I've heard that WotC isn't planning on doing a PHB2, PHB3 for 5e, the way they did for 4e. If this is the case, how are they going to add other player races, like Goliath, Mul, Shardmind, Etc.? Do you guys expect them to release them at all? Should WotC set up more races? Discuss Below.
It is my understanding that they will be relased in books similar to Rise of Timat. Going forward there will be DM products, with information regarding maps, creatures, background information ect. Then there will be a player option with things like new backgrounds, class options, and racial options, including possible subraces and whole new races.
I want a PHB2. Period. I think it's a huge mistake not to introduce new races/subraces, feats (including racial feats), classes/subclasses, etc. in a published adventure/campaign setting free way.
I'm really dissapointed that it seems that player options are going to be tied down to their published adventures (which I have little to no interest in).
Honestly, I'll be surprised if we even get a psionics book, or a setting other than forgettable realms.
As much as I like what I've seen in the 3 core 5e books, it really looks like WotC isn't going to expand this edition like D&D has done in the past. That is sad. D&D has always been the TTRPG with TONS of options spread over many, many books. Books you don't need to enjoy the game, but books that you probably want if you're interested in doing anything different at your table. ie: not a FR/LotR clone.
Lots of stuff is needed, too. IMO we need (just off the top of my head):
- More sorcerer subclasses. 'Dragon' and 'Wild' aren't enough.
- More druid subclasses. (shaman could fit here)
- More Ranger subclasses. (the ranger is the weakest, least thought out class in 5e, IMO)
- More feats, including racial feats for all races.
- Classes like Artificer, Shaman, Warlord, Rune Priest...
- More interesting races, like goliath, warforged, an aquatic race/subrace, minotaur, gith(yanki and zerai), genasi, shaddar-kai, shifter...
- More cleric domains.
- Psionics, dammit!
There's no good reason* to shoehorn all of that piecemeal into campaign settings/adventure paths as they feel like releasing them. Most DM's I know run their own world that heavily borrows from many published settings as well as table group imagination.
The only thing I don't like about 5e is that it takes no risks and seems to be made to cater to a small select group of 40-somethings who cannot fathom (and therefore fear and hate) anyone enjoying anything other than a limited classical fantasy based on Gygaxian D&D, JRR Tokien, and such.
Please, put out a 340 page PHB 2 in a year or so. Or at least let 3rd party developers have the 5e rules so they can get the job done.
*Well, aside from money...Forcing DMs and players to buy a slew of little 'players option' books and/or setting stuff (like how to get 'swordmage' in 4e, you HAD to buy the FR book. That sucked.)
We may find a future "(setting) player's handbook" like the ones from 4th Ed.
I would rather a PH2, PH3, etc... why? Let´s imagine the swordsage from "Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords" comes backs to the 5th Ed in the PH2... what if I would like to buy a sourcebook with new martial maneuvers? Or new vestiges for my binder warlock, or spells for me wu jen or my shugenja PC. Better if the new powers are in the next player's handbook.
I can understand having something like Warforged only be in an Eberron campaign setting book, but having all classes/backgrounds/races in adventures? Ridiculous. Especially if there's only an FR camaign setting, no Eberron and no Dark Sun?! I think it's be far more sensible to have something such as "Races Handbook," "Classes Handbook," etc if not more PHBs.
AukanStonehand wrote:
cbwjm wrote:
cbwjm wrote:
One of the *complaints* about DnD has been the explosion of splatbooks/expansions etc. That the system got too large, too complicated, too easy to exploit, etc. They want to provide optoins, but to avoid the glut.
If they release a Compleat FIghter book... then they have to release one for each class; that *12* books. So how do they accomplish that? If they release them slowly, it means some class is forced to wait 6 years for an update; if they flood the market, it creates the Glut they are trying to avoid. And thats only the class books. Now think about the settings, with their new feats and classes and skills etc.
And if folks want a PHB2 on top of that....??? And adventures...??
Every edition since 2nd has collapsed under its own weight trying to acccomodate all of the huge influx of rules and options. They are trying to avoid that here.
I mean c'mon.... there are already 12 classes, each one has at least 2-3 subclasses, and most of the subclasses can be played multiple different ways depending on what feats, attributes, alignments, and skills you take. Then you can Multi-class them a bazillion ways. Not to mention that little thing referred to as Roleplaying. Leaving us with what... at least 100? 200? different characters you could play? And already, people are compaining that they need "MOAR classes, or this game SUX!"
lawrencehoy wrote:
Calling a supplement "player's handbook", 2, 3, or whatever, carries the implication that "these are core rules every dm should be familiar with and accept into any and every campaign as desired by the players." And that's not a desired implication in the war on bloat. At the same time, it feels like there is a deliberate effort to give this edition a 2nd edition throwback feel, and at the same time to distance itself from 4th. And moving away from having a 1000 page 4 volume PHB seems in keeping with that effort. Yes, there should be lots of supplements. 2nd certainly had plenty.
I think the thing to always remember is that the reason that D&D publishes so many books is that ultimately, revenue only shoots up when there are player options with crunch. And when they feed the revenue stream too much, things eventually go haywire and a new edition needs to come out. That and eventually the person in charge of the mechanics of edition eventually leaves that position and the new person in charge of mechanics has new ideas they want to try out. And again, a new edition pops out.
So they're trying to remove that tightrope by attaching it to adventures. Which probably won't sell well enough to make things happen. And a PHB book will eventually come out as a result...
Personally I would be happy if in one of their upcoming articles they go a little more in depth into how to craft your own option, the DMG was helpful but left plenty of room for error,.Any new classes, skills, backgrounds and feats need to be made optional. Nothing annoye me more as a player, and a Dm for that matter, then listebn to a player go on and on asnd on about wants to play a new class race combo that only they had the rules for and no one wanted to purchase into because they felt it wasn't needed.
Cool off on the splat books for a bit. Collect the online articles into quarterly magazines people can by or something
seti wrote:
seti wrote:
IMO:
Players Handbook Forgotten Realms
Players Handbook Darksun (psions, half-giants, ect...)
Players Handbook Nentir Vale (shaman, runepriest, warlord).
Players Handbook Spell Jammer
Players Handbook Storm Wracked (pirate class, mermaid race, ect..)
Players Handbook Eberon (warforged, artificers).
lawrencehoy wrote:
It's actually starting to amaze me how the title of a book can spark such reactions.
To me, it doesn't matter if it's "Player's Handbook 2" with a subtitle or bit of text on the front of the book indicating it contains elementally themed character options, or one of any other sort of titles like, but not limited to: Adventurer's Handbook (w/elemental theme mentioned), Heroes of the Elements, Elemental Heroes, Complete Elementals, The Elemental Handbook, Elemental Character Options, or The Complete Guide to Elemental-Themed Options that Your Character Might or Might Not Use: Home Brew and Published World Edition.
The important bit in the issue is that I want to be able to have a sense of what sort of content I can expect to find within the book, and I'd much rather the options within share a theme and be a "one stop shop" for that particular theme so as to reduce how many different books a player might need to reference for a character with a singular theme to it (I'd specifically like to avoid the situation I have previously experienced where a character required reference of the Player's Handbook, Complete Arcane, and Complete Mage - which was particularly obnoxious to me considering that the second book existing makes the title of the first look a bit ridiculous).
One last thing that I feel is important, and apologize for missing if anyone has already said:
People are tossing around statements that imply that "play in homebrewed campaign" and "uses published adventures" are mutually exclusive, and they are not.
You can buy published adventures are fit them into your world, or rip out the bits you like and use those as you see fit, or just read for inspiration with which to write your own adventures. In fact, my home-brew world happens to be quite vast - there is plenty of room for my numerous home-brewed lands, a continent which contains the setting materials of Necromancer Games (specifically Rappan Athuk, Bard's Gate, and the related locations), a chain of island nations heavily inspired by the Cthulhu Mythos, an homage to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Lost World deep in some jungle, and even a "What if?" version of the kingdom of Hyrule (in which the triforce is either not real or has yet to be found, "the hero of legend" never showed up, and the "demon king" has conquered and rules with an iron fist... plus I can, and will, drop in any other adventure module that draws my interest with nothing more than a few minutes jotting down replacement names of locations, deities, and NPCs where needed.
From my understanding, with new story arc they will release new books.
For example the next release will be Princes of Apocalypse, an elemental evil story arc in Greyhawk. With this setting they also release the "adventurer handbook's" wich will include new background that fits with Princes of Apocalypse, new spell, feat, probably race, subclass and class related to this new setting.
Then when they bring the story arc 3 next year (In Ebberon maybe) the adventurer handbook won't be allowed anymore, but the Eberon handbook will become legit.
For each story arc players will be able to use only 2 books (PHB1 and the story arc setting book)
This way it will be easier to balance thing out, since they won't have to worry about interaction between Greyhawk campaign book and Eberron campaign book for example. It will be easier for new player to join the fight (no need to buy/read 5 different book about the sorcerer in order to build one, just the PHB and the current campaign setting. It will be easier for DM to oversee it's player (since there is only 2 books to look trought to find out the weird combo the player came out with doesn't work.
And player are "forced" to buy each book (me being a real fan of the sorcerer, I never bought the complete warrior book, since their is nothing I want from that book) but now I'll have to buy every setting book since all of them will have a little something for my sorcerer and it will have to be change on the next story arc since those won't be allowed anymore.
For me, I can understand having Races and Classes in seperate themed books, but my problem would arise if I'd have to buy them in a dozen adventure books, each containing one or two races/classes. CCS and Mommy_was_an_orc are right when they say the adventure books would barely sell otherwise, but that's because they're adventures, something that the DM usually would enjoy putting together themselves.
My friends and I own no adventure books for 4e, but we have almost every book and we have every campaign setting. We refer to adventures as canned campaigns because the DM (at least in 4e) would end up being the driving force in the campaign, rather than the players, not majorly deviating from the book. That was something that 4e did a lot, "by the book." With the 5e books, my groups and DM friends have become attracted to the "**** it, that would be awesome, do it" mentality, rather than the "is that legal?" We've even brought that thinking into our 4e Dark Sun campaign and had our most badass encounter yet. But I digress.
Adventure books are the least interesting books for my friends and I, because we have no use for a "canned campaign." Campaign Settings, however, are something that would be interesting. While we don't necesarily need them, they at least are more of a Continent to walk aroud on than a pre-made dungeon corridor to walk down. My hope is that they would put races and classes (things that would be useful anywhere, like Mul from Dark Sun- all that requires is a human and a Dwarf, so it's not necessarily DS-Exclusive) in Campaign Setting Books if they put them in anything other than a handbook or themed book like "All Things Arcane" or something like that.
Anyway, I had no clue this would spawn so much discussion, I'm glad people at least have opinions on it.
I thik the PLayers Handbook 2,3 etc causeproblems as people assume they have them and retailers do not know which one they need to order.
shpelley wrote:
seti wrote:
lawrencehoy wrote:
I don't. Please do as you are
Elemental guide plus elemental hardback adventure.......then say the same for:
Underdark
Giants
Demons
kingdom builder
urban
Etc.
I'm thinking:
Elemental (so far)
Psionic
Artifice
Horror
Kingdom
Maybe cultural...? ...though, these days, that seems to cause hysteria.
I find this thread kind of hillarious. Don't get me wrong - I get impatient waiting for my microwaved popcorn just like everyone else - but come on. Have a little patience! See what the new books have to offer before going all balistic.
I'd rather have them take their time and do it right than just throw out product to fill a quota or to have an explicit goal of a new PHB every year.
OoftaMeg wrote:
AukanStonehand wrote:
AukanStonehand wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
AukanStonehand wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
OH, I've been reading your messages, but I just haven't replied to any of them. Balic and Altaruk are city-states in the Tyr region in the Dark Sun Campaign setting. Aukan is my Goliath Fighter in that setting, and he hates those two cities.
AukanStonehand wrote:
pukunui wrote:
edwin_su wrote:
In my dream of dreams, they will release a yearly "Player's Option Sourcebook" and in it will be additions to the base information in the PHB: hence, there will be a chapter with new subraces, or new races; the same for classes; new equipment and weapons; then magic; then other bonus goodies, like using monsters as PCs, a Psionics section, etc. In between that, let the adventures and campaign settings introduce new items that may or may not make their way in to the P.O.S.'s at the end of the year.
O, yeah: you didn't think I was going to use that acronym?
I guess the name "Player's Handbook 2" irritated me, for some reason.
I am afraid regardless of the method to expand content, via PHB, Adventure Paths, etc. that you will see more content offered to casters via spells, then magic items, and maybe a few more feats. I believe if they did include maneuvers or an equivalent mechanic in the game for martial classes, the potential to see equal content for all classes to expand would be greater and more interestiing.
pukunui wrote:
joeburgos wrote:
joeburgos wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Samrin wrote:
@YetiMoose : Has Adventurer's Handbook been canceled? http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?408983-Has-ADVENTURER-S-HANDBOOK-Been-Cancelled …
@mikemearls : We can't cancel a book we never announced!
@Morrus : Interesting. You guys made ad copy and designed a cover for it, though?
@mikemearls : we do a lot of stuff that may or may not end up as a released product.
@mikemearls : we've played things close to the vest is that it's a huge, open question on what support for the RPG should look like
@mikemearls : for instance, we now know that the high volume release schedule for 3e and 4e turned out to be bad for D&D
That's too bad that it got canceled. On the plus side, though, we'll now be getting the stuff that was meant to go in it for free! And let me tell you, there's some pretty cool stuff in there. I'm keen to see the final versions of some of the new races and spells.
I didn't mind the 3E softcover, thinner splatbooks like Defenders of the Faith, Tome & Blood, Song & Silence, Sword & Fist, and Masters of the Wild.
Synjin wrote:
DungeonKrusher wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
pukunui wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Brock_Landers wrote:
I'd have been up for a 64 page soft cover saddle stitched book running $15 as a players' companion to the new adventure. I'm not saying I'd buy it as I'm not interested in the campaign. However, I think most of the players in the HotDQ/RoT campaign I'm playing in would buy it. The only one who bought HotDQ/RoT was the DM.