Apologies if that question has already been asked. (I did a forum search and came up with nothing, so ...)
But comparing it to arcane evocation spells even a couple levels lower, like:
- Delayed Blast Fireball (12d6, possible +1d6, 7th level)
- Sunburst (12d6 + blind, 8th level)
Both spells cast with a Lv. 9 slot do 14d6 base. A jump to 40d6 for Meteor Swarm just seems awfully ... drastic. Was it a misprint on the damage entries and the spell was meant to be 20d6 total? (So 10d6 fire + 10d6 bludgeoning?) 20d6 would still be really powerful for a pure damage 9th-level AoE.
Answers? Perhaps the first item up for errata?
It really seems intentional. This is the big boom that you can get if you put everything into it. Since you only ever get one ninth-level spell slot, they can go ahead and make it over the top.
Remember, by the time you gain access to this, you have to deal with the wish spell. You might even know the wish spell. This has to be comparable.
Don't mess with 17th+ level wizards. They can nuke your town. 
FallingIcicle wrote:
I'm ok with it...If my melee guys can also do 40d6, or 30d10, or whatever, with no attack roll, save for half, to at least one target. 
But...yeah. It seems irrational. f**k rolling 40d6. if I ever actually have to DM that, I'll just say..."FINE they all die. Except for that one guy who now gets a 10d6 sneak attack with a crit on a 14+ roll."
Sorry, but, in my game no one rolls more dice than can fit in a pint glass for damage. Ever.
PS: the WIsh spell should not be, IMO. Unless you really want it. I don't, so it's illegal at my table. No one minds, lol. The only person I ever met in person who thought the Wish spell was a good idea was a crazy rules lawyer, power gamer, and all around jerk to everyone he played with. Not that everyone who likes god-spells is like that, of course. But, honestly..The game is not about being like that for me.
seti wrote:
Welcome to Magic in D&D. Been here long?
Meteor Swarm is indeed powerful. But if I understand correctly, Delayed Blast Fireball, cast as 9th level and kept for the entire duration of 10 rounds, would be 14+10=24d6, and eg Disintergrate at 9th is 19d6+40 (comparable to 30d6), although only on one target. So at least some spells come a bit closer ...
The tradeoff:
A prepared Fireball, at level 20, is a potential 154 dice of damage over 15 castings. A prepared Meteor Swarm is a potential 40 dice of damage over 1 casting. In the action economy, Meteor Swarm is of course the more efficient option. But if preparation slots for area damage spells are at a premium in your character, a lower-level spell might turn out to be a better option.
TiaNadiezja wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
I have an ARMY!
I memorized meteor swarm.
Brimleydower wrote:
kalil wrote:
40*3.5 (average d6 damage) = 140 damage (save for 70), on average, and you've shot your wad.
A 20th great-weapon level fighter, on the other hand, is hitting for 2d6+(5 to 6) per attack, rerolling 1s and 2s, for an average of 14 damage per hit... times 4 attacks per round, which is 56 damage on average, PLUS he can Action Surge twice per short rest, potentially doubling the total damage output in a round, for a total of 112 damage altogether, not counting misses or crits.
And that's something the fighter can do twice per encounter. It almost meets the damage of Meteor Swarm, which is a daily spell.
Novacat wrote:
Cyber-Dave wrote:
CVB wrote:
Novacat wrote:
Novacat wrote:
seti wrote:
Cyber-Dave wrote:
40d6 is only 140 damage (and with that many dice, I wouldn't ever bother rolling them all, I'd just use average values, the adding up is just going to take too long out of the game). It's not (THAT) much. Not when compared to, say, Wish.
But then, direct damage spells aren't the things that make spellcasters get overpowered, it's utility spells like scrying, teleporting, Wish...
Daganev wrote:
Cyber-Dave wrote:
Meteor Swarm is the fantasy equivalent to calling in an air strike. Of course its going to decimate ground forces. That's the point.
Spells are like the technology of D&D. So, you have to think around the technology, instead of trying to brute force it.
Also, you're better off sending the army against the evil cleric. Rogues do better against wizards than clerics, and fighters better against clerics than wizards, I find.
Daganev wrote:
CVB wrote:
Meteor Swarm looks dang cool. I hope to see it in action someday.
I expect to have just as much fun as a Paladin, when the day comes. I like the grass on my side just as much, thank you. 
Hopefully, my Wizard neighbor isn't sighing wistfully at all the cool things I can do that they can't and they enjoy what's good on their side of the fence, too.
A rogue that saves takes no damage, and reflex saves are fairly easy for rogues. Also, meteor swarm destroys (well damages, but at 20d6 bludgeoning + 20d6 fire damages is basically the same as destroys) all objects in its massive area. Its basically the spell to use against an army or giants, a fortress, a castle, or the like. But do not cast it at the ancient dragon that is sitting on its massive hoard of treasure, because you will destroy all of the treasure.
Used correctly, I think that Gate would be superior, since it is more flexible. But it would also be harder to use. You would have to bargain with an inevitable or eldarin or the like.
Note finally that against a single entity with a good reflex save or immunity to fire, power word kill is better.
17th level is where players become true Heros of the planet. I have no problem with Meteor Swarm. I also think a lot of other classes get some pretty cool features at 17th level (fighter gets two action surges per short rest 
).
If you just don't want to deal with all those dice, you can replace 20d6 by 5d12+38, and keep the same average and standard deviation to pretty good accuracy.
Eh, why bother with errata or house rules for that? A rogue at the same level might not even take any damage from the meteor swarm, and a fighter at the same level is somewhat unlikely to even be knocked unconscious on a failed saving throw.
High level wizards are dangerous. High level Rogues are dangerous. High level Fighters are dangerous. High level pretty much anything is probably dangerous.
The main value to me of D&D is consistency. If I just wanted rules I liked, I could make up an entire set of rules. The issue is that it would then be much more difficult to find people who wanted to play.
Speaking of rogues, they too can roll 40d6 damage in a typical battle. It's just over four attacks. Like I said before, it only seems like it's better because the wizard is doing it all at once.
A lot of Wizards aren't just going to throw damage spells all day long. Personally, I find a hell of a lot more use casting utility and control spells rather than straight damage. There's a time and a place, of course, but I'm rarely if ever going to memorize Meteor Swarm when I have other spells available. Just judging from the basic spells, I would much rather have Foresight or Time Stop than Meteor Swarm and I would imagine I would find more times to memorize Imprisonment than Meteor Swarm.
Damage spells are very weak in a lot of situations compared to what you can accomplish with utility spells. I'd rather cast Fly than Fireball most of the time.
FallingIcicle wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Eeh, only editions I have experience with is 3.x and 4e.
And no offense to you, but the phrase "better balanced than 3.x" is about as helpful a statement to me as "drier than water."
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Novacat wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Novacat wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Novacat wrote:
Meteor swarm is pretty powerful. I would have left the damage alone because I believed the range and area made it worth the 9th level slot and that it covered army trashing well enough. C'est la vie. I think I might have been a minority opinion on that one.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
The Wizard has time to buff up with non-concentration spells. He can even wait a minute or two if he needs to so they don't expire.
Or if the Wizard really needs to, again, he can simply teleport to the other side of the planet and force it into a draw.
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Novacat wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
You did, in fact, put the Fighter a mile from the Wizard. Right here.
Novacat wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Novacat wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Novacat wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
Novacat wrote:
seti wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
JC999 wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
JC999 wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Of course the Wizard then has to spend the rest of his existance avoiding the special forces sent by the ICC to bring him to justice for using a WMD on a civilian target........ 
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EnglishLanguage wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
Not sure where that image is coming from, but the Basic D&D rules - which is the most up-to-date version we have until the PHB's final draft gets from printers to players - has Mordenkainen's Sword as Concentration.
The number of non-concentration buffs is very, very low. Good luck with that.
EnglishLanguage wrote:
FallingIcicle wrote:
JC999 wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
I like playing fighters and I am not at all phased by the one wizard nuke per day that exceeds my damage. Several factors balance this in my experience from playing past editions on how battles actually happen outside of a vacum.
1: if the fighter isnt there interceding the oncoming wave of enemies the wizard dies.
2: The wizards can't cast the spell whenever they want. Allies and NPCs or important Mcguffins (town) and even the wizard themselves may be harmed by haphazard placement. Try casting a massive spell in a cave or enclosed chamber, a good DM will take the topography into account.
3: Enemies can cast it too and after the boom wizard down, fighter continues to fight.
4: I find the melee playstyle more satisfying and don't really care if the wizard can 1 shot 150 ogres. The wizard is doing their job as my follower by clearing the chaff so I can face the true villain. (response to the idea that fighters are the followers meant to illustrate a different aka my view.)
5: Having played from 2nd ed. through 4th, I never felt outclassed in damage by a wizard. They spike damage and Weapons classes always held their own. The only spells that were unbalanced were the single roll save or lose spells that were really just a matter of throwing out magical energy until something sticks and then fight is over by arbitrary game mechanic (sv. vs. death on elder dragon) Damage just accrued towards victory.
Battles are not simply 400 hd placed randomly on a battle map in a burst formation with the party starting in a 3x3 square in the corner. If your games are like that then there is so much more to experience.
FallingIcicle wrote:
Caliburn101. wrote:
JC999 wrote:
Novacat wrote:
seti wrote:
DLfan wrote:
thespaceinvader wrote:
Caliburn101. wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
I'm still laughing about the time the wizard dropped a nuke on the fighter, then ran away before the fighter could curbstomp him. I bet he went straight home to tell his toad familiar all about how he "won" that one...
Saelorn wrote:
EnglishLanguage wrote:
Novacat wrote:
Novacat wrote:
Saelorn wrote:
Sturmunddrang wrote:
Saelorn wrote: