My gamer friends and I were discussing how we might run a level 0 5e session.
Here's a few ideas we settled on, please tell me what you think.
PCs have stats and a background, but are classless. So, an acolyte might have access to cantrips, but no more.
When we do level up to 1, no PC is required to pick any specific class, regardless of the chosen background.
0 Hit Dice, 4 + Con mod hit points.
Minimal gear but not nothing. Very little money.
Would this work? Is there anything we're not covering that we need to?
Could also add an additional % to level-up and at first level pick a class but also only pick half the abilities awarded to the 1st level of a class. So if you're looking to make the game more gritty and have some longevity at the start this would work without the fuss of 0-level characters.
Edit: For instance level 2 is attained at 900 experience, instead of 300 and additional skills for their class (from 1st level) is awarded around 450.
Isn't Level 1 supposed to be the old "Level 0" and Level 3 is the new "Level 1"?
Given that backrounds and races include various proficiencies, I'd set the level 0 proficiency bonus at +1, but that's sheerly for perversity's sake. Having played a couple of DCC funnel sessions, a level 0 game is something I like the idea of.
Okay, here's my checklist, which does cross-over and include stuff from yours
- Stats: Base+Racial
- Race: Include any bonus proficiencies
- Background: If the PCs, at this point, have no weapon proficiencies, let them pick one. If their background logically includes armor (or something that is similar enough to armor to count), let them get proficiency for that (an example is a foot soldier getting proficiency in Spears and Leather Armor, or an alchemist's safety equipment being close enough to leather or padded armor to give proficiency). In essence, the Background becomes their class. Let them choose 1 save to be proficient int
- Background Features: A Feature is normally a thematic roleplaying bonus. You can either use this to get access to limited cantrips, or you can keep it and replace proficiencies with cantrip access (I suggest about 2 proficiencies ought to do it). For cantrips, I suggest a limited number of them per day - say that spellcasters (Acolytes and Apprentices) have 3 cantrips (if you want, give them an automatic bonus one), with about... Oh say, 3-5+Spellcasting MOD per day. If you give them automatic bonus cantrips, I say Prestidigitation for Apprentices, and the new Close Wounds divine cantrip for Acolytes (described below)
- HP: As per your suggestion; 4+CON/MOD
- Gear: very minimal. If they are part of an organization or have a master/teacher, they can petition for equipment though
- Moving On: When you choose to level up into a class, you still maintain all the features of your background, including any cantrip casting ability you had. Cantrip casting abilities do not increase in power from this point on, unless you level into a spell casting class that has access to the cantrips you know - then your cantrips follow the normal cantrip casting rules for your class
- EDIT: Proficiency Bonus: (Stolen from Hitdice's post) Proficiency should be +1
Close Wounds:
Evocation Cantrip
Casting 1 Action
Range Touch
Components V, S
A core component of the Cure Wounds Spell, this part is used by Acolytes who wash out of training but still maintain their powers.
Effect: A creature you touch heals 1 hit point, up to their normal maximum HP. When you gain a level in any class that grants access to Cure Wounds, this cantrip becomes subsumed in the spell and can no longer be cast on its own.
DemoMonkey wrote:
Yes, but Apprentice Levels are far more delicious and contain both essential nutrients and a toy, therefore they will prove the popular choice in the long run.
DemoMonkey wrote:
Level 1 is for opening the box! YOU'RE PLAYING WRONG!!
On the original topic....
Are Level 1 5E monsters deadlier than Level 1 monsters in 1st through 3rd editions? (I never saw anyone try to play "Level 0" in a 4E game, so I don't actually have any useful opinion on that.)
And if they ARE more deadly, would a Level 0 even work without a TPK?
And if Level 1 is only supposed to last your first session, how long would Level 0 last? Your first encounter?
I would have been more happy if we had a level 0 instead of the level 1 we have now. In 4E, I wanted to institute a level 0 where you only have Con score hp, but even that would be more than level 1 PCs in 5th.
I liked racial levels in the 3e unearthed arcana for elves, dwarves, humans, etc...
I always thought a good level 0 would basicly just be your racial hit die so d8 and a few skills, and thats it.
I would never run a level zero game, but if that is how it worked I would love if level 1 characters got 2 hit dice 1 from race/level0 and one from level 1 in a class.
RustedKitsune wrote:
I've started my PCs at level-0 in order to kick off my campaign using the excellent 1e adventure N4 Treasure Hunt. While the author gives useful rules for starting PCs at level-0, I made some adjustments for 5e.
-Racial/Background traits only
-Proficiency bonus +1 only
-Starting HP = 6+con, 1d6 HD (to help compensate for general lack of weapon/armor profs)
-No gear/No money (they are shipwrecked while being transported as slaves)
The way the adventure is designed allows PCs to gain simple weapon and light armor profs by using them throughout the story, which I thought was cool.
Treasure Hunt is a good resource for somewhat outdated, but useful, 0-level info and is a GREAT story and a nice kickoff (with a twist) for any DND campaign. Can be gotten, cheap, at drive thru RPG an dother places on the web. I highly recommend!
Here's an idea that just popped in my head. Unfortunately it involves waiting, but NOT waiting for WoTC to produce level 0 rules.
Wait until the MM or maybe the DMG gets released see what stats there are for "commoners" "normal humans" etc.
Play those stats as your characters until you've done what story bit you want to do. Then roll up "real" characters that match what happened in your story bits.
So admittedly you aren't transitioning from Level 0 to Level 1 but unstead playing your character before he (or she) is your "character".
I hope that makes any sense to anybody but me.
I appreciate the suggestions, Zappy, but my group and I are far too eager (and too old) to actually wait for any more books to come out. As of tomorrow (July 18), we're starting a long-term 5e campaign, from level 0. Two of the PCs are tieflings. We'll have fun with what rules info we have so far, and we'll adjust as necessary (without too much retconning) as more books come out.
I totally understand why WotC is releasing this way. That said, there's no chance in hell that avid gamers like I run with are going to wait. We already game 3-4 times per week.
Not a bad idea. Level 1 characters in 5e are already crafted to have a history attached to them. In other words, when you look at a 5e level 1 character those charactes already are someone. I think you'll have to remove some of the backgrounds because they define the character a bit too much for level 0.
dmgorgon,
I don't think the point of 0-level is to have formless amoebas as PCs. They'd still have a history/background/life before the game begins. Unless you are starting the campaign out with them as toddlers. And even then I could argue they have some degree of background that would impact their play going forward.
(For the record, I disagree with your evaluation of what 1st level means. I agree with others who believe 5e seem to lean towards 1st and 2nd as being the "apprentice levels". IMO, a PC blossoms into proper "somebody status" starting at 3rd when they get their archetype or whathaveyou.)
SwampDog wrote:
Low levels are deemed the least desirable, and the question is usually how to get thru them quickly, not how to add more. 5e is especially this way with little time spent at these low levels. So 5e is unlikely to write up rules for level zero.
Several versions of level zero have been proposed for other versions, with very low levels of popularity.
A level zero is going to be especially deadly. But the player must set several aspects of the PC right from the start. So there is danger of the player not getting to play what he wants, unless we make the whole level meaningless.
The DCC funnel deals with the high mortality of 0-level characters by having each player run mutiple characters. I've only done it 2 or 3 times, but even with as little individualization as only a name and background profession, you come out very attached to the survivor(s). Of couse, it's rather "Fantasy Viet Nam, it's a feature, not a bug," so if you're not into that, you'll probably hate it.
For me is a interesting idea to play "civilians" PCs, for example the children who are the main characters from a book or a cartoon.
But there is other reason. I would like to play some monster PCs, and a level 0 would help to a softer balance of power. Some monster traits are very powerful for a level 1 but nothing in the highest levels.
A level 0 would be for "nPC classes".
DavidArgall wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
DavidArgall wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
I think lv 0 can be fun,but it takes lot of effort from DM to adjust encounters so that there aren't TPKs every fight. I can see the appeal of playing commoner who isn't really a hero. I think i even played something similar in 3e. NPC classes,1st lv,commoner array (the lowest one,don't know how it is called),almost no equipment,farming implements as weapons. That was fun. Even ordinary wolf is big challenge for character like that.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
I've known plenty of zeroes who were middle-aged.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
This is why I like to keep my replies intriguingly absurd and implausible so nobody wants to respond. There's a reason why Vegas falls on a ley line of negative energy; so the house wins.
Not to focus too mcuh on the one example, but the last entry on the Soldier Backround's Specialty table is "Support staff (cook, blacksmith or the like)". I don't seen anything wrong with a youth working in the camp kitchens. Hell, if the party is trapped behind enemy lines after a defeat, "Sneak back to friendly territory without dying at the hands of fearsome CR1/4 enemies" practically writes itself as a 0-level adventure.
The starting characters have all been created now. They range in age from 17 to 30. We are starting classless, and have chosen backgrounds and are counting racial bonuses and proficiencies but lessened the starting equpiment. Collectively, we have less than 25 silver pieces, no armor, a few knives and one crude stone hand axe for weapons. Each has between 4 and 7 hit points (4 + Con mod).
My character is a dwarf farmer visiting the big city for the first time in his life. Another is an orphaned tiefling acolyte priest (2 cantrips!). A third is a human who lives off the street and is starting out in jail, just for the night. The fourth is also a tiefling who works as a carpenter's apprentice. The first session is tonight. Apparently, the circus has come to town...
SwampDog wrote:
SwampDog wrote:
Ooh, nice, Swamp; please keep us up to date. 