Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pukunui Dec 22, 2014 20:34:33	Hi guys,   While reading through the DMG, I noticed that the two magical pipes (pipes of haunting and pipes of the sewers) require "proficiency with wind instruments" to use. However, according to the PHB, you can't gain proficiency in a category of musical instruments. You have to select specific instruments. So do you think one would have to be proficient with pipes to use those magic items, or would proficiency with any wind instrument suffice?   Alternatively, what about a house rule that changes musical instrument proficiency from specific instruments to categories - wind, string, etc? I can't see that being terribly overpowered.
#2 Kentus Dec 22, 2014 21:02:30	Do as your DM says.   Normally I think both is fine. If any wind instrument grants you the power to use these pipes, it's magic. If you have simply proficiency in a type of instrument, like wind instruments it's talent. ;)
#3 pukunui Dec 22, 2014 22:08:49	Kentus wrote:
#4 OrwellianHaggis Dec 23, 2014 0:43:50	I think instrument proficiency by type, as you suggest, makes most sense.
#5 Reius Dec 23, 2014 0:52:47	As a trained and educated musician, if you put pretty much any type of stringed or keyboard instrument in front of me, I'll be able to make music for you. It might take a bit of fiddling aound, but as long they're built to work with some sort of consistent or recognizable underlying musical theory, I'll figure it out. But, give me my instrument of choice and I'll knock your socks off.   Maybe proficiency within your instrument's family, advantage and prof with your instrument of choice?
#6 pukunui Dec 23, 2014 1:29:01	Sounds all right. But remember, we're talking about a game where proficiency with Athletics makes you equally as good at climbing, jumping, and swimming. Why not the same with various musical instruments of the same type?
#7 Reius Dec 23, 2014 3:20:30	Sure. I thought the extra advantage with your chosen specialty might reflect that extra bit of training and specialization. Like if your character was particularly trained and proficient with swimming (for some reason similar to a bard's training), then maybe the DM might houserule advantage for swim checks but not for climbing. Either way.
#8 AaronOfBarbaria Dec 23, 2014 7:32:16	Another musician chiming in (sorry for the pun): I think proficiency by category of instrument is a reasonable approach, since there is a lot of natural overlap as Reius was saying and the number of instruments your character is actually capable of playing is unlikely to equate to any significant difference in power.
#9 guachi Dec 23, 2014 7:35:12	Check out the bards handbook from 2e. It has instruments broken down by category and it might be of some help. If I weren't on vacation, I'd be tempted to post the instrument list. Or check out Wikipedia. They have a nice list of instruments by type.
#10 iserith Dec 23, 2014 11:04:16	I think you can keep tool proficiencies specific to the instrument, but as long the characters has tool proficiency in a wind instrument (horns, trumpets, trombones, flutes, clarinets, etc.), the character can use the magic items you referenced in the first post too.