Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jet_jaguar Oct 07, 2014 3:46:02	Up through third level, I've been finding in general that the encounter building tools are leading to very weak challenges for my players.  The monster group tends to live for three turns at best, and in the case of hordes of smaller monsters, many of them are dead before they even get to attack.  I think the amount of damage that monsters do is commensurate with their challenge rating, but they're just not staying on their feet long enough to deliver it. I'm considering doubling monster hit points, but I have a question for DMs who may have advanced further in the system than we have: does this problem get any better at higher levels?  If I set this rule now, am I going to completely hose my players further down the line?
#2 Acrilos Oct 07, 2014 4:27:58	If you take  the average hit points for your monsters, you may consider increasing up to their maximum.   To keep a certain randomness and to surprise my players, I roll hit point for each monster. I keep the rolled result if it is above the average hit points given in the stat block. Some monsters are tougher than others, even in a group of similar creatues.   Even when doing this, the pace of combat is quick and players do not take for granted the average hit points of the monsters they encounter.
#3 jet_jaguar Oct 07, 2014 5:28:10	Acrilos wrote:
#4 iserith Oct 07, 2014 6:35:54	It's possible to make very challenging encounters with monsters that have only 1 hit point and that do no damage.   I give you: Seahorse Run!
#5 bawylie Oct 07, 2014 6:44:25	I don't know how you're setting up, but consider obstacles. Blocking & difficult terrain, elevations, murder holes & kill boxes. In a really hard fight, I like to make my monsters largely unreachable for 2 or so rounds.
#6 CCS Oct 07, 2014 8:23:11	jet_jaguar wrote:
#7 Dracones Oct 07, 2014 9:44:21	jet_jaguar wrote:
#8 BW0222 Oct 07, 2014 11:13:55	jet_jaguar wrote:
(Reply to #6) Timborama	CCS wrote:
#10 Mistwell Oct 07, 2014 12:48:15	jet_jaguar wrote:
#11 ChrisCarlson Oct 07, 2014 13:13:34	Mistwell wrote:
#12 Illithidbix Oct 07, 2014 13:17:21	Kinda wondering:   What difficult of encounters are you throwing at players?   How many encounters/rest? - Are they regually going in fresh?   How many players do you have?    Have you tried upping the difficulty on standard encounters?   Are players taking the hits back, or are they mostly unscathed?    Are the players themselves finding it too easy or do they enjoy it? - This is the super important question.     - If you want to keep the number of fights relatively restrained bettween rests then sure, makes sense to have a longer encounter rather swamping them or throwing something too nasty for them to cope with.
#13 Timborama Oct 07, 2014 13:23:23	Also, OP, how many rounds SHOULD a combat take...? With and without a surprise round for either side.   I read you saying "3 rounds" and heard that from many people as well, but you're the only one I hear from that says that's too short!
#14 jet_jaguar Oct 07, 2014 14:31:12	Timborama wrote:
#15 Shadewyn Oct 07, 2014 14:35:36	jet_jaguar wrote:
#16 jet_jaguar Oct 07, 2014 14:38:23	Illithidbix wrote:
#17 jet_jaguar Oct 07, 2014 14:42:55	Right now, our shape-shifting druid seems to be a real problem.  She can basically turn into a 38 HP meat shield, and when those points are gone, she just transforms back into normal form with her old hit point total.  It feels a little broken, as she just took the brunt of the boss' damage while everybody else flung ranged attacks and spells.  He went down in three rounds, with the net effect of having done no damage at all.
#18 iserith Oct 07, 2014 14:44:19	Or keep the monsters as-is but make the challenge about something for which hit point whittling isn't necessarily the best possible solution.
#19 Mistwell Oct 07, 2014 15:39:53	If you're really having trouble with this, increase the CR.  If they are level 4, hit them with CR 5 creatures.
(Reply to #9) CCS	Timborama wrote:
#21 Noon Oct 07, 2014 21:03:38	When you say 'challenging' you mean 'takes X% of hitpoints/resources'?   Something can be challenging without having done any damage at all (because they all miss).   It just depends on whether the players know they got lucky or whether they thought it not challenging but really you rolled a bunch of 1's.
#22 ChrisCarlson Oct 08, 2014 6:44:19	Starter Set Spoiler below:   ---   My 1st-level foppish rapier-wielding duelist fighter solo'ed the bugbear in the goblin cave in part 1 of the adventure. Not because I'm that awesome. But because I got lucky (both with my own rolls and the bugbear rolling crud for several rounds). I know full well I got lucky even though it ended up "feeling" like an easy fight. I could have easily been killed at any moment.
#23 iserith Oct 08, 2014 6:45:38	Frederico?!
#24 ChrisCarlson Oct 08, 2014 7:16:10	No, that guy's unfortunately stuck in prehistoric times. This is Karlistigan Ignacius Lucien Montenue Artimen Del Gato IV. Disappointment to his nobleman father. Letch extraordinaire.
#25 FFSAA Oct 08, 2014 8:21:33	jet_jaguar wrote:
#26 jet_jaguar Oct 09, 2014 21:15:32	FFSAA wrote:
#27 Kravell Oct 10, 2014 6:01:22	jet_jaguar wrote:
#28 Kravell Oct 10, 2014 6:02:48	In another combat, the five 16th-level PCs fought five blue slaads. They were hard to kill and their chaotic natures made damaging spells difficult against them them. That fight was challenging but not deadly which was the right level of danger.
#29 Zardnaar Oct 10, 2014 6:29:21	And no one believed me when I said the monsters were weak sauce and the encounter building guidelines are best ignored.
#30 UngeheuerLich Oct 10, 2014 12:04:57	I would say, hp are high enough. In all encounters, monsters pulled their weight. I would rather say, the final monsters have more than enough hp, low level spells do a bit too much damage and melee damage is a bit low at level 4.   I guess level 4 parties and monsters and level 10 monsters have rather high survivability by comparison, level 1, 5 and 11 monsters and players have comparably low survivability compared to the damage output. Especially if no feats are used. That at least is what we noticed.   Instead of increasing monster hp smoothly over all levels, I´d consider giving everyone a bonus equal to their constitution score at level 1, 6 times their constituion bonus at level 5 and 11,  4 times their constitution bonus at level 17 and not give constituion bonus to hp at every other level, doing the same for monsters.   This qould give many monsters a few more hp to play with. No monster had only 1 hp, although some faries will still be quite low.
(Reply to #29) AaronOfBarbaria	Zardnaar wrote:
#32 Brock_Landers Oct 10, 2014 22:20:23	Just push up the HP (lots of leeway in the "official" system), everyone likes brown sauce.
#33 caridhor Oct 11, 2014 2:08:45	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #33) UngeheuerLich	caridhor wrote:
#35 sleypy Oct 11, 2014 6:07:43	caridhor wrote:
#42 neomahakala108 Oct 13, 2014 1:21:20	increasing monsters' hit points challenges mages & changes their playstyle to support role.   in D&D 3 NWN1 a 'Hold Person' spell was especially useful in environment as that.