants to also be a warlock? Would not the archfey ask the paladin if he was happy being a paladin? We try to have consequences for actions and decisions. We enjoy roleplaying these decisions.   While we have never had a paladin change to blackguard we have had a paladin change deities within the same pantheon. The paladin roleplaying being phyiscal sickened by the "War in all its glory and horror"  due to a NPC Knight Prince executing prisoners, switching from service to Mars to serve Venus.
#27 Emerikol. Nov 25, 2014 8:22:16	This would be a system that could work....   1.  No Short Rests at all.   Martial classes that recover powers from a short rest recover them after every encounter.   Magical classes do not. 2.  Long rests are 8 hours and can only occur once per 24 hours.   You regain 1 hit point per long rest.   1+Con for bed rest. 3.  HD are not an expendable resource.  Each class has a HD, use it as defined below. 4.  Add Level x HD of target to any healing spell or spell-like ability cast.  (e.g.  A 3rd level healing spell would do the listed healing plus an additional 3 HD)     The above rules do not in any way necessarily reduce the rapidity of recovery.  They do facilitate the DM making that decision for his own campaign.
#28 Ramzour Nov 25, 2014 13:48:44	draegn wrote:
#29 cowleymen Nov 25, 2014 16:03:53	Lawolf wrote:
#30 draegn Nov 25, 2014 16:36:30	Ramzour the Paladin leans towards good, the warlock leans towards evil. Both have a narrow middle ground that could be covered by the fey. If you have a paladin who took oaths to follow the sky god who then turned to make a pact with the dryad mother, don't you think that either the sky god, dryad mother or both would be asking him about his choices?    This is something our group has decided should be roleplayed out. Other groups might be content to allow a player to build any type of mixmatch character just like someone might build a deck of cards for MtG. We refuse to do that, we refuse to allow it at our table.
#31 ankiyavon Nov 25, 2014 18:26:42	cowleymen wrote:
#32 Helaman Nov 26, 2014 3:02:04	Putting this BACK on topic, heres something some guy (Terquem) has put forward and is using in PbP on the Paizo forums for 5E.   A Short Rest is treated as normal. A Long Rest DOES NOT recover all Hit Points, but does recover all Hit Dice (which can be used immediately, or saved for later). A rest of 24 hours, recovers One Hit Dice worth of Hit Points at maximum roll, in addition to the benefits of a Long Rest.
(Reply to #32) Timborama	Helaman wrote: