Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 TheLyons Aug 14, 2014 7:19:51	NOTE: This isn't meant to be a discussion of what is the "right" or "wrong" way to run alignment. Every game could potentially run it differently and everything is just fine. What is "right" is what works for your table, period!   What I am asking is how will you run alignment at your table? Also, unless you are trying to force your idea of alignment on me, if I like your concepts I just may incorporate some of them in mine.   Here is how I run mine. I doubt anyone will run theirs exactly as I run mine, but if you do, that's pretty cool!   Alignment is more of a philosophical concept. It's like personality theories in today's world (check out Meyers Briggs, or OCEAN, for two real world examples). The main difference is that in my D&D worlds (Planescape, and the most popular prime worlds as well as my homebrew world), the concept of alignment isn't backed up and explored by science.   Alignment will be a common area of study for those with a formal education, and just because you studied it and are well versed in it doesn't mean you believe it (just like personality theory today). I am going to produce in-game materials to help explain the concept to my players, and it will look something like this excellent page. What drew me to him is it looks like he's done a little bit of real world research and tried to link it up as best as he could, which is more than anyone else I've found has done and I may try to expound on this myself later.   In  my games, your characters don't have to have an alignment chosen. If they choose an alignment, it's what alignment their character believes he or she has. Other people could quite possibly believe that player's alignment is different. And even others won't believe in the concept of alignment at all.   In 5e, as you can see, alignment isn't ingrained in the game in most areas. Detect Good and Evil detects demons and celestials and the like. Alignment is somewhat ingrained in the Outer Planes, however (this is arguable, and of course could either be emphasized or totally removed from your games). I am using this to help explain the concept of alignment.   Your actual alignment  "aligns" with one of the outer planes, and those outer planes could quite possibly be where you end up when you die. Exceptions can and will happen. But say your character ended up being a level 20 chaotic good elf, when he dies he very well may end up as a proxy of arborea and games set in the future past this time may well run into him. I've been toying with an idea that the planes don't have the same laws of time, and you might even run into your future proxy self without realizing that's who it is. Still working on it, but that idea has some potential.   In the outer planes itself, the denizons are typically embodiments of that alignment. Demons in the Abyss are the pure embodiment of Chaotic Evil, just like Devils are the embodiment of Lawful Evil, and the denizons of Mount Celestia are the embodiment of Lawful Good. Just because you are chaotic evil doesn't mean you are a demon, or even demon-like, but that your personality more "aligns" with them than most anything else. And as a member of the prime material world, just because you are chaotic evil today doesn't mean you'll be that forever. One could potentially go from chaotic evil to lawful good, but that's a hell of a larger jump than say going from chaotic evil to chaotic neutral. Still possible.   In the Abyss, almost every single demon is straight up Chaotic Evil. However, in the prime worlds you can run into an evil gold dragon, or a good red dragon. In theory, there could be a non-chaotic evil demon, but if I ever made one it would be for pure story reasons and only if I came up with a hell of a compelling story that the players could potentially interact with. And that non-chaotic evil demon probably wouldn't be on the Abyss anymore. Just like rogue modrons when they turn rogue typically aren't straight up lawful neutral anymore or they probably wouldn't have been able to turn rogue.   I also like the idea that characters can have in-game discussions about alignment, is it real, what is your alignment, etc. I would imagine they may believe it more when they visit the outer planes, but then again, they may believe it less. There is also the concept in Sigil of are the outer planes themselves proof that alignment exists, or were the outer planes created by the pervasive belief in alignment? And though the players don't know this, no one in the multiverse of my games has this answer, no power has it, nothing has it. There's no way to find it. It's like learning the history behind the Lady of Pain, she's a lot less mysterious and fun of a concept if she's fully explained. Part of the fun is the mystery, and the desire to understand the mystery. Once you learn how a magic trick works, it loses much of it's awe.   What do you think? And more importantly, how do you run yours?
#2 tallric_kruush Aug 14, 2014 7:41:27	Cool ideas for a setting specifically suited to it.   We ignore alignment in our games. We judge good and evil much the way people do in everyday life. The law v. chaos spectrum we really couldn't care less about, typically. It doesn't enter into our games.
#3 Kiraya_TiDrekan Aug 14, 2014 7:45:01	Regardless of edition, I have always run alignment as being more about cosmology and less about the individual.  Thus, detect evil has only ever worked on fiends and creatures and objects with alignment "descriptors" in my campaigns.  The assassin in the corner in the tavern thus wouldn't register as evil, but the succubus disguised as the dancer on stage would, as would the angel-slaying dagger the assassin is carrying.   With that in mind, I have recently been reading the earliest D&D products and find myself wanting to explore a campaign where alignment is an actual force in the universe, constantly at war, that forces heroes and villains to choose sides.  Thus the commoners wouldn't necessarily have an alignment but anyone above 5th level or so would have to choose a "side" in the endless cosmic battle of law vs chaos, good vs evil.  If you don't choose, you don't get to go to any afterlife.  Sort of like earning one's way to Valhalla.  The greatest of mortal warriors earn the right to become celestials or fiends or whatever upon death.  Of course, some sort of victory would have to be possible for the PCs, otherwise it wouldn't be much of a motivator.
#4 Chimerasame Aug 14, 2014 7:55:57	When I've DMed, I've left alignment entirely up to the purview of the players to decide to what degree they want to write it on their sheets. I'm totally cool with   - Writing one of the nine - Writing "Unaligned" - Leaving it blank - Writing "Lawful Good for church law, Chaotic Good for other law"   everyone has their own interpretation. I don't want anyone to feel restricted by this 'stat', it should either help their vision of their character, or, at worst, should simply do nothing.   The only time it ever matters outside the player's own roleplaying, is if there's some in-game mechanical effect that hinges on alignment, and I find those to be pretty rare. When it comes up (for a divine class spell/ability, which. I think, is most of them. thankfully), I would probably adjudicate in such a way that it works based on the way the god granting the spell/ability perceives the alignment of the target.   It's a bit tougher for Arcane (or other non-divine), I'd probably just deal with that if/when I came to it.
#5 JohnLynch Aug 14, 2014 8:00:31	I don't focus on alignment at all. People behave as their personality dictates while observing to one degree or another the teachings of at least one deity. When you die you end up in the dominion of your god if they'll take you, or the dominion of any god who'll take you if your chosen god rejects you.   The closest anyone in my campaign setting comes to observing an alignment are those who practise the philosophy known as Navitism.   Navitism is the belief of the divinity of the plane of positive energy and the plane of negative energy. It is taught that these two planes are the wells from which all of existence springs from, even the gods, angels, demons and devils. Clerics channel the energy from one of these planes through the gods who act as conduits. It is believed mortals cannot safely channel these energies directly and so must go through the gods.   Navitists believe that at the end times all those who lived good lives will return to the world as beings of pure energy while those who lived evil lives will come back as undead. It is said those who lived truly neutral lives will be shunned and end up in a purgatory.   whether or not Navitism is authentic or just something a crackpot made up is anyone's guess.
#6 JohnLynch Aug 14, 2014 8:00:32	I don't focus on alignment at all. People behave as their personality dictates while observing to one degree or another the teachings of at least one deity. When you die you end up in the dominion of your god if they'll take you, or the dominion of any god who'll take you if your chosen god rejects you.   The closest anyone in my campaign setting comes to observing an alignment are those who practise the philosophy known as Navitism.   Navitism is the belief of the divinity of the plane of positive energy and the plane of negative energy. It is taught that these two planes are the wells from which all of existence springs from, even the gods, angels, demons and devils. Clerics channel the energy from one of these planes through the gods who act as conduits. It is believed mortals cannot safely channel these energies directly and so must go through the gods.   Navitists believe that at the end times all those who lived good lives will return to the world as beings of pure energy while those who lived evil lives will come back as undead. It is said those who lived truly neutral lives will be shunned and end up in a purgatory.   whether or not Navitism is authentic or just something a crackpot made up is anyone's guess.
(Reply to #3) TheLyons	tallric_kruush wrote:
#8 iserith Aug 14, 2014 8:02:37	At the end of the session during the breakdown, I will pose the following to players: "Do you believe you acted in accordance with your alignment as outlined on page 34 of the Basic Rules? If so, explain how and earn Inspiration. If you don't believe you acted in accordance with your alignment, you can change your alignment to something else that better fits, at your option." Then go around the table and see what everyone says. The DM nor other players may judge someone's response.
#9 malisteen Aug 14, 2014 8:13:28	When I run, my rules for alignment are "don't deliberately make trouble for the party, whether direcly (by attacking/stealing from party members) or indirectly (by trying to take dumb actions that would obviously get the party in trouble, like attacking the queen during an audience or murdering random citizens for fun or yelling loudly and without reason while the party is trying to be stealthy), or your character suffers an unexpected heart attack and dies instantly with no save.  Exceptions will be made only for party-detrimental actions that have been cleared with the DM beforehand, generally via private communication"   ie, if you want to role play the traitor in the party, we can work that out (though your character sheet will probably be stolen to run as an npc when/if you get revealed), but do not troll the campaign by unexpectedly sabotaging your own party for the lulz.   Other than that, write whatever you want on the alignment line, and just try to play your character according to their personality and goals as you described in traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws.
#10 Luis_Carlos Aug 14, 2014 8:18:57	I have got my own house rules about aligment.    I have added the allegiance from d20 Modern, and I allow spells or powers with aligment key can hurt enemies with same aligment but different allegiance (for example religion).    My law-chaos axis is different. I allow caothic characters can be so honorable and disciplined like lawful ones, but it isn´t the priority if it isn´t the allegiance. Caothic aligment wouldn´t anarchy but more like minarchism... only loyalty for allegiance (tribe, cult, family). Only their "karma" is too atunned to primal forces (druids, rangers, barbarians, shamans..) or againts lawful foces.
#11 Dark_Stryke Aug 14, 2014 8:28:19	When running for a new group, I outlined the 9 alignments and tried to give an example of a character who might be of that alignment (eg "Robin Hood is Chaotic Good because [reasons]"). I told them that alignment is a useful tool to help envision your character, but has no in-game effect. With the addition of traits, flaws, bonds, and ideals, I think it's going to be much easier for people to really get a handle on their characters in 5E.   If someone had written down Lawful Good on their character sheet, and proceeded to play in a manner more befitting a Chaotic Neutral character, I might mention it at the end of the session if it seemed to be becoming a trend. I wouldn't force an alignment change on them, just say something like "hey, when you did X, Y, and Z, I thought that was more like what a chaotic character might do." And from there open up a dialogue with the player about how and why he thought his actions were LG. Or maybe he'd just agree and switch alignments. Who knows?
(Reply to #9) TheLyons	malisteen wrote:
#13 kev777 Aug 14, 2014 8:47:54	In my game, players will be rewarded inspiration for role playing their alignment well.
#14 TheLyons Aug 14, 2014 8:49:46	I do like the idea some have thrown out about inspiration for playing alignment well. That's a really cool idea.
#15 Kiraya_TiDrekan Aug 14, 2014 8:53:16	TheLyons wrote:
#16 AaronOfBarbaria Aug 14, 2014 9:01:52	Me as DM, to my players as they are making characters: "Throw an alignment down on your sheet - pick one that you think fits to your character's core outlook and motivation, but keep in mind that it has pretty much zero impact on the game beyond helping you to remind yourself how you wanted your character to be"
(Reply to #15) TheLyons	Kiraya_TiDrekan wrote:
#18 AH_schulerta Aug 14, 2014 9:15:11	My players can write whatever they want on their sheet for alignment. I frankly don't care what they write and I will never ask them what they wrote. There will not be any Detect/Protection from/Dispel  Evil/Good spells or abilities.
#19 Mechatarrasque Aug 14, 2014 9:18:35	I run law vs chaos differently than most people.  Law means you would prefer to be led by someone with a social role connected to leadership (king, elected president, pope, general).  Chaos means you think the leader should be someone with a particular attribute (biggest, strongest, smartest, best at magic).  Neutral on the LC scale for the most part means you don't care as long as everything is going fine.  Good and Evil are usually related to Big Acts--most PC's have to work pretty hard to get one or the other.  You can be a jerk, but if you close a Hellmouth and save an orphanage from being foreclosed, you are still Good.  The size of the Act is related to your level/power in the world, so a dirt farmer could be Good for an act that wouldn't count for a 15th level PC.   When you die, you go to one of the 8 big realms on the Wheel.  There are transition zones between the realms where 3rd level or higher (or 4 HD or higher) types can end up.  The 3rd level or higher/4 HD or higher types become Outsiders.  Most everyone else becomes a petitioner.  Outsiders are the army of the realm, and petitioners are treated appropriately for the alignment (much better to be good).  Some petitioners become Outsiders shortly after arriving, and sometimes (rarely) violent acts done around them by people of another alignment can cause them to change into Outsiders as well (half the reason for the Blood War is that devils and demons are trying to convert large portions of their petitioners into Outsiders).  A few individuals are claimed by the gods (regardless of alignment), but it is actually draining on the gods to do so, and if you are on Mt. Celestia, does it matter if you are hanging out with Bahumet or not?   Unaligned and Neutral souls are the prize at an Olympic type event (albeit with more combat).  The Outsiders can't compete directly, but they can empower paladins (true believers in the alignment) and warlocks (picked because they are seen as having a good chance at winning).  The only way the paladin or warlock can lose their power is if they fail to show up at the Olympics.  Getting power from an evil alignment isn't Evil, but competing in the Olympics for them is an Evil Act.
#20 Dark_Stryke Aug 14, 2014 9:30:11	I read the article that the OP linked, and it's a pretty good read. It got me thinking about the interactions between alignment and ideals so I quickly wrote this up (credit to TheLyons for linking the article, and the author, whose name I can't seem to locate).   Alignment and Ideals Alignment has no in-game effect, but choosing an alignment may help shape your character's personality, ideals, flaws, and bonds. Below are nine possible ideals and their associated alignments. Picking one of these ideals for your character does not necessitate picking its associated alignment. A character whose values are in conflict with his or her personality could be all the more interesting to play. A character with the ideal of Ascendency may nevertheless be Chaotic Good, attempting to assume a position of power only relectantly.   Integrity (Lawful Good) - We must be helpful, forgiving, honest, and benevolent to one another to create a world of peace and security. Mercy (Neutral Good) - We must transcend our selfish interests and work towards the happiness of others, as well as ourselves. Liberty (Chaotic Good) - We must help one another pursue our goals in order for each of us to choose, create, and explore independently. Autonomy (Chaotic Neutral) - I must master myself in order to grow and change as a person. Everyone should have the right to choose their own path, as I do. Luxury (Chaotic Evil) - I seek to experience life to the fullest. Nothing matters to me but my own personal pleasures. Supremacy (Neutral Evil) - I desire both personal success and social status. Those who are superior achieve the most, and their successes demand recognition. Ascendency (Lawful Evil) - Uncertainty is the bane of an ordered society. Only when I am in control will we be truly safe. Harmony (Lawful Neutral) - Tradition and stability are the foundations of society. We must work in unison to preserve them from anarchistic influences. Equity (True Neutral) - My values and beliefs are my own. I stand for myself, and expect others to do the same.
(Reply to #20) TheLyons	Dark_Stryke wrote:
#22 Orethalion Aug 14, 2014 10:41:53	TheLyons wrote:
#23 Brightmantle Aug 14, 2014 11:27:15	We will be playing with alignment as presented as a general guideline rather than a strait jacket. I as a Dungeon Master always attempt to make crystal clear my perception of the alignment system and each of the alignments as to make the expectation of general interpretation very clear. This is key when playing with alignments (Being on the same page) . Each person at the table may have very different ideas of morality and life experiences that shape their views in the real world. In my campaign however, the "alignment system" conforms to the book as defined and understood by me. Straying form the guidelines a bit is acceptable and realistic (constistant with life) trying to move the goal posts of alignment though will avail you not in my game. It's a gamist concept to guide one on their path rather than a "rail ride" from which you cannot stray. You as a player choose your alignment and you can change your alignment if you wish (it's a non issue) through your roleplay. You cannot however: change the definition of alignment once it is defined by me. Happy gaming folks.
#24 Slyck314 Aug 14, 2014 11:33:33	In my games the alignment axis is a fundamental part of the cosmology,  The tighter to the cosmology you are tied the tighter to the alignment axis you are tied.  Gods and other being of the Outer Planes are fairly one and two dimensional.  PC races have a lot more freedom, but if they start attaching themselves to the power of the cosmos they find themselves more and more restricted.
#25 Qmark Aug 14, 2014 11:55:35	Let the players decide how much roleplay weight their own alignments carry Use it as a rough roleplay-guide for NPCs Use it a damage-type-ish keyword in combat, when relevant Generally ignore it otherwise
#26 TheLyons Aug 14, 2014 12:06:23	I am really enjoying the variety of responses here, but we also share a lot of similarities. I could be wrong here, but it seems like no one wants it to be a straight-jacket railroad of required actions, and it's pretty cool WotC figured that out and appears to treat it as such as well.
#27 Lawolf Aug 14, 2014 12:15:21	As a player, I just leave it blank.    As a DM, I focus more on my players wants, desires, dreams, personality, and flaws than what their alignment says on their character sheet.
#28 Brock_Landers Aug 14, 2014 12:54:57	Depends entirely on the campaign I am running, in one campaign it might be ignored completely, but in my Planescape campaign it is of paramount importance; I might even bring back Alignment languages!
#29 ChrisTheS Aug 14, 2014 13:24:49	Ever since d20 Modern, I've used allegiance instead of alignment (with alignments being a form of allegiance if the player wants).
#30 Rottle Aug 14, 2014 13:35:26	back in the day I gave out a rating as to how well I think your portrayed your character, stated alignment made a big difference here, a number 1 to 4.  1 the best 4 the worst.  You multiplied that by the cost for training to a new level and it was also the number of weeks it took you to train as well.   Did this for a number of years, we don't do it often any more but will be in our new campaign, by player request, they built the framework for the setting and basically it is as someone else stated a constant war between good and evil, law and chaos.   The powers that be punish and reward their chosen champions even if their champions don't know they have been chosen.     Not sure the system we will use but basically it's going to cost 2k gold per level to be trained to per week needed to train based on rating.   Anyway that works for your table is a good system to me.
#31 Xeviat-DM Aug 14, 2014 14:44:02	I seem to be the opposite of most people here. I like alignment. In my games, I describe alignment as what gives your characters the warm fuzzier and what makes them feel bad. Beware, analogies to follow. Let's say that killing sentients is evil (ignoring undead and fiends); I wouldn't go this far in a game, but it serves as an analogy. If you are of good alignment, you will feel bad after killing, even if you can justify it to yourself (it was self defense, they were going to kill my family, it was justice, it was for the greater good ...). If you are of evil alignment, you will feel good after killing someone (he got what was coming to him, better him than me, the strong survive and the weak perish ...). If you're neutral, you can justify it to yourself easily; if you're true neutral, anything but neutral acts will make you feel bad. How does this fit into mechanics? Well, since alignment is part of the Social Pillar, I want it to give social bonuses and penalties. These penalties serve to reward players to play to alignment, and incentivize them away from being out of alignment. If the needs of the campaign have your Good Fighter constantly having to kill, continuing the above example, the player may talk to the DM about changing their alignment to neutral so they don't have to keep suffering penalties. After more time, they may find it beneficial to switch to evil to gain those bonuses. Switching alignment would require time. It may be a few wisdom or hairs ma saves during down time, or it could involve a social penalty during play till it has run its course (representing an existential crisis). Yes, this is very gamist, but we are playing a game, no? This has alignment defined as much by what is rewarding to you as what is painful to you.
(Reply to #31) TheLyons	Xeviat-DM wrote: