Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Slit518 Jul 12, 2015 17:42:44	And you want the heroes' ultimate fight to be against Ancalagon the Black.   How do you stat it, the dragon out?
#2 Elfcrusher Jul 12, 2015 19:15:51	Step 1, Cut a hole in the box.   Step 2, Play "The One Ring" instead.
#3 MechaPilot Jul 12, 2015 19:30:48	Elfcrusher wrote:
#4 Delazar78 Jul 13, 2015 3:59:08	judging by this image:   http://38.media.tumblr.com/af54f46619c4ac5fc6814192b91973fe/tumblr_inline_n566mddoUH1rnzruw.jpg   Ancalagon must be a few hundred meters long... I don't think that's something you can kill with blades or fireballs.   I guess a fight against him would require the summoning of a Valar, or at least a few Maia. Or some kind of continent-shaking elven primordial magic, song-of-creation kind of power.   Or maybe try to lure him in between two cliffs, and use Durin's Bane to make the mountainsides fall on him.   Earendil had an army of great eagles + their king when they fought him... and still just by looking at the sheer size of Ancalagon I cannot fathom how they defeated him.
#5 dave2008 Jul 13, 2015 4:38:09	You could stat the big A, but what would be the point?  The PCs in 5e just can't handle something like that.  Now, if you want to nerf it, then use the dmg and start w/ CR 30 monster.  I also redid Tiamat as CR 35 and 40 monster by extrapolating the HP/AC/DMG/attack bonus from the chart in the DMG.  But again, that level of power is beyond what the PCs can defeat.
(Reply to #5) tubadancross	dave2008 wrote:
(Reply to #6) dave2008	tubadancross wrote:
#8 The_Jester Jul 13, 2015 9:52:22	Wow... considering Smaug is already 4x the size of a Great Wyrm, that's huge. We're talking ridiculous huge. Like a mountain or a Star Destroyer.  Which, paradoxically, actually makes it easier to kill, since you could crawl inside him and stab him in the brain.
#9 iserith Jul 13, 2015 10:05:35	Slit518 wrote:
#10 edwin_su Jul 13, 2015 10:55:24	The_Jester wrote:
#11 bawylie Jul 13, 2015 11:04:56	I used him differently. He was the black dragon aspect of Tiamat & appeared as a recurring antagonist disguised as a man in a black suit.    As play proceeded, the players eventually successfully uncovered his true nature, and Tiamat's manipulation of current events. They were able to piece together her master plan by attributing various goings-on as five different goals being pursued by 5 different 'aspects', even though they were only involved in 1.    Anyway, consider its role in the game prior to statting it out.
(Reply to #4) Lord_Ventnor	Delazar78 wrote:
#13 edwin_su Jul 13, 2015 12:40:34	Delazar78 wrote:
#14 Imaculata Jul 13, 2015 13:41:33	Eventually a creature is so big, that statting it becomes pointless. It also doesn't seem a whole lot of fun to directly fight something that is that powerful. I would either go with Iserith's suggestion and make it a dungeon, or have the players defeat it in some other indirect way. You'd have to get really creative with the environment. And perhaps it becomes more a case of managing armies against this powerful threat, rather than a one-on-one.
#15 The_White_Sorcerer Jul 13, 2015 14:43:44	I'd stat him as essentially a moving dungeon.
#16 Slit518 Jul 13, 2015 15:40:51	The_Jester wrote:
#17 EthanSental Jul 13, 2015 19:05:59	I'd have to look to see if he was stat' up in the old MERP and compare it to what they have for Smaug, with Smaug being an ancient red dragon.
#18 EthanSental Jul 14, 2015 18:51:03	found it in my Creature of Middle-Earth bestiary. Might want to bring an army.   Using MERP levels as a comparison Ancalagon - 100 Glaurung - 85 smaug - 66 moria balrog - 36
#19 Orethalion Jul 14, 2015 20:22:49	You don't stat him out.  You use a silmaril or some other first age elven or dwarven creation that allows the PCs to defeat him.