I don't like inspiration & here's why - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Thank_Dog Oct 19, 2014 3:35:28	I don't mind the mechanics of it. It's very hero pointy. I'm all for that. And I get the concept behind it and on the surface I approve of its purpose. However, the reality is that it doesn't serve to work towards its intended goal. It ends up with a bit of a cobra effect occurring in games. This occurs because most DM's simply forget about inspiration. That is, until a player does something completely outrageous and over the top that it makes them remember it. This in turn promotes outrageous and over the top characterisation in order to earn inspiration. Some may call this fun. And in some cases, it can be funny, but it can also get tiresome when it serves to constantly disrupt play when all the PC's end up becoming chaotic neutral. More lawful, less disruptive players who may very well be playing to their ideals, flaws, and bonds perfectly, simply don't attract enough attention or don't do anything outrageous enough to make the DM notice. In essence, it punishes good roleplaying and promotes silly roleplaying. Has anyone else found this to be the case?
#2 AaronOfBarbaria Oct 19, 2014 3:41:40	No. I pay as much attention to my players' inspiration giving traits as I can, keeping the noted on a sheet in front of me, and encourage my players to point out when they think they or another player should earn inspiration. Basically, we have adapted how we play to the new rules.
#3 OrwellianHaggis Oct 19, 2014 4:11:03	Quite the opposite in terms of silliness. Two of my three players made no attempt to roleplay before 5e and the Inspiration mechanic, even during the play test. Now they try. For example, one player used the rogue pregen for our trial of LMoP, and she was constantly pointing out her relationship to NPCs in regards to the Redbrands. Another player opened up a whole new possible quest line using her Ideal. I can see why silly players might overshadow someone playing to Ideals, Flaws and Bonds, but that's a problem with the silly player, not with the Inspiration mechanic.
#4 Monsieur_Moustache Oct 19, 2014 4:17:36	Yes. Good points distribution is disruptive on many level, including the simple fact that D&D is a game. We can reward or punish players through the adventure, or more exactly their characters. By using RP mechanics, we promote the player above the character, and the the player plays the DM instead of the adventure (the diva players love RP mechanics). It was already a problem with the White Wolf games.
#5 spelley Oct 19, 2014 6:31:52	I found that it works really well for my new players. It encouraged them to pick RP over metagaming a couple times. Once they got in the swing of things I usually just offered to apply the Advantage/removed Disadvantage from the RP action itself as that encouraged things just as well.
#6 iserith Oct 19, 2014 6:47:48	You could try taking a page from Dungeon World as I have done and award Inspiration as part of the "End of Session Move." I find this particular move very useful because it gets the group talking about the events of the session. Knowing what stands out to the players is great information for the DM and this is also a way to spark conversations about character relationships and development. When you reach the end of a session, reduce your Inspiration to 0. Choose one of your character's traits, ideals, bonds, or flaws that you feel you demonstrated well during play and describe it. Then mark Inspiration. Next look at your alignment and compare it to the alignment descriptions on page 34 of the Player Basic Rules. If you feel you demonstrated your alignment well during play, describe it and then mark Inspiration. Now, think about your relationships with the other characters. Choose one of your relationships that you feel is resolved (completely explored, no longer relevant, or otherwise). Ask the player of the character you have the relationship with if they agree. If they do, mark Inspiration and write a new relationship with whomever you wish. Then answer these three questions as a group: Did we learn something new and important about the world? Did we overcome a notable monster or enemy? Did we loot a memorable treasure? For each "Yes," give details then mark Inspiration. Normally, you can only have one Inspiration at a time. For this house rule, you can have as much Inspiration as your proficiency bonus. Just remember to spend 'em during play!
#7 spelley Oct 19, 2014 7:01:40	Note that while people may have reservations about Inspiration, I'd like to state that the Personality Traits, Ideals, Bonds and Flaws as even just a shorthand reminder for my newer players has been absolutely perfect. Whether you hang mechanics off it (or indeed should) is up for debate but it helps SO MUCH in answering the "what would my character do" question for new players.
#8 Polaris Oct 19, 2014 7:06:21	Thank_Dog wrote:
#9 sleypy Oct 19, 2014 7:06:52	I hand out inspiration at the end of a scene.I want to reward roleplaying thorugh a encounter not for a single action or one liner.
#42 cassi_brazuca Oct 19, 2014 16:01:44	Thank_Dog, if this was for me, I appreciate your effort, but I think this is pointless. Cyber-Dave, I couldn’t have been clearer to you. It is pretty simple, actually: this mechanic wants to give mechanical effects (possibly combat related) to what the DM considers to be “good roleplay”. So, the case of “You’re going to have advantage in this attack roll because of the speech you did last week, and for no in-game reason” is real. It’s right into the mechanic. Convince me how that’s not meta-game, playing the DM and such. Well, you must have missed the huge quantity of actor-style players that tells to other players “You’re playing it wrong, this is not the true RPG; true RPG is (insert theater play here)” and such. Tired of it. Really tired. Wanting to have combat bonuses because of better acting is akin to “I’m right, I’m right: you’re playing it wrong”. It’s pretty simple: people shouldn’t RP because of combat bonuses. I have nothing against people who want to focus on roleplay, just don’t put any game rules that tries to make you superior just because.
#43 Azzy1974 Oct 19, 2014 16:39:19	Since, at least, the 80s DMs of D&D have used bonus XP to award players for good roleplaying, clever ideas, benefitting the PC's party, etc. Other TRPGs have done this and/or expannded upon this with game mechanics that specifically reward players for certain types of play. These sorts of things have been responded to well my the TRPG community and that's why they keep cropping up in new games and newer editions of old games. It may not be your bag, but it's here to stay.
(Reply to #42) Azzy1974	cassi_brazuca wrote:
#45 Cyber-Dave Oct 19, 2014 17:02:20	cassi_brazuca wrote:
#46 Noon Oct 19, 2014 17:07:20	Thank_Dog wrote:
#47 Rhenny Oct 19, 2014 17:21:51	Azzy1974 wrote:
#48 Thank_Dog Oct 19, 2014 19:09:00	Azzy1974 wrote:
#49 Shasarak Oct 19, 2014 19:23:16	Noon wrote:
#50 AaronOfBarbaria Oct 19, 2014 21:18:06	Thank_Dog wrote:
#51 Neonflux Oct 19, 2014 21:58:35	My group of players are all pretty much new to the game (apart from playing once 20 years ago in highschool sorta thing) In the 2 sessions I've run we haven't really used Inspiration, although I'm not against it, it's more a case of, with new players they already have enough to keep track of while learning the game. I might re-visit this though, we made the charcters with just the starter pack, which I felt had a few things missing. Also some of the players that used the pre-gen characters from that box crossed out their given background and wrote things like 'hunter' which doesn't really mean much to anybody. I always used to give bonus XP for good roleplaying, which I think can work and is probably a more desirable reward as well for players. It really depends on your players, and what works. If it does encourage roleplay than all the better, if it just turns into another thing for the players to meta-game than it can easily be dropped. Like I say, so far I've yet to really keep it mind when running the game (coming back form a 10 year break, I'm easily overwhelmed during sessions so far) but I am finding I need to do something to try and get my group roleplaying more, other than just the rouge in the party trying to steal from everyone and then declaring 'I'm just roleplaying my character'
#52 BW0222 Oct 19, 2014 23:30:59	Thank_Dog wrote:
#53 Thank_Dog Oct 20, 2014 0:12:09	I've decided that in games that I run that I won't be using the default method of Inspiration. However, I still like the mechanical aspect of it so I'm going to simply say that you get one Inspiration point per adventure. By adventure I mean per primary story goal reached/achieved. In the case of HotDQ, this would be per Episode. You start with one, and gain another one at the end of the Episode. But you can still only ever have it or not have it, so if you haven't used it in the Episode, you don't get an additional point. I think this encourages players to save it up for "the big move" or when they're desperate and need to pull out a win instead of trying to game the system and the DM. Roleplaying shouldn't be forced and I feel this method of giving Inspiration for roleplaying only serves to diminish roleplaying and not enhance it. This also means that the shier, or less experienced players aren't punished and those who can game the DM and the system don't get any extra benefit above those who don't, won't or can't.
#54 Diffan Oct 20, 2014 0:47:21	As the group's primary DM, I have to say that I like the mechanic overall. Hereare some reasons why: 1) we already role-play, so getting a benny for something we already do is just icing on the cake. 2) it helps new players get into character more. 3) it gets mechanical-inclined players to role-play, even if it is just for the benny. 4) its just advantage, nothing ridiculous or grossly over-powered. I mean can we say yawn? Sure, it's nice but not something we honestly care that much about in the long run.
#55 Kishri Oct 20, 2014 1:36:50	As Azzy1974 pointed out these systems have come and gone over the years. The reason they go away is that there is no good way for any DM, or group of players if their input is accepted, to be fair or be perceived as fair on a consistent basis over a long period of time. The result is such systems generally degenerate into popularity contests and/or they foster arguments. All that it takes is one player to say, "How come he got one, but I didn't?" From that point on, the system designed to encourage roleplay becomes a bone of contention. Even if the DM is completely fair; the dissenting player trully did not earn the award in this case, the offended player will feel punished. He will remember this and will continue to grouse after every non favorable instance. This behavior is contagious. The RPGA used a similar system during the Raven's Bluff era. The DM could award points and perks based upon superior play. The players could also bestow perks upon their fellow players via an end of the game vote. The system was dumped due to the popularity contests and arguments it generated. As a DM for 5e, the Inspiration Point System is the part of the game I fear the most. I haven't had a problem yet, but I dread the day a player will get mad because he didn't get one, or thinks another player doesn't deserve one. I just don't need that headache, and I know it is coming because in the 38 years I have been playing RPGs I have never seen a Role Play Incentive based award system not generate complaints, especially the longer the game is played. Human nature always sees to that and it is just a matter of time. Until that time, I will continue to hand them out liberally in ways I feel fair, knowing that being fair is merely an opinion of consensus. When that inevitable loss of consensus occurs, the Inspiration system becomes optional-- as in I opt out.
#56 GhostStepper Oct 20, 2014 1:48:21	Noon wrote:
#57 Diffan Oct 20, 2014 1:52:19	Kishri, if a player says that I simply say "because I say so" and if they have a problem with that, no ones forcing them to stay and there's the door. But, in reality, if people are THAT petty over Advantage then they're probably people that your not going to like playing with regardless.
#58 Noon Oct 20, 2014 1:54:45	Thank_Dog wrote:
#59 Shasarak Oct 20, 2014 2:15:47	Kishri wrote:
#60 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 2:36:12	Thank_Dog wrote:
#61 abs1nth Oct 20, 2014 2:39:15	Kishri wrote:
#62 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 2:41:14	Polaris wrote:
(Reply to #55) Azzy1974	Kishri wrote:
#64 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 2:44:58	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #63) Kishri	Azzy1974 wrote:
#66 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 3:11:08	Thank_Dog wrote:
(Reply to #61) Kishri	abs1nth wrote:
#68 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 3:18:13	Thank_Dog wrote:
(Reply to #64) AaronOfBarbaria	Ramzour wrote:
#70 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 3:38:02	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #70) AaronOfBarbaria	Ramzour wrote:
#72 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 4:03:30	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#73 AaronOfBarbaria Oct 20, 2014 4:22:46	Ramzour, I get your joke... but what part of you making a joke means I can't respond with my own joke and/or related thoughts?
#74 Thank_Dog Oct 20, 2014 4:44:48	Ramzour wrote:
#75 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 5:01:00	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#76 autolycus Oct 20, 2014 5:52:22	As a DM I do feel some pressure to always catch everything said by every player, which is not an easy task. If I miss something said by one player that is inspiration-worthy but reward something said by another it could be seen as unfair. I like the suggestions here where the players give out inspiration to each other from a limited pool per session.
#77 iserith Oct 20, 2014 6:01:50	Having read all the complaints in this thread, I do believe that the system I posted upthread will work to solve most of them. By awarding Inspiration at the end of the session for use in the following session, you take away all the DM monitoring during play, the players "self-police," and it incentivizes good play. What's more you can hack it to change the questions depending on your game and preferences as a group. If you run a horror game, for example, you could just change the types of questions to things like "Did you make an obviously stupid decision like the characters in a horror movie do?"
#78 Polaris Oct 20, 2014 6:04:51	Diffan wrote:
#79 Polaris Oct 20, 2014 6:11:28	Ramzour wrote:
#80 Plaguescarred1 Oct 20, 2014 6:32:11	I really like the inspiration mechanic as a reward to roleplay your character. Works well for us!
#81 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 6:35:53	Polaris wrote:
#82 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 6:40:59	autolycus wrote:
#83 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 6:56:00	iserith wrote:
#84 iserith Oct 20, 2014 7:01:03	Ramzour wrote:
#85 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 7:17:56	iserith wrote:
#86 Orethalion Oct 20, 2014 7:19:53	GhostStepper wrote:
#87 iserith Oct 20, 2014 7:29:11	Ramzour wrote:
(Reply to #78) Diffan	Polaris wrote:
#89 Theros Oct 20, 2014 7:50:38	iserith wrote:
#90 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 8:22:52	iserith wrote:
#91 iserith Oct 20, 2014 8:28:51	Ramzour wrote:
#92 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 8:41:31	iserith wrote:
#93 iserith Oct 20, 2014 8:47:55	Ramzour wrote:
#94 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 9:06:48	iserith wrote:
#95 BecDeCorbin Oct 20, 2014 9:09:00	The problem with role-playing games is all the role-players... Really? I don't buy the argument that Inspiration is a poor mechanic because it relies on DM decision making and is, thus, inherently corrupt. If the idea of a DM making decisions frightens you, I don't think D&D is your game. Too much relies on it--what encounters the PCs face, the motivation and tactics of monsters and NPC, treasures found, how to adjudicate situations, and on and on. It is a game of DM and player cooperation by design. If a player is being disruptive in an effort to gain Inspiration, it's up to the DM and the group to encourage the player to not be disruptive. If the DM is playing favorites, it's up to the players to convince the DM of his folly and encourage him to do better. D&D is a social game and requires some rudimentary social skills. It's not neurorocketry, people. The Inspiration mechanic encourages players to think about the personality traits of their characters--to see them as characters rather than 'builds'. For most campaigns and players, that can only be a good thing. The fact that you can only have one at a time means it will have a relatively minor effect in most games (maybe once or twice a session). That sounds pretty innocuous to me. I also don't see Inspiration as a strictly meta-game resource. I think it's just what it says on the tin: inspiration. By following your personality traits (being true to yourself), you gain the confidence or determination to dig deep when pressed to possibly succeed where you might otherwise fail. It's an abstract mechanic (like hit points), but not-necessarily one that has no game fiction component.
#96 iserith Oct 20, 2014 9:20:21	Ramzour wrote:
#97 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 9:58:41	iserith wrote:
#98 iserith Oct 20, 2014 10:11:18	Ramzour wrote:
#99 GhostStepper Oct 20, 2014 10:12:33	Orethalion wrote:
#100 Gnarl Oct 20, 2014 10:31:23	Thank_Dog wrote:
#101 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 10:45:16	iserith wrote:
#102 iserith Oct 20, 2014 10:53:19	Ramzour wrote:
#103 Gnarl Oct 20, 2014 11:06:21	Ramzour wrote:
#104 iserith Oct 20, 2014 11:12:14	Gnarl wrote:
#105 MykeSchultz Oct 20, 2014 11:47:08	I don't quite know how I feel about Inspiration. So far, for 5ed, I've only played in organized play, and the DM has yet to award it. I don't know if she just forgets, or doesn't like the mechanic, or she thinks no one has earned it. In all, if Inspiration is a good thing, or not, seems to be totally dependent on the group, namely the dm. In a close knit-group or a home game I could see it working much better. But in organized play, I derno, I could see awarding Inspiration as "opening up a can of worms," with folks trying to be whacky in hopes of gaining the reward, especially, if the dm awards it to someone for being whacky. So, in organized play, I just think Inspiration is just one of those aspects that is too subjective. Maybe the dm likes to giggle? Thus, I'm not for Inspiration in organized play. If I was a dm in organized play, I would award it to players who kept his or her attention on the game, and who weren't briging up side conversations about movies, and video games, and stuff, or messing with their phone during the session, or cleaning his or her ears in public (the last session one player I was next to was fingering ear wax out of his ears and wiping it on his pants). That is, I would award it for paying close attention. But I would find awarding it for any other reason to be a potential recipee for disaster, because "God only knows" what some players would in order to try to get it? (even if he or she knew where the dm stood. That's no guarantee). But in a close knit group, or a home game, players are more reasonable, or in the case of a home game, you can be more selective about who's playing. Thus, everyone can be more so "on the same page."
#106 abs1nth Oct 20, 2014 11:50:42	iserith wrote:
#107 iserith Oct 20, 2014 11:57:20	abs1nth wrote:
#108 GhostStepper Oct 20, 2014 12:18:35	MykeSchultz wrote:
#109 Mechatarrasque Oct 20, 2014 12:25:10	I prefer giving inspiration points based on the table's reaction. If the players stop and clap at something one of them did, that is worth a point. I suppose this will lead to a charge that any player who gets one was "gaming the party"....
#110 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 12:25:54	MykeSchultz wrote:
#111 Timborama Oct 20, 2014 13:16:32	Ugh I got into this party too late. I got to page two and saw there were 32 new responses while I was reading...Anyway, my thoughts: 4E Tried this with Background and Character Themes. It gave you a power/ability/skill/some sort of effect as a "reward" for picking a pre-generated background. Sadly, this was mostly used (from what I see and hear) as less an RP element or reward as it is just another way to optimize. Though it also allowed a neat customization option for inclined folks (like making a Samurai or Lycan), which was neat. My main beef was that it was presented as a way to try and ecourage more RP elements in 4E, but it GAVE you the reward simply by choosing one, not acting upon it. This is where Inspiration comes in. It's up to the DM to give this out, now. You choose your Background, Alignment, Traits, Flaws, Bonds, whatevs. And if you're power hungry you're, essentially, forced to comply to gain Inspiration which doesn't stack as is only useable one at a time. This was a very subtle thing but a big improvement. It also did away with encouraging giving out extra treasure or XP to folks who do this like editions past talk about (though I'll have to wait for DMG before I can truly know this!), which means they are given an intangible expendable resource and NOT something that is concrete and often equally distributed, creating a weird imbalance. I've felt that no matter how minor the bonus XP/Gold is, other players seem to notice it much more than "Meh, get advantage on a saving throw or attack every now and then." The problem, as folks mention, is that this puts onus on the DM, and not the rules (well, not as much, since Inspiration is a rule guided by the DM). Personally I rather prefer this, anyway, so a character will feel less entitled to (or cheated by a lack of) this RP mechanic. It's both a good and bad thing, giving this to a DM. DM's can play favorites, give it out to actions they "approve" of (but not some others!), stuff like that. Also let's not forget that many of these decisions can be accidental, since we ARE human, after all! But this helps to maybe reel in the guy who sits in the back and likes to hit things with a stick. Instead of "forcing" him to RP correctly (even though battles are their own form of RP, as some people on this board say!) with different means which may or may not work, this offers a ruleset that allows him to think, "Hmmm, if I do this thing, maybe I can get Inspiration. That'll be REALLY handy when I want to land that Contagion spell on the BBEG we're gonna fight soon..." So it's a neat way to incentivise the guy who says "wake me up when the fighting starts." Because in order to get that Inspiration he MUST participate in a unique RP-element way. But if he doesn't, he's not missing out on much, mechanic/reward wise HOWEVER! All that being said, I don't like bonus XP, gold, or Inspiration. I very much understand with why they exist, and believe they very-much have their purpose. But I personally don't like to use them, and never have. Well, at least not to individuals, because if we have a great session, EVERYone is going to get the bonus XP or treasure. It's a group game, after all! Though I'm also somewhat spoiled by a very good group. When we do something fun, silly, outrageous, or totally in character, the fun and/or memorable moment is the reward, not "You get +50XP for spitting on that noble!" There have been times I step back and look at it from another perspective and note certain strange things that may arrise. Like, how if someone plays a brooding loner (who isn't disruptive to the party) who doesn't speak much? That doesn't lend itself as a "bonus XP/Inspiration build" like, say, a loud bard or dumb barbarian. She's playing her character to a "t" but it may be hard to be as "in your face" with it to gain Inspiration (yes, I know possibilities exist, like an in character "Grar, don't bug me!"). God help you if you (or your character) likes to participate but just isn't very vocal, perhaps being more precise in one's words. These people aren't playing wrong, playing characters wrong, or making un-fun play. It just seems weird to insinuate over-the-top play (albeit stuff that isn't disruptive!) in moments over a calm, consistent characterization Once I start doling out Inspiration, it'd make me afraid for the opposite of what people think it does: Sure it may encourage the people who can't RP or "don't know how" with good examples, but I fear it will make people either act a certain way expecting to get it, or worse, call me out and say "Hey, you gave 'x' for doing 'y'! Why not to me?!" But my players are better than that. Though it's easiest just to not tempt them, and, instead, let the fun be its own reward. We have a saying: "There's no such thing as a bad time to roll a natural 20 OR a natural 1!" Because it creates amazing story dynamics, either way, forcing the DM-and players alike-into a new situation. tl;dr-It's a fine mechanic that gives a cute benefit for certain kinds of people, but is kinda weird and reliant on the DM (like most things). I do not like to use it but will not say it's "wrong" or silly for tables that do.
#112 Gnarl Oct 20, 2014 13:02:30	iserith wrote:
#113 iserith Oct 20, 2014 13:15:26	Gnarl wrote:
#114 kalil Oct 20, 2014 13:16:00	I also do not like inspiration. It encourages struggling for the spotlight, gaming the DM, outrageous attention seeking and all sorts of behaviour I cant stand. Good roleplaying comes naturally when the DM presents compelling NPC's and environments to interact with. Furthermore it is it's own reward, it absolutely does not need to be mechanically incentivized.
#115 Psikerlord Oct 20, 2014 13:55:48	We havent really used inspiration as yet in the game I'm playing in. I dont like the basic concept of it, that by roleplaying your flaw you somehow get an advantage dice you can use at a later time. Feels very metagame to me. I do not think I will use inspiration regularly as a DM, but I might on occasion. On the other hand I do like the idea of a "pool" of "team" inspiration or experience dice. And if half or more players agree, then one other player can use a dice when needed. Similar to 2nd edition shadowrun team karma pool. That was fun.
#116 Shadewyn Oct 20, 2014 14:00:00	Thank_Dog wrote:
#117 Gnarl Oct 20, 2014 14:03:24	iserith wrote:
#118 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 14:15:45	kalil wrote:
#119 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 14:23:56	iserith wrote:
#120 Polaris Oct 20, 2014 14:32:12	Honestly instead of an 'inspiration point' mechanic, I'd have been a lot happier with something like the "Destiny Point" system from the latest Star Wars game. In that game at the start of every session, players roll up a random number of force points, some light and some dark. Players can at any time during play use a light side point to get some mechanical advantage (in that game usually by promoting a die type) which converts the point into a dark side point. Likewise the DM can use a Dark side point in the same way for the NPCs/Adversaries converting it to a light side point. At no point does the total number of force points change, and it encourages both the players and DMs to get involved but in ways that each can definately control while encouraging good narrative participation on both ends. A think a system like this is far superior to the Inspiration Point mechanic while encouraging the same basic goals. -POlaris
#121 The_White_Sorcerer Oct 20, 2014 14:35:12	One of my players is playing the pregen rogue from the Starter Set. Her bond is that she has an aunt in Phandalin who she gives part of her ill-gotten spoils. So whenever they're in town, the rogue gives a portion of her cut to her aunt, and I award inspiration. This requires zero skill in "role-playing" in the sense of acting out your character, nor is it all that wacky. So let's just say I don't have a problem with inspiration.
#122 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 14:41:49	Gnarl wrote:
#123 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 14:48:19	Polaris wrote:
#124 Ramzour Oct 20, 2014 14:50:23	The_White_Sorcerer wrote:
#125 Orethalion Oct 20, 2014 15:02:14	GhostStepper wrote:
#126 Gnarl Oct 20, 2014 15:03:45	Ramzour wrote:
#127 Orethalion Oct 20, 2014 15:04:45	On inpsiration. I'm not sure I'd ever use it, but if I did, I wouldnt reward it unless it actually resulted in a negative to the PC/party. It's the roleplaying of a negative trait, so a player trying to cheese the system by roleplaying it at a moment when it won't actually have a negative effect isn't going to be rewarded.
#128 iserith Oct 20, 2014 15:34:15	Ramzour wrote:
#129 Mistwell Oct 20, 2014 16:16:29	Thank_Dog wrote:
#130 iserith Oct 20, 2014 18:06:07	THEMNGMNT wrote:
#131 Psikerlord Oct 20, 2014 18:33:47	Polaris wrote:
#132 Psikerlord Oct 20, 2014 18:35:28	Ramzour wrote:
#133 GhostStepper Oct 20, 2014 18:38:13	Orethalion wrote:
#134 Rhenny Oct 20, 2014 18:54:27	One of the really nice things about Inspiration points is that they are transferable. It is terrific when someone at the table sacrifices his or her inspiration for another player in a dramatically important moment. They explain to me (DM) how they are inspiring their pal and we give the other PC advantage on the roll (actually, we let the player make a 2nd roll so the inspiration isn't spent on a natural success). In a way, they become a pool of resources that the party can draw upon. That makes it more likely that everyone at some point can benefit from them. Also, I bet it would be possible to allow the players themselves to speak out when they think they have done something that deserves an Inspiration point. That would really free up the DM. For me, I've found it easier to grant Inspiration at the end of a session or whenever we take a break and I recap what has happened in the game so far. I think I'll just build in a few breaks per game or use short rests in game as points where I decide to award Inspiration points. If I make it habitual, I won't forget and I think it will keep the game moving more fluidly. As DM, I really like when PCs use their inspiration point to re-roll. I like when they succeed at the tasks they decide they want to succeed at.
#135 Noon Oct 20, 2014 20:38:10	Ramzour wrote:
(Reply to #133) Reius	GhostStepper wrote:
#137 Thank_Dog Oct 20, 2014 23:07:54	GhostStepper wrote:
(Reply to #127) The_White_Sorcerer	Orethalion wrote:
#139 Ramzour Oct 21, 2014 1:40:30	Gnarl wrote:
#140 Ramzour Oct 21, 2014 1:50:48	Psikerlord wrote:
#141 Ramzour Oct 21, 2014 1:55:26	The_White_Sorcerer wrote:
(Reply to #141) The_White_Sorcerer	Ramzour wrote:
#143 iserith Oct 21, 2014 6:00:50	Ramzour wrote:
#144 iserith Oct 21, 2014 6:03:49	Ramzour wrote:
#145 Ramzour Oct 21, 2014 6:43:37	iserith wrote:
#146 iserith Oct 21, 2014 6:47:03	Ramzour wrote:
#147 Ramzour Oct 21, 2014 6:59:49	iserith wrote:
#148 iserith Oct 21, 2014 7:06:55	Ramzour wrote:
#149 Ramzour Oct 21, 2014 7:24:01	iserith wrote:
#150 Orethalion Oct 21, 2014 7:55:59	Ramzour wrote:
#151 ORC_Animus Oct 21, 2014 8:18:13	I’ve removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting/personal attacks are violations of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
(Reply to #137) GhostStepper	Thank_Dog wrote:
#153 Ramzour Oct 21, 2014 8:41:09	Orethalion wrote:
#154 Orethalion Oct 21, 2014 10:23:21	Ramzour wrote:
#155 Ramzour Oct 21, 2014 10:47:58	Orethalion wrote:
#156 ChrisCarlson Oct 21, 2014 11:05:14	I posted a new thread in the DM Forum wherein I am petitioning for ideas in helping brainstorm a deck of cards for use with Inspiration. Check it out if you got a moment...
#157 Orethalion Oct 21, 2014 11:12:21	Ramzour wrote:
(Reply to #65) Azzy1974	Kishri wrote:
#159 Noon Oct 21, 2014 11:26:52	Now now, if you break into a conversation between two other posters, they aren't obliged to make their mutually understood past conversation between them somehow restated in every post just in case someone wants to break into their conversation.
#160 Ramzour Oct 21, 2014 11:35:03	Orethalion wrote:
#161 Ramzour Oct 21, 2014 11:35:46	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #158) Kishri	Azzy1974 wrote:
#163 Orethalion Oct 21, 2014 13:05:33	Ramzour wrote:
(Reply to #152) Reius	GhostStepper wrote:
#165 Noon Oct 21, 2014 16:46:25	GhostStepper wrote:
(Reply to #165) Reius	Noon wrote:
#167 Cyber-Dave Oct 21, 2014 17:48:35	Noon wrote:
#168 Cyber-Dave Oct 21, 2014 17:58:50	Reius wrote:
#169 ChrisCarlson Oct 21, 2014 17:59:10	Cyber-Dave wrote:
#170 Noon Oct 21, 2014 17:59:11	Reius wrote:
#171 Noon Oct 21, 2014 18:05:51	Cyber-Dave wrote:
(Reply to #170) Cyber-Dave	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #170) Reius	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #172) Reius	Cyber-Dave wrote:
#175 GhostStepper Oct 21, 2014 23:49:24	Noon wrote:
#176 Ramzour Oct 22, 2014 0:30:40	Orethalion wrote:
#177 Kishri Oct 22, 2014 1:09:05	Hmmm, going by the posts above mine, I think I know why I have encountered so much problems with RP Incentive based award systems: No one can agree on what exactly role playing is, let alone what constitutes good role play enough to warrant rewards. In my experience, Gaming the DM is less the issue than getting your play noticed to warrant the reward. In the RPGA, this was a major problem. More quiet players who role played well and had plans and actions that made the game were often ignored in favor of the more "boistrous" characters that didn't do anything more than act a part in a memorable fashion. It didn't have to be good play, just memorable, and that was the problem-- good play was often ignored. This cause much resentment. The other issue, which is kind of a gaming the DM issue, is getting rewards often entail reading the DM to know what types of play will net the most/best rewards. Sometimes this enhances the gaming experience, but other times the spoils goes to the best "mind reader." To put it in a way that many will understand better: The DM declares, "Those who play their Alignment right will earn perks like rerolls and such." Now, given that no two folks agree what a specific alignment means, how can one ever expect a fair way to hand perks out based on that? Just like the numerous threads on these boards over the years where Alignment is a raging issue where no can agree, so has it been in my experience that what constitutes good play, playing a certain personality trait "right," and so on is just as subjective. And just as divisive. If the group is all on the same page, such systems work great. If not, stand by for some really epic arguments and tantrums. The way I work to avoid this in 5e is as follows: Every player will earn the same amount of Inspirations per session (usually 1 to 3). Players can call for me, the DM, to award one to another player they think is playing well. If this happens, I do not dispute it and award the Inspiration. Inspirations can be gifted, but a player can have no more than 3 can be banked at a time. The gifting must happen via a form of RP or combat tactic that the group feels makes sense as a reason for explaining the gift. In short, I let the players do much of the deciding, with me intervening in those cases where a player might be ignored and such. Not a perfect approach, but it has worked well so far.
#178 joeburgos Oct 22, 2014 5:31:58	I really like Inspiration and have awarded it to my players to very positive effects. I think its soon becoming (like Advantage/Disadvantage) one of the best things about D&D 5. Im anxious to see what the DMG will do to expand on this.
(Reply to #178) arnwolf666	joeburgos wrote:
#180 iserith Oct 22, 2014 6:16:22	Kishri wrote:
(Reply to #180) Kishri	iserith wrote:
#182 Elfcrusher Oct 22, 2014 10:38:23	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#183 Brock_Landers Oct 22, 2014 14:14:27	I think it's fine, just completely forgettable.
#184 Jenks Oct 22, 2014 15:21:53	Anything that get's my players out of their character sheet and into their character is welcomed by me.
#185 Rhenny Oct 22, 2014 15:37:06	Elfcrusher wrote:
#186 Noon Oct 22, 2014 16:52:25	Cyber-Dave wrote:
#187 Noon Oct 22, 2014 16:45:07	GhostStepper wrote:
#188 ChrisCarlson Oct 22, 2014 16:48:00	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #187) Reius	Noon wrote:
#190 Shasarak Oct 22, 2014 17:02:20	Noon wrote:
#191 ChrisCarlson Oct 22, 2014 17:04:40	Shasarak wrote:
#192 Noon Oct 22, 2014 17:21:15	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#193 ChrisCarlson Oct 22, 2014 17:38:18	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #188) Timborama	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#195 autolycus Oct 23, 2014 10:18:18	In my last game I tried a suggestion from this thread. I took <number of players> - 1 tokens and put them in the center of the table. I then informed the players that this was the Inspiration budget for the session. At any time, a player may take an inspiration token and give it to another player. Worked great! People were really happy to point out when a fellow player did something fun or memorable.
#196 Noon Oct 23, 2014 17:15:53	It's amazing - the very evidence you're being made an outsider is that no one can agree with even a simple claim you've made. Simply ask the one doing the outing whether they agree the sky is blue and they are baffled, of course. Because to agree with you is wrong - because outsider. It's pathological. autolycus wrote:
#197 ChrisCarlson Oct 23, 2014 17:18:03	Speaking of pathalogical... Just because someone has a persecution complex does not make them an "outsider".
#198 Ramzour Oct 24, 2014 0:58:11	autolycus wrote:
#199 sleypy Oct 24, 2014 7:29:00	Reius wrote:
#202 Noon Oct 25, 2014 17:46:29	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#203 shamurai7 Oct 26, 2014 18:41:31	Inspiration is just a single tool in the DM's toolbox. You don't even need to use it if you don't want to. I like to give it to players who are attempting something cool that the whole group would like them to succeed on. Now instead of me fudging numbers as the DM I can just publicly give a player inspiration to serve the same purpose.
#204 Elfcrusher Oct 26, 2014 21:51:57	grendel111111 wrote:
(Reply to #204) grendel111111	Elfcrusher wrote:
#206 Psikerlord Oct 27, 2014 0:03:14	I thought the rules said you only get inspiration if the DM allows, and that it must come from playing to your flaw - not simply your ideals or bonds. I understood it as a kind of balancing out - you play to your flaw, suffer a setback, but get inspiration in return. Perhaps I misread it or am misremembering. Edit - ah-ha! I see I am completely wrong. I actually like the way inspiration is described - that it applies if you can bring the adv back to a bond or flaw or whatever. That makes good sense. But just a floating "adv" dice waiting in the wings for whenever you want it..... nah.... I'd use paizo plot twist cards instead.
#207 Noon Oct 27, 2014 0:17:56	To use inspiration in regards to your characters personality, the game play would actually have to revolve around the characters personalities and choices. Which is no good for the pre written script crowd.
#208 ChrisCarlson Oct 27, 2014 6:39:37	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #208) Satyrn	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#210 ChrisCarlson Oct 29, 2014 17:06:28	Satyrn wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Thank_Dog

Oct 19, 2014 3:35:28

I don't mind the mechanics of it. It's very hero pointy. I'm all for that. And I get the concept behind it and on the surface I approve of its purpose. However, the reality is that it doesn't serve to work towards its intended goal. It ends up with a bit of a cobra effect occurring in games. This occurs because most DM's simply forget about inspiration. That is, until a player does something completely outrageous and over the top that it makes them remember it. This in turn promotes outrageous and over the top characterisation in order to earn inspiration.

Some may call this fun. And in some cases, it can be funny, but it can also get tiresome when it serves to constantly disrupt play when all the PC's end up becoming chaotic neutral.

More lawful, less disruptive players who may very well be playing to their ideals, flaws, and bonds perfectly, simply don't attract enough attention or don't do anything outrageous enough to make the DM notice. In essence, it punishes good roleplaying and promotes silly roleplaying.

Has anyone else found this to be the case?

AaronOfBarbaria

Oct 19, 2014 3:41:40

No. I pay as much attention to my players' inspiration giving traits as I can, keeping the noted on a sheet in front of me, and encourage my players to point out when they think they or another player should earn inspiration. Basically, we have adapted how we play to the new rules.

OrwellianHaggis

Oct 19, 2014 4:11:03

Quite the opposite in terms of silliness. Two of my three players made no attempt to roleplay before 5e and the Inspiration mechanic, even during the play test. Now they try. For example, one player used the rogue pregen for our trial of LMoP, and she was constantly pointing out her relationship to NPCs in regards to the Redbrands. Another player opened up a whole new possible quest line using her Ideal.

I can see why silly players might overshadow someone playing to Ideals, Flaws and Bonds, but that's a problem with the silly player, not with the Inspiration mechanic.

Monsieur_Moustache

Oct 19, 2014 4:17:36

Yes.

Good points distribution is disruptive on many level, including the simple fact that D&D is a game.

We can reward or punish players through the adventure, or more exactly their characters. By using RP mechanics, we promote the player above the character, and the the player plays the DM instead of the adventure (the diva players love RP mechanics).

It was already a problem with the White Wolf games.

spelley

Oct 19, 2014 6:31:52

I found that it works really well for my new players. It encouraged them to pick RP over metagaming a couple times. Once they got in the swing of things I usually just offered to apply the Advantage/removed Disadvantage from the RP action itself as that encouraged things just as well.

iserith

Oct 19, 2014 6:47:48

You could try taking a page from Dungeon World as I have done and award Inspiration as part of the "End of Session Move." I find this particular move very useful because it gets the group talking about the events of the session. Knowing what stands out to the players is great information for the DM and this is also a way to spark conversations about character relationships and development.

When you reach the end of a session, reduce your Inspiration to 0.

Choose one of your character's traits, ideals, bonds, or flaws that you feel you demonstrated well during play and describe it. Then mark Inspiration.

Next look at your alignment and compare it to the alignment descriptions on page 34 of the Player Basic Rules. If you feel you demonstrated your alignment well during play, describe it and then mark Inspiration.

Now, think about your relationships with the other characters. Choose one of your relationships that you feel is resolved (completely explored, no longer relevant, or otherwise). Ask the player of the character you have the relationship with if they agree. If they do, mark Inspiration and write a new relationship with whomever you wish.

Then answer these three questions as a group:

Did we learn something new and important about the world?

Did we overcome a notable monster or enemy?

Did we loot a memorable treasure?

For each "Yes," give details then mark Inspiration.

Normally, you can only have one Inspiration at a time. For this house rule, you can have as much Inspiration as your proficiency bonus. Just remember to spend 'em during play!

spelley

Oct 19, 2014 7:01:40

Note that while people may have reservations about Inspiration, I'd like to state that the Personality Traits, Ideals, Bonds and Flaws as even just a shorthand reminder for my newer players has been absolutely perfect. Whether you hang mechanics off it (or indeed *should*) is up for debate but it helps SO MUCH in answering the "what would my character do" question for new players.

Polaris

Oct 19, 2014 7:06:21

Thank_Dog wrote:

sleypy

Oct 19, 2014 7:06:52

I hand out inspiration at the end of a scene.I want to reward roleplaying thorugh a encounter not for a single action or one liner.

#42

cassi_brazuca

Oct 19, 2014 16:01:44

Thank_Dog, if this was for me, I appreciate your effort, but I think this is pointless.

Cyber-Dave, I couldn’t have been clearer to you. It is pretty simple, actually: this mechanic wants to give mechanical effects (possibly combat related) to what the DM considers to be “good roleplay”. So, the case of “You’re going to have advantage in this attack roll because of the speech you did last week, and for no in-game reason” is real. It’s right into the mechanic. Convince me how that’s not meta-game, playing the DM and such.

Well, you must have missed the huge quantity of actor-style players that tells to other players “You’re playing it wrong, this is not the true RPG; true RPG is (insert theater play here)” and such. Tired of it. Really tired. Wanting to have combat bonuses because of better acting is akin to “I’m right, I’m right: you’re playing it wrong”. It’s pretty simple: people shouldn’t RP because of combat bonuses. I have nothing against people who want to focus on roleplay, just don’t put any game rules that tries to make you superior just because.

#43

Azzy1974

Oct 19, 2014 16:39:19

Since, at least, the 80s DMs of D&D have used bonus XP to award players for good roleplaying, clever ideas, benefitting the PC's party, etc. Other TRPGs have done this and/or expannded upon this with game mechanics that specifically reward players for certain types of play. These sorts of things have been responded to well my the TRPG community and that's why they keep cropping up in new games and newer editions of old games. It may not be your bag, but it's here to stay.

(Reply to #42)

Azzy1974

cassi_brazuca wrote:

#45

Cyber-Dave

Oct 19, 2014 17:02:20

cassi_brazuca wrote:

#46

Noon

Oct 19, 2014 17:07:20

Thank_Dog wrote:

#47

Rhenny

Oct 19, 2014 17:21:51

Azzy1974 wrote:

#48

Thank_Dog

Oct 19, 2014 19:09:00

Azzy1974 wrote:

#49

Shasarak

Oct 19, 2014 19:23:16

Noon wrote:

#50

AaronOfBarbaria

Oct 19, 2014 21:18:06

Thank_Dog wrote:

#51

Neonflux

Oct 19, 2014 21:58:35

My group of players are all pretty much new to the game (apart from playing once 20 years ago in highschool sorta thing)

In the 2 sessions I've run we haven't really used Inspiration, although I'm not against it, it's more a case of, with new players they already have enough to keep track of while learning the game.

I might re-visit this though, we made the charcters with just the starter pack, which I felt had a few things missing. Also some of the players that used the pre-gen characters from that box crossed out their given background and wrote things like 'hunter' which doesn't really mean much to anybody.

I always used to give bonus XP for good roleplaying, which I think can work and is probably a more desirable reward as well for players.

It really depends on your players, and what works. If it does encourage roleplay than all the better, if it just turns into another thing for the players to meta-game than it can easily be dropped.

Like I say, so far I've yet to really keep it mind when running the game (coming back form a 10 year break, I'm easily overwhelmed during sessions so far) but I am finding I need to do something to try and get my group roleplaying more, other than just the rouge in the party trying to steal from everyone and then declaring 'I'm just roleplaying my character'

#52

BW0222

Oct 19, 2014 23:30:59

Thank_Dog wrote:

#53

Thank_Dog

Oct 20, 2014 0:12:09

I've decided that in games that I run that I won't be using the default method of Inspiration. However, I still like the mechanical aspect of it so I'm going to simply say that you get one Inspiration point per adventure. By adventure I mean per primary story goal reached/achieved. In the case of HotDQ, this would be per Episode. You start with one, and gain another one at the end of the Episode. But you can still only ever have it or not have it, so if you haven't used it in the Episode, you don't get an additional point.

I think this encourages players to save it up for "the big move" or when they're desperate and need to pull out a win instead of trying to game the system and the DM. Roleplaying shouldn't be forced and I feel this method of giving Inspiration for roleplaying only serves to diminish roleplaying and not enhance it. This also means that the shier, or less experienced players aren't punished and those who can game the DM and the system don't get any extra benefit above those who don't, won't or can't.

#54

Diffan

Oct 20, 2014 0:47:21

As the group's primary DM, I have to say that I like the mechanic overall. Hereare some reasons why: 1) we already role-play, so getting a benny for something we already do is just icing on the cake. 2) it helps new players get into character more. 3) it gets mechanical-inclined players to role-play, even if it is just for the benny. 4) its just advantage, nothing ridiculous or grossly over-powered. I mean can we say *yawn*? Sure, it's nice but not something we honestly care that much about in the long run.

#55

Kishri

Oct 20, 2014 1:36:50

As Azzy1974 pointed out these systems have come and gone over the years. The reason they go away is that there is no good way for any DM, or group of players if their input is accepted, to be fair or be perceived as fair on a consistent basis over a long period of time. The result is such systems generally degenerate into popularity contests and/or they foster arguments.

All that it takes is one player to say, "How come he got one, but I didn't?"

From that point on, the system designed to encourage roleplay becomes a bone of contention. Even if the DM is completely fair; the dissenting player trully did not earn the award in this case, the offended player will feel punished. He will remember this and will continue to grouse after every non favorable instance. This behavior is contagious.

The RPGA used a similar system during the Raven's Bluff era. The DM could award points and perks based upon superior play. The players could also bestow perks upon their fellow players via an end of the game vote. The system was dumped due to the popularity contests and arguments it generated.

As a DM for 5e, the Inspiration Point System is the part of the game I fear the most. I haven't had a problem yet, but I dread the day a player will get mad because he didn't get one, or thinks another player doesn't deserve one. I just don't need that headache, and I know it is coming because in the 38 years I have been playing RPGs I have never seen a Role Play Incentive based award system not generate complaints, especially the longer the game is played. Human nature always sees to that and it is just a matter of time.

Until that time, I will continue to hand them out liberally in ways I feel fair, knowing that being fair is merely an opinion of consensus. When that inevitable loss of consensus occurs, the Inspiration system becomes optional-- as in I opt out.

#56

GhostStepper

Oct 20, 2014 1:48:21

Noon wrote:

#57

Diffan

Oct 20, 2014 1:52:19

Kishri, if a player says that I simply say "because I say so" and if they have a problem with that, no ones forcing them to stay and there's the door. But, in reality, if people are THAT petty over Advantage then they're probably people that your not going to like playing with regardless.

#58

Noon

Oct 20, 2014 1:54:45

Thank_Dog wrote:

#59

Shasarak

Oct 20, 2014 2:15:47

Kishri wrote:

#60

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 2:36:12

Thank_Dog wrote:

#61

abs1nth

Oct 20, 2014 2:39:15

Kishri wrote:

#62

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 2:41:14

Polaris wrote:

(Reply to #55)

Azzy1974

Kishri wrote:

#64

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 2:44:58

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

(Reply to #63)

Kishri

Azzy1974 wrote:

#66

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 3:11:08

Thank_Dog wrote:

(Reply to #61)

Kishri

abs1nth wrote:

#68

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 3:18:13

Thank_Dog wrote:

(Reply to #64)

AaronOfBarbaria

Ramzour wrote:

#70

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 3:38:02

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

(Reply to #70)

AaronOfBarbaria

Ramzour wrote:

#72

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 4:03:30

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

#73

AaronOfBarbaria

Oct 20, 2014 4:22:46

Ramzour, I get your joke... but what part of you making a joke means I can't respond with my own joke and/or related thoughts?

#74

Thank_Dog

Oct 20, 2014 4:44:48

Ramzour wrote:

#75

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 5:01:00

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

#76

autolycus

Oct 20, 2014 5:52:22

As a DM I do feel some pressure to always catch everything said by every player, which is not an easy task.

If I miss something said by one player that is inspiration-worthy but reward something said by another it could be seen as unfair.

I like the suggestions here where the players give out inspiration to each other from a limited pool per session.

#77

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 6:01:50

Having read all the complaints in this thread, I do believe that the system I posted upthread will work to solve most of them. By awarding Inspiration at the end of the session for use in the following session, you take away all the DM monitoring during play, the players "self-police," and it incentivizes good play. What's more you can hack it to change the questions depending on your game and preferences as a group. If you run a horror game, for example, you could just change the types of questions to things like "Did you make an obviously stupid decision like the characters in a horror movie do?"

#78

Polaris

Oct 20, 2014 6:04:51

Diffan wrote:

#79

Polaris

Oct 20, 2014 6:11:28

Ramzour wrote:

#80

Plaguescarred1

Oct 20, 2014 6:32:11

I really like the inspiration mechanic as a reward to roleplay your character. Works well for us!

#81

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 6:35:53

Polaris wrote:

#82

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 6:40:59

autolycus wrote:

#83

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 6:56:00

iserith wrote:

#84

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 7:01:03

Ramzour wrote:

#85

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 7:17:56

iserith wrote:

#86

Orethalion

Oct 20, 2014 7:19:53

GhostStepper wrote:

#87

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 7:29:11

Ramzour wrote:

(Reply to #78)

Diffan

Polaris wrote:

#89

Theros

Oct 20, 2014 7:50:38

iserith wrote:

#90

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 8:22:52

iserith wrote:

#91

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 8:28:51

Ramzour wrote:

#92

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 8:41:31

iserith wrote:

#93

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 8:47:55

Ramzour wrote:

#94

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 9:06:48

iserith wrote:

#95

BecDeCorbin

Oct 20, 2014 9:09:00

The problem with role-playing games is all the role-players...

Really?

I don't buy the argument that Inspiration is a poor mechanic because it relies on DM decision making and is, thus, inherently corrupt. If the idea of a DM making decisions frightens you, I don't think D&D is your game. Too much relies on it--what encounters the PCs face, the motivation and tactics of monsters and NPC, treasures found, how to adjudicate situations, and on and on. It is a game of DM and player cooperation by design.

If a player is being disruptive in an effort to gain Inspiration, it's up to the DM and the group to encourage the player to not be disruptive. If the DM is playing favorites, it's up to the players to convince the DM of his folly and encourage him to do better. D&D is a social game and requires some rudimentary social skills. It's not neurorocketry, people.

The Inspiration mechanic encourages players to think about the personality traits of their characters--to see them as characters rather than 'builds'. For most campaigns and players, that can only be a good thing. The fact that you can only have one at a time means it will have a relatively minor effect in most games (maybe once or twice a session). That sounds pretty innocuous to me.

I also don't see Inspiration as a strictly meta-game resource. I think it's just what it says on the tin: inspiration. By following your personality traits (being true to yourself), you gain the confidence or determination to dig deep when pressed to possibly succeed where you might otherwise fail. It's an abstract mechanic (like hit points), but not-necessarily one that has no game fiction component.

#96

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 9:20:21

Ramzour wrote:

#97

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 9:58:41

iserith wrote:

#98

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 10:11:18

Ramzour wrote:

#99

GhostStepper

Oct 20, 2014 10:12:33

Orethalion wrote:

#100

Gnarl

Oct 20, 2014 10:31:23

Thank_Dog wrote:

#101

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 10:45:16

iserith wrote:

#102

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 10:53:19

Ramzour wrote:

#103

Gnarl

Oct 20, 2014 11:06:21

Ramzour wrote:

#104

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 11:12:14

Gnarl wrote:

#105

MykeSchultz

Oct 20, 2014 11:47:08

I don't quite know how I feel about Inspiration. So far, for 5ed, I've only played in organized play, and the DM has yet to award it. I don't know if she just forgets, or doesn't like the mechanic, or she thinks no one has earned it. In all, if Inspiration is a good thing, or not, seems to be totally dependent on the group, namely the dm. In a close knit-group or a home game I could see it working much better. But in organized play, I derno, I could see awarding Inspiration as "opening up a can of worms," with folks trying to be whacky in hopes of gaining the reward, especially, if the dm awards it to someone for being whacky. So, in organized play, I just think Inspiration is just one of those aspects that is too subjective. Maybe the dm likes to giggle? Thus, I'm not for Inspiration in organized play.

If I was a dm in organized play, I would award it to players who kept his or her attention on the game, and who weren't briging up side conversations about movies, and video games, and stuff, or messing with their phone during the session, or cleaning his or her ears in public (the last session one player I was next to was fingering ear wax out of his ears and wiping it on his pants). That is, I would award it for paying close attention. But I would find awarding it for any other reason to be a potential recipee for disaster, because "God only knows" what some players would in order to try to get it? (even if he or she knew where the dm stood. That's no guarantee).

But in a close knit group, or a home game, players are more reasonable, or in the case of a home game, you can be more selective about who's playing. Thus, everyone can be more so "on the same page."

#106

abs1nth

Oct 20, 2014 11:50:42

iserith wrote:

#107

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 11:57:20

abs1nth wrote:

#108

GhostStepper

Oct 20, 2014 12:18:35

MykeSchultz wrote:

#109

Mechatarrasque

Oct 20, 2014 12:25:10

I prefer giving inspiration points based on the table's reaction. If the players stop and clap at something one of them did, that is worth a point. I suppose this will lead to a charge that any player who gets one was "gaming the party"....

#110

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 12:25:54

MykeSchultz wrote:

#111

Timborama

Oct 20, 2014 13:16:32

Ugh I got into this party too late. I got to page two and saw there were 32 new responses while I was reading...Anyway, my thoughts:

4E Tried this with Background and Character Themes. It gave you a power/ability/skill/some sort of effect as a "reward" for picking a pre-generated background. Sadly, this was mostly used (from what I see and hear) as less an RP element or reward as it is just another way to optimize. Though it also allowed a neat customization option for inclined folks (like making a Samurai or Lycan), which was neat. My main beef was that it was presented as a way to try and ecourage more RP elements in 4E, but it GAVE you the reward simply by choosing one, not acting upon it.

This is where Inspiration comes in. It's up to the DM to give this out, now. You choose your Background, Alignment, Traits, Flaws, Bonds, whatevs. And if you're power hungry you're, essentially, forced to comply to gain Inspiration which doesn't stack as is only useable one at a time. This was a very subtle thing but a big improvement. It also did away with encouraging giving out extra treasure or XP to folks who do this like editions past talk about (though I'll have to wait for DMG before I can truly know this!), which means they are given an intangible expendable resource and NOT something that is concrete and often equally distributed, creating a weird imbalance. I've felt that no matter how minor the bonus XP/Gold is, other players seem to notice it much more than "Meh, get advantage on a saving throw or attack every now and then."

The problem, as folks mention, is that this puts onus on the DM, and not the rules (well, not as much, since Inspiration is a rule guided by the DM). Personally I rather prefer this, anyway, so a character will feel less entitled to (or cheated by a lack of) this RP mechanic. It's both a good and bad thing, giving this to a DM. DM's can play favorites, give it out to actions they "approve" of (but not some others!), stuff like that. Also let's not forget that many of these decisions can be accidental, since we ARE human, after all! But this helps to maybe reel in the guy who sits in the back and likes to hit things with a stick. Instead of "forcing" him to RP correctly (even though battles are their own form of RP, as some people on this board say!) with different means which may or may not work, this offers a ruleset that allows him to think, "Hmmm, if I do this thing, maybe I can get Inspiration. That'll be REALLY handy when I want to land that Contagion spell on the BBEG we're gonna fight soon..." So it's a neat way to incentivise the guy who says "wake me up when the fighting starts." Because in order to get that Inspiration he MUST participate in a unique RP-element way. But if he doesn't, he's not missing out on much, mechanic/reward wise

HOWEVER! All that being said, I don't like bonus XP, gold, or Inspiration. I very much understand with why they exist, and believe they very-much have their purpose. But I personally don't like to use them, and never have. Well, at least not to individuals, because if we have a great session, EVERYone is going to get the bonus XP or treasure. It's a group game, after all! Though I'm also somewhat spoiled by a very good group. When we do something fun, silly, outrageous, or totally in character, the fun and/or memorable moment is the reward, not "You get +50XP for spitting on that noble!"

There have been times I step back and look at it from another perspective and note certain strange things that may arrise. Like, how if someone plays a brooding loner (who isn't disruptive to the party) who doesn't speak much? That doesn't lend itself as a "bonus XP/Inspiration build" like, say, a loud bard or dumb barbarian. She's playing her character to a "t" but it may be hard to be as "in your face" with it to gain Inspiration (yes, I know possibilities exist, like an in character "Grar, don't bug me!"). God help you if you (or your character) likes to participate but just isn't very vocal, perhaps being more precise in one's words. These people aren't playing wrong, playing characters wrong, or making un-fun play. It just seems weird to insinuate over-the-top play (albeit stuff that isn't disruptive!) in moments over a calm, consistent characterization

Once I start doling out Inspiration, it'd make me afraid for the opposite of what people think it does: Sure it may encourage the people who can't RP or "don't know how" with good examples, but I fear it will make people either act a certain way expecting to get it, or worse, call me out and say "Hey, you gave 'x' for doing 'y'! Why not to me?!"

But my players are better than that. Though it's easiest just to not tempt them, and, instead, let the fun be its own reward. We have a saying: "There's no such thing as a bad time to roll a natural 20 OR a natural 1!" Because it creates amazing story dynamics, either way, forcing the DM-and players alike-into a new situation.

tl;dr-It's a fine mechanic that gives a cute benefit for certain kinds of people, but is kinda weird and reliant on the DM (like most things). I do not like to use it but will not say it's "wrong" or silly for tables that do.

#112

Gnarl

Oct 20, 2014 13:02:30

iserith wrote:

#113

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 13:15:26

Gnarl wrote:

#114

kalil

Oct 20, 2014 13:16:00

I also do not like inspiration. It encourages struggling for the spotlight, gaming the DM, outrageous attention seeking and all sorts of behaviour I cant stand. Good roleplaying comes naturally when the DM presents compelling NPC's and environments to interact with. Furthermore it is it's own reward, it absolutely does not need to be mechanically incentivized.

#115

Psikerlord

Oct 20, 2014 13:55:48

We havent really used inspiration as yet in the game I'm playing in. I dont like the basic concept of it, that by roleplaying your flaw you somehow get an advantage dice you can use at a later time. Feels very metagame to me.

I do not think I will use inspiration regularly as a DM, but I might on occasion.

On the other hand I do like the idea of a "pool" of "team" inspiration or experience dice. And if half or more players agree, then one other player can use a dice when needed. Similar to 2nd edition shadowrun team karma pool. That was fun.

#116

Shadewyn

Oct 20, 2014 14:00:00

Thank_Dog wrote:

#117

Gnarl

Oct 20, 2014 14:03:24

iserith wrote:

#118

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 14:15:45

kalil wrote:

#119

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 14:23:56

iserith wrote:

#120

Polaris

Oct 20, 2014 14:32:12

Honestly instead of an 'inspiration point' mechanic, I'd have been a lot happier with something like the "Destiny Point" system from the latest Star Wars game. In that game at the start of every session, players roll up a random number of force points, some light and some dark. Players can at any time during play use a light side point to get some mechanical advantage (in that game usually by promoting a die type) which converts the point into a dark side point. Likewise the DM can use a Dark side point in the same way for the NPCs/Adversaries converting it to a light side point.

At no point does the total number of force points change, and it encourages both the players and DMs to get involved but in ways that each can definately control while encouraging good narrative participation on both ends.

A think a system like this is far superior to the Inspiration Point mechanic while encouraging the same basic goals.

-POlaris

#121

The_White_Sorcerer

Oct 20, 2014 14:35:12

One of my players is playing the pregen rogue from the Starter Set. Her bond is that she has an aunt in Phandalin who she gives part of her ill-gotten spoils. So whenever they're in town, the rogue gives a portion of her cut to her aunt, and I award inspiration. This requires zero skill in "role-playing" in the sense of acting out your character, nor is it all that wacky. So let's just say I don't have a problem with inspiration.

#122

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 14:41:49

Gnarl wrote:

#123

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 14:48:19

Polaris wrote:

#124

Ramzour

Oct 20, 2014 14:50:23

The_White_Sorcerer wrote:

#125

Orethalion

Oct 20, 2014 15:02:14

GhostStepper wrote:

#126

Gnarl

Oct 20, 2014 15:03:45

Ramzour wrote:

#127

Orethalion

Oct 20, 2014 15:04:45

On inpsiration. I'm not sure I'd ever use it, but if I did, I wouldnt reward it unless it actually resulted in a negative to the PC/party. It's the roleplaying of a negative trait, so a player trying to cheese the system by roleplaying it at a moment when it won't actually have a negative effect isn't going to be rewarded.

#128

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 15:34:15

Ramzour wrote:

#129

Mistwell

Oct 20, 2014 16:16:29

Thank_Dog wrote:

#130

iserith

Oct 20, 2014 18:06:07

THEMNGMNT wrote:

#131

Psikerlord

Oct 20, 2014 18:33:47

Polaris wrote:

#132

Psikerlord

Oct 20, 2014 18:35:28

Ramzour wrote:

#133

GhostStepper

Oct 20, 2014 18:38:13

Orethalion wrote:

#134

Rhenny

Oct 20, 2014 18:54:27

One of the really nice things about Inspiration points is that they are transferable. It is terrific when someone at the table sacrifices his or her inspiration for another player in a dramatically important moment. They explain to me (DM) how they are inspiring their pal and we give the other PC advantage on the roll (actually, we let the player make a 2nd roll so the inspiration isn't spent on a natural success).

In a way, they become a pool of resources that the party can draw upon. That makes it more likely that everyone at some point can benefit from them.

Also, I bet it would be possible to allow the players themselves to speak out when they think they have done something that deserves an Inspiration point. That would really free up the DM.

For me, I've found it easier to grant Inspiration at the end of a session or whenever we take a break and I recap what has happened in the game so far. I think I'll just build in a few breaks per game or use short rests in game as points where I decide to award Inspiration points. If I make it habitual, I won't forget and I think it will keep the game moving more fluidly.

As DM, I really like when PCs use their inspiration point to re-roll. I like when they succeed at the tasks they decide they want to succeed at.

#135

Noon

Oct 20, 2014 20:38:10

Ramzour wrote:

(Reply to #133)

Reius

GhostStepper wrote:

#137

Thank_Dog

Oct 20, 2014 23:07:54

GhostStepper wrote:

(Reply to #127)

The_White_Sorcerer

Orethalion wrote:

#139

Ramzour

Oct 21, 2014 1:40:30

Gnarl wrote:

#140

Ramzour

Oct 21, 2014 1:50:48

Psikerlord wrote:

#141

Ramzour

Oct 21, 2014 1:55:26

The_White_Sorcerer wrote:

(Reply to #141)

The_White_Sorcerer

Ramzour wrote:

#143

iserith

Oct 21, 2014 6:00:50

Ramzour wrote:

#144

iserith

Oct 21, 2014 6:03:49

Ramzour wrote:

#145

Ramzour

Oct 21, 2014 6:43:37

iserith wrote:

#146

iserith

Oct 21, 2014 6:47:03

Ramzour wrote:

#147

Ramzour

Oct 21, 2014 6:59:49

iserith wrote:

#148

iserith

Oct 21, 2014 7:06:55

Ramzour wrote:

#149

Ramzour

Oct 21, 2014 7:24:01

iserith wrote:

#150

Orethalion

Oct 21, 2014 7:55:59

Ramzour wrote:

#151

ORC_Animus

Oct 21, 2014 8:18:13

I’ve removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting/personal attacks are violations of the Code of Conduct.

You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct

Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.

If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.

(Reply to #137)

GhostStepper

Thank_Dog wrote:

#153

Ramzour

Oct 21, 2014 8:41:09

Orethalion wrote:

#154

Orethalion

Oct 21, 2014 10:23:21

Ramzour wrote:

#155

Ramzour

Oct 21, 2014 10:47:58

Orethalion wrote:

#156

ChrisCarlson

Oct 21, 2014 11:05:14

I posted a new thread in the DM Forum wherein I am petitioning for ideas in helping brainstorm a deck of cards for use with Inspiration. Check it out if you got a moment...

#157

Orethalion

Oct 21, 2014 11:12:21

Ramzour wrote:

(Reply to #65)

Azzy1974

Kishri wrote:

#159

Noon

Oct 21, 2014 11:26:52

Now now, if you break into a conversation between two other posters, they aren't obliged to make their mutually understood past conversation between them somehow restated in every post just in case someone wants to break into their conversation.

#160

Ramzour

Oct 21, 2014 11:35:03

Orethalion wrote:

#161

Ramzour

Oct 21, 2014 11:35:46

Noon wrote:

(Reply to #158)

Kishri

Azzy1974 wrote:

#163

Orethalion

Oct 21, 2014 13:05:33

Ramzour wrote:

(Reply to #152)

Reius

GhostStepper wrote:

#165

Noon

Oct 21, 2014 16:46:25

GhostStepper wrote:

(Reply to #165)

Reius

Noon wrote:

#167

Cyber-Dave

Oct 21, 2014 17:48:35

Noon wrote:

#168

Cyber-Dave

Oct 21, 2014 17:58:50

Reius wrote:

#169

ChrisCarlson

Oct 21, 2014 17:59:10

Cyber-Dave wrote:

#170

Noon

Oct 21, 2014 17:59:11

Reius wrote:

#171

Noon

Oct 21, 2014 18:05:51

Cyber-Dave wrote:

(Reply to #170)

Cyber-Dave

Noon wrote:

(Reply to #170)

Reius

Noon wrote:

(Reply to #172)

Reius

Cyber-Dave wrote:

#175

GhostStepper

Oct 21, 2014 23:49:24

Noon wrote:

#176

Ramzour

Oct 22, 2014 0:30:40

Orethalion wrote:

#177

Kishri

Oct 22, 2014 1:09:05

Hmmm, going by the posts above mine, I think I know why I have encountered so much problems with RP Incentive based award systems: No one can agree on what exactly role playing is, let alone what constitutes good role play enough to warrant rewards.

In my experience, Gaming the DM is less the issue than getting your play noticed to warrant the reward. In the RPGA, this was a major problem. More quiet players who role played well and had plans and actions that made the game were often ignored in favor of the more "boistrous" characters that didn't do anything more than act a part in a memorable fashion. It didn't have to be good play, just memorable, and that was the problem-- good play was often ignored. This cause much resentment.

The other issue, which is kind of a gaming the DM issue, is getting rewards often entail reading the DM to know what types of play will net the most/best rewards. Sometimes this enhances the gaming experience, but other times the spoils goes to the best "mind reader."

To put it in a way that many will understand better: The DM declares, "Those who play their Alignment right will earn perks like rerolls and such." Now, given that no two folks agree what a specific alignment means, how can one ever expect a fair way to hand perks out based on that? Just like the numerous threads on these boards over the years where Alignment is a raging issue where no can agree, so has it been in my experience that what constitutes good play, playing a certain personality trait "right," and so on is just as subjective. And just as divisive.

If the group is all on the same page, such systems work great. If not, stand by for some really epic arguments and tantrums.

The way I work to avoid this in 5e is as follows: Every player will earn the same amount of Inspirations per session (usually 1 to 3). Players can call for me, the DM, to award one to another player they think is playing well. If this happens, I do not dispute it and award the Inspiration. Inspirations can be gifted, but a player can have no more than 3 can be banked at a time. The gifting must happen via a form of RP or combat tactic that the group feels makes sense as a reason for explaining the gift. In short, I let the players do much of the deciding, with me intervening in those cases where a player might be ignored and such. Not a perfect approach, but it has worked well so far.

#178

joeburgos

Oct 22, 2014 5:31:58

I really like Inspiration and have awarded it to my players to very positive effects. I think its soon becoming (like Advantage/Disadvantage) one of the best things about D&D 5. Im anxious to see what the DMG will do to expand on this.

(Reply to #178)

arnwolf666

joeburgos wrote:

#180

iserith

Oct 22, 2014 6:16:22

Kishri wrote:

(Reply to #180)

Kishri

iserith wrote:

#182

Elfcrusher

Oct 22, 2014 10:38:23

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

#183

Brock_Landers

Oct 22, 2014 14:14:27

I think it's fine, just completely forgettable.

#184

Jenks

Oct 22, 2014 15:21:53

Anything that get's my players out of their character sheet and into their character is welcomed by me.

#185

Rhenny

Oct 22, 2014 15:37:06

Elfcrusher wrote:

#186

Noon

Oct 22, 2014 16:52:25

Cyber-Dave wrote:

#187

Noon

Oct 22, 2014 16:45:07

GhostStepper wrote:

#188

ChrisCarlson

Oct 22, 2014 16:48:00

Noon wrote:

(Reply to #187)

Reius

Noon wrote:

#190

Shasarak

Oct 22, 2014 17:02:20

Noon wrote:

#191

ChrisCarlson

Oct 22, 2014 17:04:40

Shasarak wrote:

#192

Noon

Oct 22, 2014 17:21:15

ChrisCarlson wrote:

#193

ChrisCarlson

Oct 22, 2014 17:38:18

Noon wrote:

(Reply to #188)

Timborama

ChrisCarlson wrote:

#195

autolycus

Oct 23, 2014 10:18:18

In my last game I tried a suggestion from this thread. I took <number of players> - 1 tokens and put them in the center of the table. I then informed the players that this was the Inspiration budget for the session. At any time, a player may take an inspiration token and give it to another player.

Worked great!

People were really happy to point out when a fellow player did something fun or memorable.

#196

Noon

Oct 23, 2014 17:15:53

It's amazing - the very evidence you're being made an outsider is that no one can agree with even a simple claim you've made.

Simply ask the one doing the outing whether they agree the sky is blue and they are baffled, of course. Because to agree with you is wrong - because outsider. It's pathological.

autolycus wrote:

#197

ChrisCarlson

Oct 23, 2014 17:18:03

Speaking of pathalogical...

Just because someone has a persecution complex does not make them an "outsider".

#198

Ramzour

Oct 24, 2014 0:58:11

autolycus wrote:

#199

sleypy

Oct 24, 2014 7:29:00

Reius wrote:

#202

Noon

Oct 25, 2014 17:46:29

ChrisCarlson wrote:

#203

shamurai7

Oct 26, 2014 18:41:31

Inspiration is just a single tool in the DM's toolbox. You don't even need to use it if you don't want to.

I like to give it to players who are attempting something cool that the whole group would like them to succeed on.

Now instead of me fudging numbers as the DM I can just publicly give a player inspiration to serve the same purpose.

#204

Elfcrusher

Oct 26, 2014 21:51:57

grendel111111 wrote:

(Reply to #204)

grendel111111

Elfcrusher wrote:

#206

Psikerlord

Oct 27, 2014 0:03:14

I thought the rules said you only get inspiration if the DM allows, and that it must come from playing to your flaw - not simply your ideals or bonds. I understood it as a kind of balancing out - you play to your flaw, suffer a setback, but get inspiration in return. Perhaps I misread it or am misremembering.

Edit - ah-ha! I see I am completely wrong. I actually like the way inspiration is described - that it applies if you can bring the adv back to a bond or flaw or whatever. That makes good sense. But just a floating "adv" dice waiting in the wings for whenever you want it..... nah.... I'd use paizo plot twist cards instead.

#207

Noon

Oct 27, 2014 0:17:56

To use inspiration in regards to your characters personality, the game play would actually have to revolve around the characters personalities and choices. Which is no good for the pre written script crowd.

#208

ChrisCarlson

Oct 27, 2014 6:39:37

Noon wrote:

(Reply to #208)

Satyrn

ChrisCarlson wrote:

#210

ChrisCarlson

Oct 29, 2014 17:06:28

Satyrn wrote: