Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lawolf Sep 23, 2014 16:12:04	Sometimes, a single subclass just doesn't get a concept across. So what if you could use feats/ability boosts to get an additional subclass?   Second Subclass Module: When you reach a level that gives you an ability score increase, you may choose to gain a subclass feature from your class. The subclass feature must be of a level lower than your current class level. You must choose all lower level subclass features before you can take a higher level feature.   For example: At 4th level battlemaster fighter could choose the the level 3 champion feature (Improved Critical) instead of an ability score increase. At 8th level, the battlemaster could then choose the 7th level champion feature (Remarkable Athlete).   If the battlemaster had not already chosen Improved Critical, he could not take Remarkable Athlete at 8th level. The battlemaster could not have chosen Remarkable Athlete at 6th level because the feature is a 7th level feature, which is higher than his class level.       Thoughts? Any obvious balance issues?
#2 Gnarl Sep 23, 2014 16:41:11	This probably would work right now because of the limited number of sub classes but I can imagine the nightmare once a few subclasses come out. Imagine if a fighter has 4 or 5 different subclasses that allows him to increase his damage? Right now, you can do that with one subclass and it doesn't seem like you'll be able to stack many feats that increase your damage.   If you're going to include this kind of stuff in your games, you might as well make up some custom feats with your players. Or even better, you could grant these abilities as special rewards for completing adventures. By giving them as rewards, you have more control over broken combos. If you say yes as a feat to one player, there's really no reason why to say no to another player that could abuse it.
#3 Irithil Sep 23, 2014 16:44:06	Lawolf wrote:
#4 Grifford Sep 23, 2014 17:52:49	Lawolf wrote:
#5 FFSAA Sep 23, 2014 18:07:15	Probably a good thing all around and helps patch the glaring error where it's easier for a character to take up an entirely different class than a 2nd subclass of their own.  Considering every level's abilities are supposed to be balanced anyway and since sub classes are just disguised feat chains to begin with there shouldn't be a problem.  Just need to fix the problem of characters who take feats or multi-class are dumber/weaker/etc. than ones that don't since they don't get attribute bonuses.
#6 rampant Sep 23, 2014 21:07:00	There are some rather obvious issues here.   Many subclasses have a first ability that is the foundation for the rest of the abilities and as such tends to be rather potent.   For example an EK or AT gains spell casting that follows them for the rest of their class progression, that's a bit more than a feat should be handing out.
#7 THEMNGMNT Sep 23, 2014 21:33:52	Rather than create alternate rules, I would be inclined to simply work with players to modify their characters as they see fit. I think 5E makes this pretty easy. As a DM, I would be inclined to take a liberal approach, so long as it's not ruining the fun of anyone else at the table.
#8 sleypy Sep 24, 2014 7:01:51	Seems like it would be a problem with fighter since the subclass does get the same number of features at the same level. Battlemaster has a extra level 3 feature and champion has a level 18 feature.