Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Slit518 Jun 28, 2015 10:28:43	So, whether it's a home-brew or a module, how do you handle the map drawing? Do you pre-draw all the maps so when the players get to that cave with multiple rooms, they see each room, except for maybe secret tunnels and passages? Or, do you draw it bit by bit as they explore? Which is the easiest way?  What streamlines your game more?
#2 Scruffy68 Jun 28, 2015 10:35:35	Slit518 wrote:
#3 Kazadvorn Jun 28, 2015 12:29:22	For 4e, since the tabletop combat is such a big part of the game, I either use pre-printed mapsheets or tiles. If I need something specific, that I can't make-do with any mapsheets I already own, I make copies of the blank gridsheets and pre-draw the maps on them.   If you're going to make a big deal out of room layouts, and use miniatures for detailed combat, and be really accurate about movement rates, ranges and area effects... then it's best to have the mapboards available ahead of time.   As a 5th DM, I leave it up to the players as much as possible. If they get bored, or feel that stopping to draw maps during the game takes too much time, then I'll use pre-made maps. I do prefer to just describe the area while they're 'exploring' and then just map out the specific area when encounters occur. If possible, I prefer to have the players do their own rough mapping - it helps keep them focused on the game.
#4 Marandahir Jun 28, 2015 16:29:21	For most of 4e, I used Opentable, a free RPG pog and virtual tabletop tool operating out of Java. (It had to change its name when the OpenTable Company got going). I would draw out the settings ahead of time, and then we'd move the pogs around as needed. This wouldn't be a strict one to one ratio of pog movements to every movement the heroes made – I'd have maps that were larger scale for hourly and daily travel, but for the most part, we would use the text messaging box inset in the app for discussing the events and the map on the game would only be used for when they were dungeoneering, exploring an adventure site, or in a combat. There was even a function to "hide" details so that I could surprise them – for example, make it so that they couldn't see the layout of the room until someone checked it out, and for me to preload the enemies so they couldn't tell if they were going to attack or not! These days, I tend to use a battle grid with markers and we do a mixture of theatre of the mind and a few pen strokes to show how we move around (I move to this position near the enemies). It's a lot less formal, and works a lot faster. I premake region maps though using Hexographer and dungeon maps with dungeonographer. I don't really need to use others though.
#5 Qzoo Jun 28, 2015 18:57:43	I'll assume this is for face-to-face games.   I use the Paizo flip-maps, usually the basic one, because it is very compact and portable, and easily fits in my bookbag.  That means most of the time I am drawing as I go.  If the map is a large cavern map, or something that has a lot of rough dimensions, I usually begin by drawing a "stick map" in a small corner of the map.  It's just enough to describe different rooms and the hallways that connect to each one, nothing more.  It's all, "sticks and bubbles."   Once the encounter begins, I might draw the room, and possibly the doorway going into it for the players to put their figures to obtain a starting position.   Once the fighting is done in that room, I can erase that, and return to the, "stick and bubbles," map.   If I have complex rooms or maps that would take too much time to draw out during the game, then what I use is one of those large easel paper tablets that you can buy from office stores.  They come with 1" grids already on them (how convenient, right?).  I try to avoid the post-it style sticky ones if I can help it, but not all stores carry the plain gridded paper pads anymore.  Online is your best bet.  Prices can vary a lot though, so be sure to shop around for the best price.   Using those pads, I pre-draw complex maps usually the day before I run.  A cheap set of Crayola markers works great, and the bright colors is a nice change of pace from the usual dry-erase markers.  These paper maps are especially useful for revisiting the same places over and over, like a tavern or inn also.
#6 Slit518 Jun 28, 2015 19:23:51	When I homebrew, I generally draw the maps out over grid paper areas. But when it comes to playing, and exploring, a lot of the times the players like it when I, the DM draw the map on one of those grid, fold out, dry erase Pazio flip-maps. And yeah, when we are playing a module with many of the rooms having encounters or possible encounters, the players want me to draw the room.  They also like to see where they've been, where they are now, and not to mention the players splitting up.   Question, would it be unwise to maybe draw the whole map ahead of time, present it to the players so they can see the layout, and just leave out fine details, such as encounters, traps, and secret rooms/locations?  So they would see this 6 chamber area right off the bat with all these hallways, but they don't know what they contain.  Is that a bad idea?
#7 Qzoo Jun 28, 2015 23:11:17	I think predrawing too many rooms ahead of time reveals too much information too soon.  Player's say they try to avoid metagaming, but that's not easy when the map is right there in front of them.  Why tempt them?   If you are predrawing the entire map, then it is best to cover up areas that haven't been explored yet.   Covering with white paper doesn't work because people can see dark lines through it.  Be sure to use construction paper, or cardstock, or something similar that is less transparent.
#8 Neonflux Jun 29, 2015 0:26:28	I tend to draw maps myself, with grids for use with minis. If it's a large dungeon, I'll do multiple A4 pages, trying to do so in a strategic way that wont reveal too much. Also I try to make it dynamic so that you can see several exits off the first page of the map.    There is always going to be a bit if info given away although you can minimize it. (I'll sometimes use a blank page covering, but mostly I don't bother)   ---   I do have a plastic sheet with grid lines, with the aim that things could be ad-libbed with a white-board marker if need be, but it usually doesn't come to that.   My homebrew worlds main feature is that most cities have been over-run by magical labyrinths that are choking away civilization, so I have a lot of strips of thick cardboard about an inch high that I can just arrange as need be for random encounters within the mazes.   One day I'd like to put up the various maps I've drawn online for other people to download and use, but I just never seem to get around to it.
#9 Rya.Reisender Jun 29, 2015 0:37:41	Real-life play: - Take the whole map (text-free version bought from artist) - Open in a paint program that supports layers - Add a layer above the map layer and paint it all black - Now use the eraser to slowly reveal the map as the group explores - Show map on screen (or print)   Online play-by-post: - I draw the map myself with paint as the group proceeds and publish it (to avoid license problems)
#10 Zardnaar Jun 29, 2015 5:17:50	Usually badly drawn by hand, In the good old days I used hex paper or graph paper.
#11 draegn Jun 29, 2015 6:33:37	On paper for individual players, they always split up. On a black board for when they stick together.
#12 Core-Earth-Stormer Jun 29, 2015 7:53:38	I draw them out on graph paper first then i take the image and recreate it both fractal mapper use the native scenario builder  to do box text , DM Notes,and general map notes then i do a rendering of the map in Campaign cartographer 3.   then i export  a hi-res image which i take into Photoshop and tweak the resolution and overalelimage size the i import thew image into  Maptool or d20pro depending on which game i am playing and apply Fog of war and ereveal as i go
#13 Satyrn Jun 29, 2015 11:17:59	For dungeon crawls, I have drawn out dungeon maps on a series of sheets of printer paper, 1 room or hallway per sheet, and even labelled them with a description.   While doing this for Rappan Athuk, I used the same title that the adventure did so that, foer example, when I plunked one room down it was labellef Invisble Door Trap or sometning like that. A complete giveaway about the challenge there, but other room titles are flavorful and let me skip describing the room, letting the players' imaginations fill in the blanks.   I actually came up with the idea of doing this from this forum, during the debates about whether it's ok for players to know an adventure before playing it. I decided I don't what they know . . . and knowing more might actually be better for them, more fun, because they can focus on the roleplaying instead of the crawling.
#14 OoftaMeg Jun 29, 2015 12:40:25	I have an overal regional map, and will occasionally do quick sketches for smaller area if I think it will help player's understand the layout of a city, castle, estate or whatever locale they are currently interacting with.   Beyond that I draw individual combat areas as necessary, but almost never map out details beyond that.  I'd rather spend my prep time on who, what and why of the adventure than mapping out details of a ruined building.
#15 Imaculata Jun 29, 2015 15:30:40	I draw out all the dungeons, and then cover bits of it up with cartboard/plywood, to show what the players have explored so far.
#16 joeburgos Jun 29, 2015 17:41:06	Slit518 wrote:
#17 Tony_Vargas Jun 29, 2015 22:41:59	You mean draw it out for the players to see?     I can see doing that in 3e, for combats, since having a gridded map would facilitate running the combat, but 5e defaults to "TotM," so you don't need to draw out the battlefield, just describe it.
#18 Rya.Reisender Jun 30, 2015 6:05:35	I don't draw for combat.   But I found that players still have a hard time imagining the dimensions when I don't draw it out for them.
#19 MerricB Jun 30, 2015 18:51:36	Back in the old days (early and mid-80s), I never drew maps for my players. Instead, I'd describe the dimensions and they'd have to draw the maps themselves on graph paper. Back then, we rarely used miniatures.   These days, I often draw the maps for the players myself on 5mm ruled graph paper. (I ran a three-year AD&D game that ended about a year ago and went back to the players having to draw their dungeon maps).   When we use miniatures and battlemats, I draw the dimensions myself (generally a flip-mat and dry-erase marker)... on occasion, out come the Dwarven Forge tiles and we need to do some construction.   I never construct an entire miniature-scale map in advance; it'll alway be constructed/drawn as the players discover it.   Cheers, Merric
#20 BRJN Jul 04, 2015 11:17:59	I've been drawing the map as the PCs enter new rooms.  If the room is irregular (or too big to fit on the mapsheet), I'll show them the map from the book: "You are HERE".   One of my players has an overhead projector and was pre-drawing large-sheet maps for the previous DM.  I think when we get out of the current dungeon, I will ask her to resume doing that.
#21 Kishri Jul 04, 2015 18:05:51	For during tabletop play, I like to use vinyl battlemats.  I draw out the needed parts as they discover them on the battlemat.  That way, the scene is already to scale and all the players have to do is place their minis.  If the dongeon is very complex, I will print out parts of the dungeon and when most that part is explored, I give the handout to the players so they have a reference.   For very simple fights I may go TotM, but for any fight where there can be any question of position, terrain, tactics, AoE's and so on, using minis really helps, and that's why the battlemap.  I use a grid ruled Chesex battlemap that I have had since the mid '80s.  One side is squares (gets used the most these days) = 5' and the back side is hexes (used more back in the 2e era) = 1 meter.  Lot's of good memories with that mat.   For my own use, if I draw out the dungeon/terrain at all, I do it all in Photoshop, giving handouts to the players if needed-- especially true for things like towns and such.  I also freely admit to borrowing other people's maps and floorplans if they suit the need at the time, though I truly do make most of my own stuff-- from simple dungeons & taverns to full on city & world maps.
#22 mrpopstar Jul 05, 2015 7:18:47	I maintain a map behind the screen—so I can accurately describe position, movement, and time—while the players draw a map of their own as they explore and discover.   5th Edition works beautifully this way. It keeps everyone engaged, and it adds some realism for the character who chooses to draw a map as an activity while traveling.
#23 DMOny Jul 06, 2015 11:24:40	On our Dungeon Mastered podcast, we have two seperate campaigns and both use a different approach.  The first, Breaking of Tyrill, doesn't use a world map and in combat or other scenarios where we need to know positioning, we use a hex mat with figurines.  Not much help to you there.   For the second, Everdusk, we use an iOS app called 3D Virtual Tabletop, which is also available on android.  The DM mirrors his iPad on a flat screen using AppleTV to set up and manipulate the world map and combat while the rest of us sit around thinking about how it would have blown our minds back in the early 90's to have been able to do that.     In other words, one campaign goes old school, the other goes new school.  Both work well enough for us, although I don't mind saying that the 3D Virtual Tabletop app sure does make things work a lot faster with a lot less explaination, although the DM has to do more work up front by prebuilding locations that we are likely to go to.
#24 gatewatcher77 Jul 09, 2015 13:42:17	In a real life I use wet erase matts; I actually have two different sizes (big and small) which can be useful   If you're just looking to get the group their barring don't get hung up on scale. Even just a large dot to represent a room, a dice for the group, and lines for possible paths can make quick work of very large maps. Draw full rooms on the side or a second mat if you need to do grid combat or for puzzles.   A few colored lines can go a long way for many maps. Quick encounter on a bridge: 2 blue lines for the water, 2 brown lines for the bridge, a few green lines for the border of trees. Maybe random circles for some obstacles like bushes or a hole in the bridge. If you're counting squares and don't have a specific reason for it you're spending time for not much gain.    In terms of dungeons, buildings, etc I know a lot of players like it drawn out and I don't blame them. "Wait; where was three rooms ago?" is a valid question. I really can't imagine anyone drawing as they go without using a square grid and basic rectangular rooms. Google Cragmaw Castle from Lost Mines and try and draw it on a grid sheet quickly; my group broke for lunch and I ended up covering unexplored areas with paper. You don't need to make the rooms uniform but just having the castle have square towers and straight walls goes a long way. In my opinion a room should take 5 seconds to draw; if you're spending more than 20seconds on a scene you don't intend to spend a lot of game time in maybe rethink the map.   If you do it right you can even delegate drawing "the room is 20 by 40; you enter from the left end of a short side. There is a statue at the far end" is enough for someone else to draw it. This gives everyone else something to think about while the player is drawing it and frees you up to address basic questions or to read box text.     These techniques have one major downside - all your maps will have a similar feel. Colors and a few special rooms can break this up but if your group wants every room to be a specially designed flower then they lose the right to complain about time investment. If they really get annoying have them draw Cragmaw using only your verbal description