Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ramzour Sep 21, 2014 13:04:16	*SPOILERS* Lost Mine of Phandelver *SPOILERS* I have a few questions about the Lost Mine of Phandelver. Read on.     What has happened so far... Part 4. Wave Echo Cave. The Heroes have just completed Cragmaw Castle, defeated King Grol, and have rescued their lost quest-giver Gundren Rockseeker. They head back to Phandalin to rest up. Gundren offers them 25 gold each for rescuing him, and offers them a 10% share of the mine's wealth once his operation there is up and running.   So, here are the questions.... 1) What does Gundren Rockseeker know about Wave Echo Cave? How much of it has he (and his brothers) explored? Does he know about any of the monsters inside? The traps? The treasures? The adventure text seems to imply that he only found the entrance. Did he really not have a chance to explore the interior? Did he find the entrance and then immediately head to Neverwinter to find supplies and adventurers?   2) If Gundren does know anything, does he come along with the Heroes to Wave Echo Cave? Does he want to? Does he refuse? What knowledge can he provide ahead of time about the cave (i.e. its dangers and secrets)?   3) If the Heroes either convince or force Gundren to come along, how does he react to find his brothers (in whatever alive or dead state they might be in)?   4) If the Heroes decide not to help Gundren clear out Wave Echo Cave, does Gundren go to the cave without them? Does he encounter the Black Spider himself? Does he get killed?   5) Can the Heroes persuade Gundren to wait? For instance, if they want to complete other side-quests from Parts 2 or 3. Perhaps they want to save Wave Echo Cave for last (and hopefully when they are higher level). Will Gundren go to Neverwinter to recruit new heroes?   6) If Gundren recruits new Heroes in Neverwinter, does he get captured again on the way back to Phandalin? Is this where the adventure goes back around in an infinite time loop?   Your answers and insights are appreciated!
#2 Sword_of_Spirit Sep 21, 2014 17:07:38	5) I plan to throw in some sort of complication that allows the PCs time and verisimilitude "permission" to pursue side quests. Realistically, there is little reason to pursue side-quests before going to Wave Echo Cave, unless you know it is the climax of the adventure and you're metagaming. But it would kind of be nice for the PCs to level up.   I had a similar potential issue with the PCs wanting to save the Redbrands for land. Of course, all the NPCs are complaining about the Redbrands, per the way the adventure was written, but they were going to rescue their buddy Gundren first.  Fortunately, anticipating such a possibility, I had already come up with a plan before they even got to Phandalin to make the Redbrands a bit more personal. Worked like a charm.   Since I have six characters, once they finish with the Redbrands, they'll still be quite a few XP away from hitting 3rd level, but I'm pretty sure they'll run straight to Cragmaw Castle. I don't think I can satisfyingly do much to get them to 3rd level before they arrive (though I am going to throw the optional hobgoblin group at them before, rather than after the castle). I may rule a random encounter occurs (though I'll roll what they encounter randomly for my own enjoyment). If they still aren't 3rd level, hopefully they'll know if they need to retreat and regroup--especially since there are four extra goblins there that escaped from the hideout. And a 10% chance of Klarg (who they let got after intimidating and interrogating him.)
#3 THEMNGMNT Sep 21, 2014 17:31:04	Let's assume that Gundren is a non-combatant. He probably made it as far as the first monster and then ran away. He is not likely to go back into the mine, especially after having narrowly survived capture by the goblins. That's why he's offering the players 10% of the mine--because he knows he can't clear it himself. Sure, he could go off and hire some new adventurers, but would they be any good? The players have freed him and overcome every obstacle that has come their way thus far. So he has a lot of faith in their abilities. He's willing to wait a while for them to clear the mine--he trusts their judgment on strategy and timing. They've come this far and survived this long when no one else has. He likely assumes that his brothers are already dead. He himself knows how difficult captivity is and how lucky he is to be alive. The odds of his brothers being so lucky are low. So he expects the players to go on a recovery mission, not a rescue mission.   At least, that's how I'd play it.
#4 DM_HEEGZ Sep 21, 2014 17:55:39	I would assume Gundren's offer of 10% of mine profits is conditional on the party clearing the mine for him.
#5 THEMNGMNT Sep 21, 2014 18:13:31	Obviously, Gundren should fill in any/all backstory and paint an evocative picture of the mine and its importance to Phandalin and the North. Use him to get the players hyped up!
#6 iserith Sep 21, 2014 21:28:46	Ramzour wrote:
#7 Ramzour Sep 22, 2014 12:42:06	These are great ideas! Keep them coming!
#8 Ramzour Sep 22, 2014 12:44:30	Sword_of_Spirit wrote:
#9 Ramzour Sep 22, 2014 12:46:44	THEMNGMNT wrote:
(Reply to #6) Ramzour	iserith wrote:
#11 iserith Sep 22, 2014 13:18:00	Ramzour wrote:
#12 Ramzour Sep 24, 2014 1:04:48	Had some more ideas about Wave Echo Cave! Details below.   Area 2: Mine Tunnels. This area is filled with dead end tunnels, but contains no treasure and only 1 monster (Ochre Jelly). To make things interesting, I added two locations of interest, as well as an additional ooze.   DEAD END: This looks to be an unfinished tunnel dead end. There is a glint of something green and shiny. It’s a nice piece of emerald trapped in the rock. If the characters use mining tools and make a good Dexterity check, the gem is worth 200 gold. If not, they mangle it to pieces and it’s only worth 50 gold.   FALLEN ROCKS (as shown on the map): This section of the tunnel is blocked by a cave-in. Protruding from the rubble is a skeletal hand. It belongs to a dead dwarf miner. It takes a few minutes to clear the rubble, but there is a small pouch with 20 gold in it if they make the effort.   OCHRE JELLY: There are now two of these instead of one. They each attempt to use the various dead end tunnels as an ambush location, and prefer to attack when the Heroes are distracted (mining the emerald, moving the rocks, etc.). They can attack individually or separately, DM choice.     Area 3: Old HAUNTED Cave Entrance This large cavern has the remains of the old battle that took place here 500 years ago. All those skeletons and nothing interesting? Well, I've got something to change that! Hello Haunted Cave Entrance!   The Haunted Battle! Littered across the whole ground area of the cavern are roughly 100 skeletons equipped with rusted armor scraps and various types of broken weapons (swords, spears, axes, bows, etc.). Some dwarf (~50 skeletons), some orc (~50 skeletons). There are so many bones that the whole area is Difficult Terrain. At some convenient point in time, the 6 large brass lanterns that sit in the walls flare to life with eerie green flames (GREEN FLAME!). The ground trembles violently for a few seconds and then the skeletons start to arise from the floor. They take up weapons and begin to fight each other, recreating the old battle. As they slay each other, a large pile of bones forms in the center of the cavern. Unless the Heroes directly attack the skeletons, they generally leave the Heroes alone. If they do attack, the skeletons do not choose sides and attack the closest threat.
(Reply to #12) Jamroar	This is all GREAT stuff! Thanks for the ideas, Ramzour.     Ramzour wrote: