You've crafted your campaign, assembled your adventure, established your encounters, and proffered your plot-hooks. The time has come for the Players to leap into action and embark on their noble quests. "What do you do?" you ask.
Three players exchange silent, puzzled glances, waiting for someone else to speak first. The fourth wanders off to chase a shiny piece of tinsel. (Bastards).
What happened? Is it analysis paralysis? Or are they simply too dumb to play this game? Probably, they're confused - they don't know what you want them to do - because you haven't trained them.
For that, we need to examine the Law of Effect and the Thorndike's Cat experiment. By now, you've all heard about Schrodinger's Cat, which was dumped into a box, possibly irradiated, and could be alive or dead - and we don't know which until we open it. Like Schrodinger, Thorndike also put his cat in a box. Sportingly, he included a lever that, when pressed, could open the box's lid. He observed as the cat hissed, yowled, meowed, and eventually pressed the lever and got out. As he repeated the experiment, Thorndike noticed that the cat spend less time doing things that didn't help and eventually learned to just press the lever.
From this, we can conclude that scientists simple LOVE putting their cats in boxes.
We also get the Law of Effect: "Responses that produce a satisfying effect in a particular situation become more likely to occur again in that situation, and responses that produce a discomforting effect become less likely to occur again in that situation.”
Yes, alright, "Duh." But if it's so obvious, why aren't you doing it?
From here out, reward your players for the behaviors you want them to exhibit. And simply don't reward things that aren't useful. Whenever your players decide to pursue a quest, make any kind of meaningful decision, or otherwise engage with the game, Let Them Out of the Box! Or give them an M&M. Or if you're a really good DM, have the rewards relate in some way to what they're doing in-game.
Soon, like Thorndike's cat, they'll quit yowling and hissing, quit doing things that don't provoke a satisfying result, and start doing the things you reward them to do. Who's a good DM? You are. Yes, you are!
I love this post, Brad! Nice use of humor, too. 
Thank you!
One key to this is modding/fudging the system to fit the theme you're going for. If you want the players to do heroic things, don't kill them off when they do. If you want them to display caution, do kill them off when they're not sufficiently cautious. Too often, players get an expectation that they're supposed to be heroic, and feedback that they're supposed to be coniving.
Look at you, handing out advice and science!
On a more serious note, I always appreciate your posts bawylie.
I haven't DMed nearly as much as I'd like, so I'm extremely new to it.
You, iserith, Foxface, and countless others here are my biggest inspirations for the DM I want to be for my players.
If you don't mind, could you give an example of a reward for "good player behaviour"?
I'm wondering what sort of story-related/in-game rewards you'd give out.
I was hoping there would be a version of this post in 3D.
Currently, D&D has us handing out "inspiration" - some kind of tradeable re-roll. And if you're just setting out with DM-ing, this is perfectly acceptable 85% of the time.
XP is a likely candidate, but we tend to award XP after the fact. And the key to reinforcing behavior is to reward it when it happens. So XP is out for immediate rewards most of the time.
That leaves us to things that are appropriate for the circumstances. So I'm gonna have to posit a hypothetical to get into this. Say we've got a mummy in our adventure. It's not a big deal, but it's running around and messing up peoples' day. The players do the usual cleric & fire thing. Cool. But let's say one goes looking for the sarcophagus (if i hadn't put one in before they went looking, I'm putting it in now)! So they find it and try to figure out who the mummy was. Now that's neat. And it demands positive reinforcement. So I'm gonna give it to them. I would litter the sarcophagus with scrolls of protection from evil and symbols that wars against mummy rot. For instance. I might also give the mummy's true name, which, when spoken, automatically "turns" the mummy. (Some crap I just made up).
In any case, since they took the time to engage the game, I'm giving something to show for it.
"Well, what if they're always searching for extra things so they can get benefits?"
GOOD!
Awesome stuff, Brad. If I may, I'd like to ask a tangential question. Namely, do you have any advice on how to get players to engage outside the session itself? I sometimes have trouble getting people in my group to even respond to e-mails and the like, and when I do get responses, they're often along the lines of "I don't care either way. Just do whatever you want to do." 
On a related note, I'm just about to start a new campaign (I'm going to be running Legacy of the Crystal Shard). What kind of incentives can I offer my players to get them to engaged in the game right from the outset, before we've even started playing? Particularly, what incentives can I offer to encourage them to take the time to make their PC an FR character rather than a generic one? I doubt most of my players will know much about the Realms (or at least not anything recent).
Tony_Vargas wrote:
@Pukunui
I use something I stole from Apocalypse World to engage my players outside of the game. It's called Advanced F@%#ery.
Between sessions, I will text each player with a couple of sentences and ask them for a response, then demand they don't share it with anyone else.
It looks like this:
Dear (Pukunui's PC),
Its been a while since you last contacted your mentor. Unbeknownst to you, he's taken a new student. When the next session starts, Roll a Wis check (DC 15). If you succeed, your mentor sends the student to you for further training! If you fail, your mentor sends the student to fight you to test their mettle. Don't tell this to any other players.
Love and Kisses,
Your DM.
Ive also been known to text "flash fiction." A 250 word micro story about the game. Often a behind-the-scenes thing the players couldn't possibly know. A tender moment with the Villain, a Rival's plan, etc.
invite response if you want response (mess with them, in other words).
For or flash fiction, learn to write in the American style. (Merits it's own post)
Interesting. What about getting them to engage in the character creation process?
bawylie wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
I understand that. My larger point, was: Does he tend to take liberties with the players' characters, or stick to establish facts as presented by the players?
ChrisCarlson wrote:
That's cool. I get that. It honestly just surprised me a bit given your stance on agency. I mean, you seem loath to tell a player what their character might know. But you allow yourself to tell them, in a sense, who they are.
Again, for the record, I’m not looking down on it. I even like the idea of this social contract that allows for it. I’m just trying to grok that there is a difference.
sailoroswald wrote:
I'm old school. I simply kill off their PC's until they learn to follow my brilliantly crafted D&D novel.
Awesome thread-starter, Brad.
This is how I got my group of gamers, which I inherited from a power-mad adversarial DM, to stop believing that their characters had to be pushing the boundries of the highest possible total modifiers to have it be worth trying any particular action - I set up challenges for them that assumed well-rounded characters of an overall lower power level, and it didn't take all that long for each in turn to realize they were going from "cake walk that used my few good stats" to "crazy hard encounter that is crazy hard because of character build choices I made" and adapt.
Similarly, in just the few sessions that we have been playing 5th edition, I have already seen them starting to adapt to trying to squeeze role-play into every little thing their character does (as opposed to just role-playing when I prompt them with an NPC, or when the party is deliberating what course of action to take next), because Inspiration is a carrot that they want to snack on.
iserith wrote:
iserith wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
Noon wrote:
It does raise the question on whether the DM should be passive or proactive in their training efforts. From my experience, it is better to place some carrots, gems, or other hooks to entice interest, versus taking the direct approach. I have on occasion offended a player for assuming something about the character, that did not jive with their thoughts.
I don't like the notion of a DM training their players. If your players are new players, then yes, the DM will "teach" them how to play the game. But the DM should be running a game that the players want to play, not molding the players to play the way the DM wants. Like Tony said, actions that are thematic within the adventure genre and tone should be rewarded, but I'm not big on punishing "bad" behavior (this implies willfulness).
Dang, now I have to find a place for the evil NPC "Fantasy Brad" in my campaign.
Elfcrusher wrote:
Very helpful post for me -- so much that it inspired my first post. I'm bringing my family through LMOP. They are new to D&D -- for me it's been about 30 years. We are having fun but I do want to start encouraging them to stretch a bit without "forcing" it on them. Right now there's lots of laughter -- which is great -- and lots of combat. But not much role playing, invention, improvisation, etc. I may even try using XP for instant feedback, though I'll try to be a better DM and go more of your mummy style. Please keep these posts coming as time and inspiration allows....
scrameggs wrote:
When I read this post all I could think was:
DM: "Ok, so you're all there. What do you do now?"
Players: *absolute silence, trade stares*
DM: "C'mon, folks. What you want your characters to do next?"
Johnny: "I... err... enter the tavern?"
DM: "GOOD BOY, JOHNNY!!!"
*hands Johnny a biscuit*
Rastapopoulos wrote:
Orzel wrote:
I'm going to be helping my players learn how to do a proper dungeon crawl with logistics and finding safe places to rest and such.
Also, I'll be teaching myself to run one of those. No previous edition of D&D has made that look like anything but a pain in the next to run; 5e makes it look fun.
More importantly; how do I train my players to give _me_ M&M's? Is killing their characters or yelling at them preferrable? Or should I do both just to get the point across?
All I am asking here is to be petted, loved and spoon-fed candy. Thats not asking much, now is it?
Nice post, Brad! I'll admit it -- I'm more often than not on the side of the PCs when I DM. I want them to succeed, so they can keep going on the adventure I took so much time to put together. So when one of the PCs does something really amazing, I sometimes don't even ask for a roll -- it's one of those "drops mike" sort of things. If it's something I hadn't thought of as a way to deal with the situation, but a) it's totally what the PC would do (they're good at that), b) it's creative and c) it brings applause from the rest of the table, it succeeds. Sure, if I'd asked for a roll it probably would have had only a 25% chance of succeeding, but this way's more fun and tells a better story. This trains the players that if they come up with really cool stuff, it probably works.
Good post, Brad.
Engaging topic and helpful advice. I often run new players and it can be puzzling to someone new to RPGs on exactly what to do during a game. I struggle to give them a sense of agency without overwhelming them with options.
The power of positive reinforcement can quickly help them find great ways to engage and improve the gaming experience. Everyone wins!
SteeleButterfly wrote:
autolycus wrote:
bawylie wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
I hope it's all right to revive the thread; I'm afraid my ability to use the internet is frequently in limbo.
I just wanted to say thanks for the response, bawylie. It's definitely something going into my collection of notes on running a game.
Now while I know a lot of players will go digging on their own (and you can reward them for doing so),
how would you incentivize them to go digging in the first place?
Like in your mummy example. You have one of the players choosing to look for the sarcophagus and you reward them for that.
But what if they don't? How would you entice to go looking?
I know it's a crazy hypothetical to assume that none of your players will ever want to dig into a mystery or attempt that daring escape plan,
but my group will be almost all brand new players and I want them to learn as soon as possible that awesome things get rewarded.
I suppose there's always telling them up front, haha.
bawylie wrote:
bawylie wrote:
sailoroswald wrote:
No offense, but how is this not railroading using a carrot? Why assume any player, even the newest, needs any training? It feels like a thinly veiled "Kids these days" in many ways. Personally, I'd advocate working with the players at the table. Much like a marriage, one must realize they are going to the D&D table with the partner they have, and thinking "I can change them." is just going to lead to a breakup. Using the "cat behavior" example, maybe the odd behavior has drawn attention? Cutpurses love crazy people. Take what the players give you, and work with that.
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Chakravant wrote:
bawylie wrote:
Chakravant wrote:
Electrified chairs is still the best solution.
Player: "I attack the king and" ZZZZZTTT!!"
DM" What was that?"
Player: "I...ummm...tell the king we aren't interest-" ZZZZZTTT!!
DM: "Sorry, come again?"
Player: "...me tell King Quest ... good?"
DM: "The King says 'Well done brave adventurer. Here is a map to the bandits lair.' "
Player: "...i taste pennies..."
Ha!
Tony_Vargas wrote: