How Do Deal Uber Damage
The purpose of this thread is to show the basic ways to deal uber damage in 5E. Most of this is based on actual game play as opposed to theory crafting and crunching DPR in a white room where the opponent. Not all of this is purely my work as I have read the guides in the players help section, number crunching posters, and posters like Lawolf who seem very good at spotting various combinations. These builds as such tend to do unfair things where some players thing having a 20 in a prime ability score and using a big weapon is a decent damage build.
Now some of you have argued with me over how broken various things are mostly my claims around bless and dexterity being overpowered. Some of that depends on the context as I did claim dexterity was over powered in Basic D&D. This may not be the case in PHB 5E but the leading DPR martial candidate that works in real games is dex based so go figure.
In general to deal a lot of damage in 5E you want to
1. Enable multiple attacks. The more the better.
2. Add large damage bonuses to those attacks.
3. Make full use of your reaction and bonus actions.
Fairly basic stuff really and 1 and 2 are common to D&D going back to 1E. Put simply you want to do unfair things in a game kind of built around a narrow band of possibilities. For example you only get 1 bonus action per turn.
The following feats are the basic building blocks for martial types to really abuse the game.
Great Weapon Master
Sharpshooter
Crossbow Expertise
Polearm Master
They all allow extra attacks as a bonus action and/or grant extra damage. I would add another feat to this list.
Warcaster.
This feat helps with concentration rolls, as an added bonus you may even cast a spell occasionally as an attack of opportunity.
The last piece of the puzzle is for spell casters. This seems to be a notorious abuse of the rules and it is one of the highest damage builds in the game and easy to set up. It is the warlock abuse.
2 Levels of Warlock (+eldritch blast, agonizing blast and hex)
This is because every class in the game only gets a maximum of 2 attacks a round with the fighter and eldritch blast being an exception to that rule. The 2 level warlock dip is a great option for various classes but when combined with Sorcerer levels very silly things can happen very fast starting at around level 5. One can also combine the warlock eldritch blast ability with Bard, Fighters and Paladins but doing so offers less nova potential but it is otherwise a great idea especially with action surge.
The main abuse with eldritch blast is metamagic via Sorlock (Sorcerer/Warlock multiclass). The metamagic to use is Quicken Spell and Twin Spell which feeds right back into the multiple attacks comment I made earlier. The Sorlock can also cast warlock spells in Sorcerer spell slots which means lots of hexes being made available. Additionally you can sacrifice spell slots to convert to sorcery points which means more nova damage with eldritch blast. This is kind of like the fighters action surge but it only costs 2 points to quicken a spell or 1 point to twin a twinned eldritch blast. This means the Sorlock can nova more times per day than the fighter. If you get bored of abusing Eldritch blasts you have your normal sorcerer spells available as well for added utility.
To abuse the Soirlock even more a couple of fighter levels can boost the nova damage to truly absurd levels with 3 eldritch blasts being created which is potentially 12 rays or 12 attacks a round with charisma modifier to damage on all of them along with an extra 1d6 damage with hex. You are still probably better off with a basic Sorlock build but if there is a better nova in this game than Sorlock+2 fighter levels I do not know of it.
Hunters Quarry is also an interesting spell for ranger and Paladin types but I regard that as a fair way to deal extra damage and it helps offset the extra attacks fighters get. From level 11+ fighters can get 3 attacks a round, 4 attacks a round with certain feats and sometimes 5 attacks a round. They can also nova via action surge to get 7 attacks a round. They do get a 4th attack by level 20 and a level 20 fighter is the only class that can come close to beating the eldritch blast abuse.
For the martial types the basic combo to deal uber damage is Crossbow Expertise +Sharpshooter feat along with the archery weapon style. Damage looks low at 1d6+ability modifier +magic but it is the +10 damage part that makes it so deadly. Consider at level 11
4 attacks a round 1d6+5 damage or (34 avg damage) assuming 20 dex
4 attacks a round 1d6+15 damage (74 avg damage)
Of course you have to suck up a -5 penalty to hit to do this but you are looking at double damage. Double damage seems to be very unfair in relation to PCs who do not do this. I have claimed feats are more powerful than stat bumps and that is why.
Now that is using ranged options. Melee users can also give this a shot. This requires the feats Polearm Master +Great Weapon Master. Once again at level 11 you are getting 4 attacks a round.
3 attacks 1d10+5 (20 str) avg 31.5 damage
1 attack 1d4+5 7.5 avg damage
Total 39.5 avg damage
With the power attack part of great weapon master damage jumps up to 79.5 avg damage or 82.5 average damage if the 4th attack is a cleave attack instead of a d4 butt strike. Technically the GWM combo deals more damage in practice the dex based build deals more damage due to the +2 to hit and the utility of being able to make ranged attacks as the melee build misses attacks at times due to range.
The strength based build does have one advantage though as the Great Weapon Master feat is good all by itself from level 1 and you are not reliant of being able to soak up a -5/+10 penalty to hit/bonus damage to deal uber damage. The feat also works well enough with nay great weapon build so instead of polearm master feat you could take the sentinel feat. The Polearm Master build will likely get 5th attack a round as a reaction as well due to 10’ threatening reach. What makes the Polearm, GWM and Sharpshooter Feats so good is that they are still great even without the -5/+10 part being used.
The power of these feats and the feat combos mean that the variant human is a very powerful race and you can have 4 feats and/or stat buffs by level 8 as a human fighter. The next way to deal uber damage is work out how to mitigate or neutralise the -5 penalty to hit to abuse the sharpshooter and great weapon master feats. The easiest ways I have found are.
1. Bless spell (also works great with eldritch blasts)
2. Advantage (prone, faerie fire, greater invisibility, foresight etc)
3. Class abilities (bardic dice, war clerics, Diviner portend ability etc)
Consider 2 parties. One party plays fair and takes a stat boost and a cleric and fighter take 20 wisdom and strength each. Party 2 takes 2 feats (warcaster sharpshooter) and party number 2 cleric casts bless which is an abundant resource at higher levels. Party number 1 fighter gets +1 to hit and damage, party number 2 has more or less negated the penalty to hit with the sharpshooter feat (+2 archery style, +2.5 bless) and gets +10 damage per attack. Our DMs tend to use higher AC opponents now (AC 18-20+).
It gets even more lop sided if party number 2 has something like a battlemaster fighter, bard or multiclass fighter/bard that uses the shield master feat which is a good feat all by itself to knock opponents prone and the sharpshooter fighter has the crossbow expert feat. That is why I said feats are better than stat bumps as you can get higher accuracy numbers (advantage, bless) and damage numbers via feats than stat bumps.
So that is more or less the uber damage guide putting together the basics for 5E.
Zardnaar wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
The highest damage in a single turn I have done thus far is a Level 20 Battlemaster Fighter with crossbow expert, sharpshooter, bless, and foresight. Did approximately 175 damage to an Ancient Red Dragon using an action surge and used a lot of menacing strikes. All 9 attacks hit using -5 +10.
Edit: No magic items.
So the blackguard (oathbreaker) is crazy abusable in the right (wrong) hands.
At level 7 they get to add their Charisma modifier to damage. At level 15 they gain resistance to damage from nonmagical weapons.
Assuming 1 short rest every 10 rounds of combat, an oathbreaker can outdamage a fighter from levels 1 - 16 without ever using a single smite spell. If the blackguard uses smites, their damage will solidly trump the fighter's damage all the way up to level 19. Only the fighte'r 4th attack finally allows them to pull ahead.
Now of course, both fighters and paladins receive very little past level 11, so there are some rather fun combinations to be had here.
A Fighter 12 (battlemaster) Paladin 8 (oathbreaker) can do some nasty things. They get 6 ability score increases, Charisma to damage and saving throws, 3 attacks per round, and action surge once per rest.
Now, to really abuse Charisma do Fighter 11, Paladin 7, Warlock 2. Mike Mearls stated that you can learn warlock invocations based on character level rather than class level, so learn the invocation that adds Charisma mod to damage. Now your melee attacks deal 2d6 damage (reroll 1s and 2s), + 5 (Strength mod), +10 Charisma mod, and potentialls an extra d6 (Hex). Not bad. Of course this build only really comes online at 20 and only has 4 ABSIs.
My personal favorite version is Paladin (oathbreaker) 16, Warlock (blade pact) 4. Your damage is 2d6+1d8 (reroll 1s and 2s), +5 (STR), + 10 (CHA), and you have resistance to all damage from non magical weapons. On top of the resistance, you have a lot of spell slots to use for smiting, including recharging warlock slots. On top of that, your opportunity attacks hit like a truck. It's damage is a little less than the others, but it has much more magical utility.
Oh yeah, get the good 'ol Polearm Master feat to maximize your static damage bonuses. Nothing says I love you like 3 or more attacks per round than each deal ~30 damage per hit (before you even include things like Great Weapon Master).
Another one of these threads? You realize you can't win D&D, right Zaardnar?
Everyone has their own style of playing, I get that. Theory craft is fine. Character optimization is fine. Specifically pointing out how to abuse the system is detrimental for every new player and GM that stumbles upon these threads and gets the idea that this is how you play.
-1
Mirtek wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
Nevvur wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
Actually Lawolf, they changed their mind on the official ruling for invocation prerequisites:
http://thesageadvice.wordpress.com/2014/11/04/warlock-invocation-prerequisites/
And it's worth noting that Jeremy Crawford is the person to ask rules questions to, not Mike Mearls:
http://thesageadvice.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/golden-rule-vii/
People keep conflating Invocations and Cantrips, when discussing how they interact with warlock levels. Much to the detriment of lucidity.
ClockworkNecktie wrote:
Tonight was a new one. I had the crossbow expert fighter using -5/+10 all the time hitting more often than not (AC 15-18 eneies) and the Rnager kind of forgot to use it but sucked up the -5 to hit with disadvantage on the roll and still hit (AC 14 gladiators).
Dragon breath is good at breaking bless concentration as it turns out.
How to deal uber damage
1. Get a good number of attacks
2. Get a consistent source of advantage
3. Use buff spells
4. Use Ranged weapons or greatweapons so you can use the -5/+10 feats
5. Add in once per turn damage abilities like sneak attack if you can
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Zard, the sorlock can't twin eldritch blast. Jeremy Crawford already responded to this and twin is only for spells that cannot target multiple targets. Magic missile or scorching ray are disqualified as well for the same reason. Even if a spell is only targeting a single target it does not qualifyto be twinned if it can target multiple targets.
Ashrym wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Timborama wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
With some very non-RAW elements...
Mistwell wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
danyc wrote:
Why did monks get banned in your group Zardnaar? Thematical problems
Zardnaar wrote:
cowleymen wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Miladoon wrote:
Timborama wrote:
Oh please, the typical "Eurocentric" stuff is cheesy and goofy as hell and generally pretty damn inaccurate.
1eejit wrote:
If a eurocentric class that you like can be found in a historical fantasy asian campaign then an asiancentric class you don't like can not be found in a historical fantasy european/colonial campaign.
Gotcha.
Maybe you would like the class if they renamed it Mystic.
DaveDash wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Everyone must play the game my way!
Miladoon wrote:
Thank Zardnaar for those funny threads.
Do you think melee and ranged classes need the -5/+10 to be effective vs full caster?
Do you try a party without these feats?
A light solution for Uber damage is to restrict the -5/+10 to main action. Not allowing it for bonus, reaction or extra action like haste spell.
A drastic solution is to remove the two feats. Feats are optional material. So removing 2 feats should not collapse the entire game balance.
For the Warlock tie the invocation to the Warlock level and put Agonizing blast around level 10 should stop the abuse.
frbelanger wrote: