Flame channeler
- Your intelligence, charisma, or wisdom increases by +1 up to a maximum of 20.
- You may ignite any weapon you wield as part of your movement or as part of your attack with that weapon, any weapon ignited in this fashion has the fire type instead of it's normal damage type. In addition the weapon acts as a torch, unless you are underwater, in which case the damage still applies but little light is generated.
- You may end this effect at any time without spending any kind of action.
- When rolling fire damage you may select one target to take an additional amount of damage equal to twice your proficiency modifier once between rests.
Yes.
Edit: it's like a magic weapon you can take as a feat; it's a no-brainer for just about every class.
I would assume for flavour reasons this feat is restricted to those with an ability to cast spells (inc cantrips).
I think it's underpowered. All it does is cause fire damage and +prof damage once/rest. Compared to shield master, lucky, polearm master, even martial adept or magic initiate, alert or observant, it's very average.
I would also give it a half stat bonus (+1 int, wis or cha, whatever the PC's casting stat is).
Alternatively I would also throw in the cantrip Firebolt or one of the other fire cantrips.
durntaur wrote:
I'd also say underpowered. Whoo, fire damage...doesn't seem like fire vulnerability or mundane resistance come up all that much. But of course that's totally up to the DM.
It's fine
rampant wrote:
You need a duration on igniting the weapon. Trading one bonus action for a one-time +2 - +5 damage from two-weapon fighting. Spending a bonus action for a permanent +2 - +5 damage each round is very overpowered, because it synergizes with other bonus action things.
At higher levels in an otherwise low-magic campaign, the feat might be a useful way to get around creatures that resist/ignore weapon damage, but other uses of bonus actions will likely be stronger. Adding your proficiency bonus to damage once before a rest isn't very exciting either. Balance-wise it's fine, but I prefer options that let me do things, personally.
RCanine wrote:
Farmer42 wrote:
RCanine wrote:
I agree with others who say that it's not overpowered, especially given the prevalence of resistance to fire. I think you can even pare down some of the costs and keep it from being overpowered. I would actually go with the following:
Flame channeler
- You may ignite any weapon you wield as part of your movement or as part of your attack with that weapon, any weapon ignited in this fashion has the fire type added to its normal damage type.
- You may end this effect at any time without spending any kind of action.
- You may add you rproficiency modifer to the damage roll of any spell or attack you cast/make that deals fire damage, you may use this ability once before taking a rest.
You could even change the last item to the following if you wanted to prevent a spike of damage:
- You may add half your proficiency modifer to the damage roll of any spell or attack you cast/make that deals fire damage.
How about this?
Flame channeler
- You may ignite any weapon you wield as part of your movement or as part of your attack with that weapon, any weapon ignited in this fashion has the fire type instead of it's normal damage type.
- You may end this effect at any time without spending any kind of action.
- You may add your proficiency modifer to the damage roll of any spell or attack you cast/make that deals fire damage, you may use this ability once before taking a rest.
I didn't want to add a constant damage boost because I don't like those kinds of flat bonuses and 5e feats generally want some sort of price paid like a bonus action or a an accuracy penalty to get that sort fo thing. The reason for using fire instead of the nomarl type rather than with the normal type is because the 5e rules are set up so that if you resist a piercing attack you also resist a fire-piercing attack I wanted the fire thing to be somewhat useful afterall.
Hmmm I should probably mention they can use it as a torch, would being able to use it to set stuff on fire be a good thing to include?
rampant wrote:
Should I mention it CAN'T be used to set things on fire?
As for Underwater i was thinking you could get the damage but it nukes the light.
Also: No it is not limited to casters, that would be boring.
rampant wrote:
I can't find the rules for settign stuff on fire in my books, so I can't figure out how powerful it is.
The feat is weak. Using it to start fires doesn't make it stronger. Keep in mind, it only affects successful hits with the damage, so it tends to be worse than the +2 stat bonus characters recieve at level, since that will increase to hit AND damage in an offensive stat. You haven't made up for the sustained negative impact in the choice with it as written.
Ok How would I do so?
rampant wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Hmmm the extra spike damage seems more fun, but the attibute mod is probably more generally appealing...
Flame channeler
- You may ignite any weapon you wield as part of your movement or as part of your attack with that weapon, any weapon ignited in this fashion has the fire type instead of it's normal damage type. In addition the weapon acts as a torch, unless you are underwater, in which case the damage still applies but little light is generated.
- You may end this effect at any time without spending any kind of action.
- You may add 1d8 to the damage roll of any spell or attack you cast/make that deals fire damage, you may use this ability once before taking a rest. At level 5 you may add 2d8 damage, at level 11 you may add 3d8, and at level 17 you may add 4d8.
-or-
Flame channeler
- Your intelligence increases by +1 up to a maximum of 20.
- You may ignite any weapon you wield as part of your movement or as part of your attack with that weapon, any weapon ignited in this fashion has the fire type instead of it's normal damage type. In addition the weapon acts as a torch, unless you are underwater, in which case the damage still applies but little light is generated.
- You may end this effect at any time without spending any kind of action.
- You may add your proficiency modifer to the damage roll of any spell or attack you cast/make that deals fire damage, you may use this ability once before taking a rest.
rampant wrote:
Hmmm what makes it best for casters?
Once per rest it will effectively double the melee damage of wizards and sorcerers, if not tripple, depending on their weapon choice. It also gives druids, clerics, and paladins new ways to vary their damage without having to sacrifice multiple weapon slots. On top of that, it eliminates the need for light as a cantrip. For half casters, it will, as mentioned, allow them to diversify damage types.
And that's the raw mechanics. In terms of flavor, while it might LOOK cool, it isn't something that most purely martial characters will choose. It's nifty mechanically, but it isn't super powerful, and being able to light a sword on fire is VERY specific. Also, it's closer to spont casting or divine casting than studied magic, so if you want to tie it to one atribute, Cha or Wis are the better options.
From a purely metagame standpoint, the tripple stat choice is, as I mentioned, consistant with how similar feets impact martial characters, rewarding Str or Dex to allow parity in build. By tying it just to Int, you're ensuring that most non-Int casters will look elsewhere for feats since there are better ways to get magic or elemental damage for them. When designing a flavor based feat, it should be as generally applicable as possible.
That whole first paragraph doesn't make any sense? Is there any reason why this feat (prior to the improved spike damage or the attribute mod) would have been better for mages?
Flame channeler
- You may ignite any weapon you wield as part of your movement or as part of your attack with that weapon, any weapon ignited in this fashion has the fire type instead of it's normal damage type. In addition the weapon acts as a torch, unless you are underwater, in which case the damage still applies but little light is generated.
- You may end this effect at any time without spending any kind of action.
- You may add 1d8 to the damage roll of any spell or attack you cast/make that deals fire damage, you may use this ability once before taking a rest. At level 5 you may add 2d8 damage, at level 11 you may add 3d8, and at level 17 you may add 4d8.
-or-
Flame channeler
- Your intelligence, charisma, or wisdom increases by +1 up to a maximum of 20.
- You may ignite any weapon you wield as part of your movement or as part of your attack with that weapon, any weapon ignited in this fashion has the fire type instead of it's normal damage type. In addition the weapon acts as a torch, unless you are underwater, in which case the damage still applies but little light is generated.
- You may end this effect at any time without spending any kind of action.
- You may add your proficiency modifer to the damage roll of any spell or attack you cast/make that deals fire damage, you may use this ability once before taking a rest.
Hmmmm still not sure which version to use.
If you just want fire damage and 1/day damage spike, just go simple:
Flame channeler
You are able to create fire through sheer force of will. Magical flames encircle any weapon you hold and ammunition you fire; when you deal damage with a weapon, you may choose to do fire damage instead of the weapon's normal damage. You know the produce flame cantrip, and you may cast burning hands once per day as a first level spell. Constitution is the your spellcasting ability for these spells.
i never said 1/day.
Also a damage dealing daily spell is a horrible feat power when no up casting methoods are availiable.
rampant wrote:
RCanine wrote:
First level and second level damaging spells are sort of out paced by cantrip damage at certain points, especially for classes that get to add stat mod and save for half to cantrip damage. Dragonborn breath scales, as do cantrips, so this damage should scale if it's once per short rest.
So which is better the increased damage spike or the attribute mod?
rampant wrote:
Ok so there's not a dramatic power disparity between the two and one isn't a dramatically better designed/more balanced feat than the other?
Maybe not what you are looking for, but one completely alternative way to do this is to make a cantrip that is a variant of Shilleagh that applies the flaming effect to a weapon. Anyone could pick this cantrip up using one of the spellcaster multiclass feats or just taking it as a cantrip.
Well I don't want to force them to be casters, and magic initiate gives two cantrips and a 1st level spell, although That does indicate that the feat may still be underpowered.
I like the second version (in the OP) better; if it still seems underpowered (and it probably is), you could adjust the final "bullet" point to either add "twice your proficiency bonus" or allow that feature to be used "a number of times equal to your appropriate ability modifier" before taking a Short or Long rest. You could go with proficiency bonus and multiple uses and it still wouldn't be overpowered, in my opinion; feats are meant to be a pretty big deal in 5th Edition.
Well what if we steal another little bit from Shilleagh and added a component where they can use a mental stat to wield the weapon?
So something like this then?
Flame channeler
- Your intelligence, charisma, or wisdom increases by +1 up to a maximum of 20.
- You may ignite any weapon you wield as part of your movement or as part of your attack with that weapon, any weapon ignited in this fashion has the fire type instead of it's normal damage type. In addition the weapon acts as a torch, unless you are underwater, in which case the damage still applies but little light is generated.
- You may end this effect at any time without spending any kind of action.
- You may add twice your proficiency modifer to the damage roll of any spell or attack you cast/make that deals fire damage, you may use this ability once before taking a rest.
rampant wrote:
Yes it is, I'm also considering some more feats to develop the ability further such as rays, special effects, etc. but a good starting point is crucial.
Definitely doesn't seem OP to me.
rampant wrote:
Ok how about this:
Flame channeler
- Your intelligence, charisma, or wisdom increases by +1 up to a maximum of 20.
- You may ignite any weapon you wield as part of your movement or as part of your attack with that weapon, any weapon ignited in this fashion has the fire type instead of it's normal damage type. In addition the weapon acts as a torch, unless you are underwater, in which case the damage still applies but little light is generated.
- You may end this effect at any time without spending any kind of action.
- When rolling fire damage you may select one target to take an additional amount of damage equal to twice your proficiency modifier once between rests.
'Overpowered' isn't really a meaningful concern. If you really want a player or players to take a homebrew feat, making it a little overpowered is one way to make that happen. Likwise, if there's a player with a concept like 'fire mage' who's turning out to be a bit hobbled relative to less focused casters, an overpowered feat or an item could be just the thing to keep him viable.
rampant wrote:
The 5e rules are why I went with replacement rather than admixtured damage, in 5e if you resist one damage type of a dual typed attack you resist the whole thing. I am now currently worried the feat may be underpowered.
When I homebrew I try to make it as balanced as possible within the parameters set by the game. I want my stuff to be cool enough to play without resorting to making it OP, plus it means DMs are more likely to let me play my homebrew when I take a turn on the player side of the screen.
rampant wrote:
Ok the rules are on page 197 of the phb. However the bit I took to mean that if you resist one damage type of a dual typed attack you resist the whole thing are actually talking about what happens if you resist two aspects of an attack.
I'm not certain 5e has rules for dual type damage.
rampant wrote:
Dwarfslayer wrote:
you could convert the proficiency modifier into bonus dice, or a dice attack, that way it would look something like this:
+2 = 1d4
+3 = 1d6
+4 = 1d8
+5 = 1d10
+6 = 1d12
Then the dice would be subject to critical doubles.
Gheshwhitewolf wrote:
Macv12 wrote:
I dunno, that kind of permanent damage buff seems exatly like somehting a 5e feat shouldn't be doing.
rampant wrote: