Why should anyone who loves playing D&D 5e post here on the official D&D 5e forums?
This is an honest question that I'm hoping you guys can answer. More context below.
So, back before 5e was released, these forums were a cesspool of negativity. There was so much bickering and arguing that any meaningful or productive post was quickly swept away in the outgoing tide of garbage posts. This apparently attracted the attention of the mods here and they claimed that a change was going to happen. A new forum where negativity wasn't the only thing posted, where posts were better moderated, where ideas could be exchanged without fear of trolls.....a place where gamers could discuss 5th Edition Dungeons and Dragons with fellow hobbyists and ethusiasts.
And the forums DID get better. 5th Edition came out. We had posts talking about all the cool stuff in the books. We had posts about tips and tricks for running the Starter Set or building characters. We had a great "Introduce Yourself" post (which I still have linked in my sig, if you're interested) so we could better get to know each other.
Yeah, that lasted for about a month.
And now this place is full of the same terrible people spewing the same terrible garbage. This place is where petty basement dwellers come to tell everyone how the game sucks even though they've never played it. This place is where good and constructive ideas come to die in a sea of flamewars.
But why? Why does it have to be this way? Do you people really and honestly enjoy being jerks to everyone?
I love D&D, and I especially love 5th Edition. I've played all of the editions, but 5e is my favorite edition so far. I play every week and spend a lot of my free time prepping for my games (and sometimes I have multiple groups playing different adventures). And so I come here to share ideas and get inspired, but I'm left with a really bad taste in my mouth.
This is not a ragequit post. I'm not delivering any hollow ultimatums that if people don't start behaving, then I'm outta here. What this post IS, however, is my attempt at understanding why we can't have nice things?
I mean, the day 5th edition was released, the devs practically stopped writing new articles. How terrible is that? And these forums might as well be moderated by a random number generator: If a post is reported, roll 1d20. If the roll is 10+, the post is deleted. Otherwise, it's left alone. There is no active moderation (as far as I can see). No one is making sure the community is welcoming. Wizards of the Coast has the benefit of owning the best roleplaying game in history, and yet they let its forums degrade into what we have today. In fact, I'm sure this post here will be moderated into oblivion, which is pretty ironic.
Anyway, I hope you all have a good day. I know I will. Tonight we're playing D&D and Venomfang is about to attack Phandalin (which is part of my homebrew segue between LMoP and HotDQ).
Peace.
Due to complaints received about this thread, I've closed it. The thread will be reviewed by the Community leads to determine if it should be permanently closed, re-opened, and/or a new thread or threads created in its place.
Hi,
I've made a review of this thread and decided to reopen it and move it to the correct forum. Let's all please keep the discussion civil and positive, avoid any “naming and shaming”, just talk in general the ways folks can improve the tone of the conversations in our forums.
Cheers,
Monica
I know I've made made a negative post about how the official DnD website is really confusing and frustrating. I didn't make that post to just be negative. Quite the opposite, really. I posted to help get it fixed! I looked for a CONTACT US link, but didn't find any. I really hope they change how the official website is as I was utterly lost trying to figure out the basics of 5th E and what actually was a product.
I also posted a bunch of questions about the Adventure League and ended up frustrated with what it was. I posted some complaints about how it shafts the home gamer and got the deal that it's meant to push people into the stores. That's fine for what it is, but not for me.
Other than that, though, I've posted some postiive ones. I've not had anything negative other than what I brought.
Ramzour, I appreciate the hustle here, but I think you're missing an important element.
All these forums are is a place to redirect the kinds of customers that no one wants to deal with.
We're all here because we're slightly-to-highly pedantic rules-lawyers who fancy themselves armchair debate team captains or the "world's greatest DM". This is the best that we as a community can do - petty, semantic and nuanced arguments hinging on half-baked logical premises and built up page-after-page by those of us who refuse to let even the most informal fallacies slide. Could you imagine the customer service overhead if WotC had to actually listen to any of this?
Instead, we just gnash and claw at each other in an orgy of artifical and unjustified pride while WotC avoids us like the Abyss itself.
That being said, I think you've got a good purpose here.
Why can't we tone it down a bit?
Why can't we always put our best foot forward?
Why can't we avoid threads where we disagree with the premises?
Why can't we avoid the forums entirely if we're not playing 5E?
All valid questions, and the aforementioned pettiness of these forums means they'll never be satisfyingly answered or likely even discussed.
At any rate, I hope this thread sparks some honest discuss and introspection, and maybe helps usher in a more polite atmosphere around here.
Edited by Orc_Barrons: Inappropriate Content violates the Code of Conduct: http://company.wizards.com/conduct'
There are about 4-5 people on these forums who post endless negative crap. If just 4-5 people were banned, the forums would be great again. I've written to Trevor asking him about it, he claimed he passed the email on to the people who moderate these forums...and then nothing happened. They know who the troublemakers are, but for whatever reason they have not banned them yet.
Actually, I've found some extremely helpful people here. No community is without it's bad eggs, but some of the regular "DM Help" and "Player Help" posters are actually helping, and have answered some questions and provided examples of play that I think will help me be a better DM and have more fun with the system as it is.
In an official, public forum that allows anyone with an email address to post, you get negative, argumentative and nasty people as a matter of course. Fortunately, we also have some helpful, imaginative and creative people as well. It's like an all-you-can-eat buffet... if you don't like the cole slaw, don't take the cole slaw; load up on the chicken strips or something. (Sorry for the food metaphor, I skipped lunch.)
I feel like disagreement is impossible on these forums. Any opinion that does not tow the line is immediately and voraciously attacked rather than discussed on its own merits. It is my opinion that this knee jerk reactionism I see drives people away from these forums and the hobby as a whole.
In my mind there are proabably two awesome posters who constantly have great posts and they are Bawylie and Iserith.
Kudos to you Gentlemen
In case the mods are actually reading this thread, and in case they don't already know: There seems to be a general consensus on most RPG-related boards that WotC's forums are some of the least friendly and most poorly moderated on the web. It seems to be getting a tiny, tiny bit better, but it's still pretty bad. Shameful, even, perhaps. Mistwell has a good point: There doesn't seem to be any banning, ever. Like, never at all. And when the mods actually do something, all they do is post "I've removed content from this thread, please be respectful..." So, nobody really knows what happened or what it was that got removed and nobody has any examples to look at and say, "Oh, that type of comment got this guy banned, maybe I should think twice before posting this." Insults and crap like that shouldn't be left on the site for people to read, but simply deleted everything and pretending it never existed is no solution, either. Not that I'm in love with these other sites, but I think that having mods call things out in-thread can do a lot to discourage random insults and personal disrespect. Like I said, I don't love these other sites, but you don't see the same stuff on ENWorld or RPGnet. I don't exactly like the way they do it, but their forums (sometimes) end up coming across as more friendly and inclusive.
Also, everybody's passionate about this stuff. There's really only a few trolls and edition warriors here, from what I can tell. It's just that they make a big noise and like to get in everybody's face, so it's easier to notice them than the respectful, thoughtful majority.
Shasarak wrote:
After my group finished the LMoP, we are doing a new campaign based off Iserith's signature. And as long as it's okay to call out the good folks - Kalani should get a nod, as should the folks that spent time writing the class guides.
Grifford wrote:
Yes, naming and praising is ok, just not naming and shaming 
Monica
This says 26 posts but I can only see 14.
Where are the other 12?!?
*Rounds up search-posse*
Shasarak wrote:
bawylie wrote:
Satyrn wrote:
Satyrn wrote:
Player's handbook searching desperately a FAQ and an Errata guide!
The final version of the PHB and the MM have not been playtested. It is done right now.
I hope the dev team is not surprised that peoples continue to use the forum as a bug report for broken or unclear rules.
When people argue over 100++ posts on a single rule: The Free hand for casting for example,
the dev team should consider a FAQ to avoid such endless debate in all DnD groups.
SteveMND wrote:
I try and stay pretty positive. At this point though if I see a post that sounds interesting, but has devolved into a flame war, I just back out and go on to the next thread. My time is just worth more than reading 200 pages of people going back and forth about their literal or liberal views of the rules.
These forums are not that bad as far as forums go. Threads tend to go 1,000 posts off topic sometimes though. ;)
I would like to see the mods delete off topic posts to clean up some threads.
Synjin wrote:
frbelanger wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
The negativity and circular debates that typify these forums drove me to finally create an ENWorld account. The tone and mood there is much more to my liking. I wish I'd done so years ago. Since the community is so similar, I tend to attribute the differences to their more active moderation.
I think this new edition of D&D has succeeded in bringing a wide player demographic to the site. We have old-timers and new players coming here to discuss the same D&D rules. That's great. The problems arise, in my opinion, when one side or the other feels the need to doggedly prove, by way of endless argument, the superiority of their own style of play, and the inferiority of any other way of doing things. This is what I see in many, many threads. The rude, condescending way in which many people approach every interaction is pretty deplorable. Would most persons ever dare to behave in such a fashion in face to face interactions?
I've enjoyed these forums for a nearly a decade. I visit almost daily, even in times when I'm not very active in discussions. The only time I quit coming here was during the D&D Next Playtest, as I wasn't interested in participating, and therefore had nothing to add to any discussions. My occassional visits told me the place was pretty toxic. I was sad to find the same when I came back around just before the 5E launch.
Things are better than they were one month ago, but not enough so for me to really enjoy the discussions. Normally, finding no discussions in which I'm interested, I'd simply start a discussion concerning something in which I have more interest. Here, though, it just doesn't seem worthwhile. The belligerent souls will find their way into any discussion, derailing it with troll-like behavior or off-topic debates. It's not worth it, for me.
I hope things get better. If enough people make a conscious effort to be more civil and accepting of the ideas of others, maybe things will improve.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Simple solution jsut ban everyone who has an account created after 2002. And get off my lawn while you are at it!!!!
BTW that was a joke.
ankiyavon wrote:
I wasn't going to comment.... but why not?
I haven't played D&D since 4th came out, and I am having a ball with 5th now!
I am on these forums trying to find cool things for my new campaign, discover some rule clarifications, or find sweet DM tid-bits of information. And, thankfully, I have!
My BUT, is that after about the 4th or 5th message in a post, things seem to degenerate into off-topic discussions and drift away, well, from anything helpful. This doesn't alwys happen, but it does happen enough that I notice it.
It's a bummer. Yes, I know you have the Trolls... such is the web!
Anyway, there are some great people who contribute! So thank you! I'll keep reading, but at times I feel like I gotta CUT through a ton of fat to get the meat! LOL!
Wow, this turned into some-sort of ramble. Bleh.....
tallric_kruush wrote:
My biggest problem with the forums are individuals who can't come to an interesting disagreement on taste. I see individuals with absolute conviction that their style of play and opinions on <system|monster|mechanic> are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. I see individuals who are adamant about pointing out the wrong and the "No, you can't" rather than looking for the positives and the "Yes, you can." There's absolutely a place for respectful criticism... but that doesn't make your opinion immune to criticism itself.
By the by, Razmour, keep posting; I love the stuff that you post.
Dooflegna wrote:
Hello,
I would like to volunteer to be a forum mod. I hereby solemnly swear to relentlessly delete posts and ban users. All negative posts will be moved to the MTG forum where they belong.
Respectfully awaiting admin privileges,
Terminum
I reccomend the simple trick of just blocking people.
If they only seem to be posting hate, if they haven't said *anything* productive, and if they're making you dislike the forums then just block their ass.
(image is just a demo. I have not blocked Ramzy.)
I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Just because sometimes you catch someone in a bad mood, or there's a pet peeve being discussed, or you just seem to catch their angry posts. I don't want to just make a habit of blocking people I disagree with (even vehemently). (That defeats the purposes of coming to message boards.)
So I tend to make a mental note and just keep reading. But if the same person angries up my blood again and again I like to check their profile and see what else they've posted. If it's all hate, I block 'em.
If everyone blocks them, they'll stop posting because no one is responding. And it's no fun being a troll if no one is taking the bait. So it's a self-correcting problem.
I've also blogged on the subject. Originally on this site, but that post has since been eaten by the forum "upgrade".
The_Jester wrote:
The_Jester wrote:
Why should anyone who loves playing D&D 5e post here on the official D&D 5e forums?
This is an honest question that I'm hoping you guys can answer. More context below.
So, back before 5e was released, these forums were a cesspool of negativity. There was so much bickering and arguing that any meaningful or productive post was quickly swept away in the outgoing tide of garbage posts. This apparently attracted the attention of the mods here and they claimed that a change was going to happen. A new forum where negativity wasn't the only thing posted, where posts were better moderated, where ideas could be exchanged without fear of trolls.....a place where gamers could discuss 5th Edition Dungeons and Dragons with fellow hobbyists and ethusiasts.
And the forums DID get better. 5th Edition came out. We had posts talking about all the cool stuff in the books. We had posts about tips and tricks for running the Starter Set or building characters. We had a great "Introduce Yourself" post (which I still have linked in my sig, if you're interested) so we could better get to know each other.
Yeah, that lasted for about a month.
And now this place is full of the same terrible people spewing the same terrible garbage. This place is where petty basement dwellers come to tell everyone how the game sucks even though they've never played it. This place is where good and constructive ideas come to die in a sea of flamewars.
But why? Why does it have to be this way? Do you people really and honestly enjoy being jerks to everyone?
I love D&D, and I especially love 5th Edition. I've played all of the editions, but 5e is my favorite edition so far. I play every week and spend a lot of my free time prepping for my games (and sometimes I have multiple groups playing different adventures). And so I come here to share ideas and get inspired, but I'm left with a really bad taste in my mouth.
This is not a ragequit post. I'm not delivering any hollow ultimatums that if people don't start behaving, then I'm outta here. What this post IS, however, is my attempt at understanding why we can't have nice things?
I mean, the day 5th edition was released, the devs practically stopped writing new articles. How terrible is that? And these forums might as well be moderated by a random number generator: If a post is reported, roll 1d20. If the roll is 10+, the post is deleted. Otherwise, it's left alone. There is no active moderation (as far as I can see). No one is making sure the community is welcoming. Wizards of the Coast has the benefit of owning the best roleplaying game in history, and yet they let its forums degrade into what we have today. In fact, I'm sure this post here will be moderated into oblivion, which is pretty ironic.
Anyway, I hope you all have a good day. I know I will. Tonight we're playing D&D and Venomfang is about to attack Phandalin (which is part of my homebrew segue between LMoP and HotDQ).
Peace.
Due to complaints received about this thread, I've closed it. The thread will be reviewed by the Community leads to determine if it should be permanently closed, re-opened, and/or a new thread or threads created in its place.
Hi,
I've made a review of this thread and decided to reopen it and move it to the correct forum. Let's all please keep the discussion civil and positive, avoid any “naming and shaming”, just talk in general the ways folks can improve the tone of the conversations in our forums.
Cheers,
Monica
I know I've made made a negative post about how the official DnD website is really confusing and frustrating. I didn't make that post to just be negative. Quite the opposite, really. I posted to help get it fixed! I looked for a CONTACT US link, but didn't find any. I really hope they change how the official website is as I was utterly lost trying to figure out the basics of 5th E and what actually was a product.
I also posted a bunch of questions about the Adventure League and ended up frustrated with what it was. I posted some complaints about how it shafts the home gamer and got the deal that it's meant to push people into the stores. That's fine for what it is, but not for me.
Other than that, though, I've posted some postiive ones. I've not had anything negative other than what I brought.
Ramzour, I appreciate the hustle here, but I think you're missing an important element.
All these forums are is a place to redirect the kinds of customers that no one wants to deal with.
We're all here because we're slightly-to-highly pedantic rules-lawyers who fancy themselves armchair debate team captains or the "world's greatest DM". This is the best that we as a community can do - petty, semantic and nuanced arguments hinging on half-baked logical premises and built up page-after-page by those of us who refuse to let even the most informal fallacies slide. Could you imagine the customer service overhead if WotC had to actually listen to any of this?
Instead, we just gnash and claw at each other in an orgy of artifical and unjustified pride while WotC avoids us like the Abyss itself.
That being said, I think you've got a good purpose here.
Why can't we tone it down a bit?
Why can't we always put our best foot forward?
Why can't we avoid threads where we disagree with the premises?
Why can't we avoid the forums entirely if we're not playing 5E?
All valid questions, and the aforementioned pettiness of these forums means they'll never be satisfyingly answered or likely even discussed.
At any rate, I hope this thread sparks some honest discuss and introspection, and maybe helps usher in a more polite atmosphere around here.
Edited by Orc_Barrons: Inappropriate Content violates the Code of Conduct: http://company.wizards.com/conduct'
There are about 4-5 people on these forums who post endless negative crap. If just 4-5 people were banned, the forums would be great again. I've written to Trevor asking him about it, he claimed he passed the email on to the people who moderate these forums...and then nothing happened. They know who the troublemakers are, but for whatever reason they have not banned them yet.
Actually, I've found some extremely helpful people here. No community is without it's bad eggs, but some of the regular "DM Help" and "Player Help" posters are actually helping, and have answered some questions and provided examples of play that I think will help me be a better DM and have more fun with the system as it is.
In an official, public forum that allows anyone with an email address to post, you get negative, argumentative and nasty people as a matter of course. Fortunately, we also have some helpful, imaginative and creative people as well. It's like an all-you-can-eat buffet... if you don't like the cole slaw, don't take the cole slaw; load up on the chicken strips or something. (Sorry for the food metaphor, I skipped lunch.)
I feel like disagreement is impossible on these forums. Any opinion that does not tow the line is immediately and voraciously attacked rather than discussed on its own merits. It is my opinion that this knee jerk reactionism I see drives people away from these forums and the hobby as a whole.
In my mind there are proabably two awesome posters who constantly have great posts and they are Bawylie and Iserith.
Kudos to you Gentlemen
In case the mods are actually reading this thread, and in case they don't already know: There seems to be a general consensus on most RPG-related boards that WotC's forums are some of the least friendly and most poorly moderated on the web. It seems to be getting a tiny, tiny bit better, but it's still pretty bad. Shameful, even, perhaps. Mistwell has a good point: There doesn't seem to be any banning, ever. Like, never at all. And when the mods actually do something, all they do is post "I've removed content from this thread, please be respectful..." So, nobody really knows what happened or what it was that got removed and nobody has any examples to look at and say, "Oh, that type of comment got this guy banned, maybe I should think twice before posting this." Insults and crap like that shouldn't be left on the site for people to read, but simply deleted everything and pretending it never existed is no solution, either. Not that I'm in love with these other sites, but I think that having mods call things out in-thread can do a lot to discourage random insults and personal disrespect. Like I said, I don't love these other sites, but you don't see the same stuff on ENWorld or RPGnet. I don't exactly like the way they do it, but their forums (sometimes) end up coming across as more friendly and inclusive.
Also, everybody's passionate about this stuff. There's really only a few trolls and edition warriors here, from what I can tell. It's just that they make a big noise and like to get in everybody's face, so it's easier to notice them than the respectful, thoughtful majority.
Shasarak wrote:
After my group finished the LMoP, we are doing a new campaign based off Iserith's signature. And as long as it's okay to call out the good folks - Kalani should get a nod, as should the folks that spent time writing the class guides.
Grifford wrote:
Yes, naming and praising is ok, just not naming and shaming
Monica
This says 26 posts but I can only see 14.
Where are the other 12?!?
*Rounds up search-posse*
Shasarak wrote:
bawylie wrote:
Satyrn wrote:
Satyrn wrote:
Player's handbook searching desperately a FAQ and an Errata guide!
The final version of the PHB and the MM have not been playtested. It is done right now.
I hope the dev team is not surprised that peoples continue to use the forum as a bug report for broken or unclear rules.
When people argue over 100++ posts on a single rule: The Free hand for casting for example,
the dev team should consider a FAQ to avoid such endless debate in all DnD groups.
SteveMND wrote:
I try and stay pretty positive. At this point though if I see a post that sounds interesting, but has devolved into a flame war, I just back out and go on to the next thread. My time is just worth more than reading 200 pages of people going back and forth about their literal or liberal views of the rules.
These forums are not that bad as far as forums go. Threads tend to go 1,000 posts off topic sometimes though. ;)
I would like to see the mods delete off topic posts to clean up some threads.
Synjin wrote:
frbelanger wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
The negativity and circular debates that typify these forums drove me to finally create an ENWorld account. The tone and mood there is much more to my liking. I wish I'd done so years ago. Since the community is so similar, I tend to attribute the differences to their more active moderation.
I think this new edition of D&D has succeeded in bringing a wide player demographic to the site. We have old-timers and new players coming here to discuss the same D&D rules. That's great. The problems arise, in my opinion, when one side or the other feels the need to doggedly prove, by way of endless argument, the superiority of their own style of play, and the inferiority of any other way of doing things. This is what I see in many, many threads. The rude, condescending way in which many people approach every interaction is pretty deplorable. Would most persons ever dare to behave in such a fashion in face to face interactions?
I've enjoyed these forums for a nearly a decade. I visit almost daily, even in times when I'm not very active in discussions. The only time I quit coming here was during the D&D Next Playtest, as I wasn't interested in participating, and therefore had nothing to add to any discussions. My occassional visits told me the place was pretty toxic. I was sad to find the same when I came back around just before the 5E launch.
Things are better than they were one month ago, but not enough so for me to really enjoy the discussions. Normally, finding no discussions in which I'm interested, I'd simply start a discussion concerning something in which I have more interest. Here, though, it just doesn't seem worthwhile. The belligerent souls will find their way into any discussion, derailing it with troll-like behavior or off-topic debates. It's not worth it, for me.
I hope things get better. If enough people make a conscious effort to be more civil and accepting of the ideas of others, maybe things will improve.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Simple solution jsut ban everyone who has an account created after 2002. And get off my lawn while you are at it!!!!
BTW that was a joke.
ankiyavon wrote:
I wasn't going to comment.... but why not?
I haven't played D&D since 4th came out, and I am having a ball with 5th now!
I am on these forums trying to find cool things for my new campaign, discover some rule clarifications, or find sweet DM tid-bits of information. And, thankfully, I have!
My BUT, is that after about the 4th or 5th message in a post, things seem to degenerate into off-topic discussions and drift away, well, from anything helpful. This doesn't alwys happen, but it does happen enough that I notice it.
It's a bummer. Yes, I know you have the Trolls... such is the web!
Anyway, there are some great people who contribute! So thank you! I'll keep reading, but at times I feel like I gotta CUT through a ton of fat to get the meat! LOL!
Wow, this turned into some-sort of ramble. Bleh.....
tallric_kruush wrote:
My biggest problem with the forums are individuals who can't come to an interesting disagreement on taste. I see individuals with absolute conviction that their style of play and opinions on <system|monster|mechanic> are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. I see individuals who are adamant about pointing out the wrong and the "No, you can't" rather than looking for the positives and the "Yes, you can." There's absolutely a place for respectful criticism... but that doesn't make your opinion immune to criticism itself.
By the by, Razmour, keep posting; I love the stuff that you post.
Dooflegna wrote:
Hello,
I would like to volunteer to be a forum mod. I hereby solemnly swear to relentlessly delete posts and ban users. All negative posts will be moved to the MTG forum where they belong.
Respectfully awaiting admin privileges,
Terminum
I reccomend the simple trick of just blocking people.
If they only seem to be posting hate, if they haven't said *anything* productive, and if they're making you dislike the forums then just block their ass.
(image is just a demo. I have not blocked Ramzy.)
I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Just because sometimes you catch someone in a bad mood, or there's a pet peeve being discussed, or you just seem to catch their angry posts. I don't want to just make a habit of blocking people I disagree with (even vehemently). (That defeats the purposes of coming to message boards.)
So I tend to make a mental note and just keep reading. But if the same person angries up my blood again and again I like to check their profile and see what else they've posted. If it's all hate, I block 'em.
If everyone blocks them, they'll stop posting because no one is responding. And it's no fun being a troll if no one is taking the bait. So it's a self-correcting problem.
I've also blogged on the subject. Originally on this site, but that post has since been eaten by the forum "upgrade".
The_Jester wrote:
The_Jester wrote:
Dragonette wrote:
Lashan wrote:
Grifford wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
All these forums are is a place to redirect the kinds of customers that no one wants to deal with.
I think the forums are basically fine. Personally I prefer it when folks use plain language and avoid jargon, particularly "logic" jargon.... this is a games forum, not a university class. Discuss things like a gamer at a table, communicate simply, keep things friendly. Sometimes agree to disagree. Profit.
It is not a perfect game, so there will be no perfect answers. I have seen bad behavior from whatever viewpoint you want to consider. Whether you want to continue to fan the flame to defend your posts or discredit others is up to you. In theory, the most neutral part of the forum should be rules questions. Once you get out into general discussion all bets are off. And you may as well fasten your seat belt and wait for the DM guide to be released before there is any chance of things settling down.
I used to post and read here a lot and I kind of gave up for a while because sifting through the negative posts got tiresome. I think the forums here are a bit better than they were when i was on them more.
I will also say that as a person that plays many games that every game forum I frequent except for Battletech is full of negative whining. If you play Warhammer or 40k, you know exactly what I am talking about (or anything with "Games Workshop" attached to it). Like any game that EA puts out? You also know exactly what I'm talking about.
Gamers as a community tend to be highly toxic. Its one of those things you have to sift through to find the good bits and have to have thick enough skin to ignore the ones that scream the loudest.
"... some posters here think it's their moral obligation to make sure everyone plays the way they do."
This line of thought is a convenient way to condemn the excesses of others while excusing your own. There's no moral crusade going on. But if you manage to convince yourself that the "other side" is bad, well then it justifies anything you do to those bad people, right?
Also, yes I do have a right to complain about my politicians, regardless of whether or not I voted. I reserve the right to think whatever I want, to hold some positions and not others, and to express my opinions as I wish - even using logical fallacies to make a point.
y'know, all, if you want to police the forums, start with yourselves. Everyone here admits to excesses - start with your own and maybe you won't even need to worry about anyone else's.
I fully admit that my propensity for snark sometimes borders on compulsion. I try to go for the funny. Sometimes it comes across as rougher than intended. Thems the brakes when it comes to the written word, I suppose. Unfortunately, there's still no sarcasm font.
I'm not much of a fan of the way in which moderation is dispensed on occasion. Heavy handed, selective and even perplexing at times (not just when directed at my posts, but others I’ve seen get modded as well). But that’s the price I guess we have to pay for the privilege of being here.
I make a conscious effort not to flag posts as inappropriate. Unless they are blatantly egregious. Even when I’ve seen the benefit of the doubt not being returned. And there are very few times I’ve pulled the trigger on actually blocking someone. I currently have no one blocked. Though some people I just skim over or blow past while reading out of disinterest in what they are harping on or a lack of respect I may have for their position.
But I also rarely hold a grudge. I may butt heads with someone vehemently in one thread, and toss them kudos on another. Life’s too short to dwell on the negative for too long. I’m a pretty easy going guy in real life. I’d hang out and play at a convention, or have a drink at the bar (assuming you’re old enough to drink), with anyone here. Well, almost anyone here*...
(*There are a select few, unfortunately, for whom I’ve lost respect. And when I say 'unfortunately', I really do mean that.)
I think recommending that people block users is a poor solution. Ideally the posts should be reported and the moderators should take care of the issue. The blocked trolls will be funneled to the new readers/posters who don't have them blocked. The new posters that don't just leave and never come back will get drawn into their garbage and we still end up seeing their post anyway.
There are a few moral crusade that happen on the forums, but they are related to alignment and paladins.
Edit: Whoever moved this thread needs to fix the way this post is linked.
Dragonette wrote:
Lashan wrote:
Grifford wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
All these forums are is a place to redirect the kinds of customers that no one wants to deal with.
I think the forums are basically fine. Personally I prefer it when folks use plain language and avoid jargon, particularly "logic" jargon.... this is a games forum, not a university class. Discuss things like a gamer at a table, communicate simply, keep things friendly. Sometimes agree to disagree. Profit.
It is not a perfect game, so there will be no perfect answers. I have seen bad behavior from whatever viewpoint you want to consider. Whether you want to continue to fan the flame to defend your posts or discredit others is up to you. In theory, the most neutral part of the forum should be rules questions. Once you get out into general discussion all bets are off. And you may as well fasten your seat belt and wait for the DM guide to be released before there is any chance of things settling down.
I used to post and read here a lot and I kind of gave up for a while because sifting through the negative posts got tiresome. I think the forums here are a bit better than they were when i was on them more.
I will also say that as a person that plays many games that every game forum I frequent except for Battletech is full of negative whining. If you play Warhammer or 40k, you know exactly what I am talking about (or anything with "Games Workshop" attached to it). Like any game that EA puts out? You also know exactly what I'm talking about.
Gamers as a community tend to be highly toxic. Its one of those things you have to sift through to find the good bits and have to have thick enough skin to ignore the ones that scream the loudest.
"... some posters here think it's their moral obligation to make sure everyone plays the way they do."
This line of thought is a convenient way to condemn the excesses of others while excusing your own. There's no moral crusade going on. But if you manage to convince yourself that the "other side" is bad, well then it justifies anything you do to those bad people, right?
Also, yes I do have a right to complain about my politicians, regardless of whether or not I voted. I reserve the right to think whatever I want, to hold some positions and not others, and to express my opinions as I wish - even using logical fallacies to make a point.
y'know, all, if you want to police the forums, start with yourselves. Everyone here admits to excesses - start with your own and maybe you won't even need to worry about anyone else's.
I fully admit that my propensity for snark sometimes borders on compulsion. I try to go for the funny. Sometimes it comes across as rougher than intended. Thems the brakes when it comes to the written word, I suppose. Unfortunately, there's still no sarcasm font.
I'm not much of a fan of the way in which moderation is dispensed on occasion. Heavy handed, selective and even perplexing at times (not just when directed at my posts, but others I’ve seen get modded as well). But that’s the price I guess we have to pay for the privilege of being here.
I make a conscious effort not to flag posts as inappropriate. Unless they are blatantly egregious. Even when I’ve seen the benefit of the doubt not being returned. And there are very few times I’ve pulled the trigger on actually blocking someone. I currently have no one blocked. Though some people I just skim over or blow past while reading out of disinterest in what they are harping on or a lack of respect I may have for their position.
But I also rarely hold a grudge. I may butt heads with someone vehemently in one thread, and toss them kudos on another. Life’s too short to dwell on the negative for too long. I’m a pretty easy going guy in real life. I’d hang out and play at a convention, or have a drink at the bar (assuming you’re old enough to drink), with anyone here. Well, almost anyone here*...
(*There are a select few, unfortunately, for whom I’ve lost respect. And when I say 'unfortunately', I really do mean that.)
I think recommending that people block users is a poor solution. Ideally the posts should be reported and the moderators should take care of the issue. The blocked trolls will be funneled to the new readers/posters who don't have them blocked. The new posters that don't just leave and never come back will get drawn into their garbage and we still end up seeing their post anyway.
There are a few moral crusade that happen on the forums, but they are related to alignment and paladins.
Edit: Whoever moved this thread needs to fix the way this post is linked.
We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.
You can review the Code here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct
Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intelligent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others.
Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.
Thank_Dog wrote:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
Back in 3.5 days, I was a regular poster, and enjoyed the discussions.
Due to various work, life, etc reasons, I dropped from the forums right after the switch to 4th. About a year ago I started popping in again, and found the forums had become a much more hostile place.
So I started posting again with the active goal of trying to be a non toxic poster, and encourage civil discussions. Instead I found myself just becoming part of the problem. That was when I decided to stop posting again.
Now, 5th edition it out, and it has some interesting ideas I would like to be able to discuss. But the very fact that this thread exists says I will be better off not doing it here.
Still, for those who want a better forum environment, here is my advice:
Start with yourself.
You can not force someone else to listen to you, but you can force yourself to listen (1). You can't force someone else to be civil, but you can force yourself to be civil in the face of hostility (2). You can not force others to treat you with respect, but you can force yourself to show repect to others (3).
(1). Listening means that after you read a post you disagree with you take the time to actually consider the points they are trying to make, and how they may be valid. Instead of just jumping straight to "You are wrong, here is why."
(2). At least you can try. I was increasingly failing at this.
(3). It is easy to show respect to those you tend to agree with. But the human brain has a very bad habit of creating groups of "us" and "them". "Us" gets respect, "Them" deserve scorn. It is self evident that we are nicer to the people we agree with. Less obvious is how rude, condescending, and dismissive we can be to those we have grouped into a "them". And sadly, when we see a member of "Us" treating one of "them" badly, we tend to see it as a good thing.
I wanted to clarify my position a bit, because it seems like some people took this thread as me saying that I'm perfect and everyone else is a troll. Not so. We're all guilty of negativity from time to time (some more than others). This post was an attempt to draw attention to the general attitude and behavior here. Some posters are bigger offenders than others and that negativity spreads to everyone. Personally, I think more active and effective moderation will help. And hopefully a couple of good warnings is enough and no one HAS to get banned. I don't have anyone on Block/Ignore and I don't necessarily want anyone banned. I want this to be a forum where everyone that loves D&D 5e can come here and talk and share ideas. But if someone gets in the way of that....well, then something needs to be done.
As an example, I was reading another thread yesterday where an infrequent poster chimed in on an on-going discussion. One of the more negative posters immediately attacked their comments with a very confrontational and rude response. The first poster said something like, "Well okay, guess we're not going to have a civil discussion then." and left the thread. That really saddens me. Someone that wanted to participate in a D&D 5e discussion was driven away by one of our aggressive "regulars" here. That is not okay!
Cyber-Dave wrote:
BoringInfoGuy wrote:
Reius wrote:
I find answers to the questions I may have on local forums of my area or less know forums.
Shesheyan wrote:
maybe instead of demanding WotC fix this forum, we should start one of our own and do it right from the ground up.
SteveMND wrote:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
I'm not sure what discussion you can have if you can't discuss problems.
If you can't discuss that, then I guess the forum would only ever have, say, adventure outline posts (ie, not a 'general discussion' forum anymore). Or 'Aint (rule Y in) edition X so wonderful!' suck up posts.
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
Noon wrote:
We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.
You can review the Code here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct
Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intelligent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others.
Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.
Mistwell wrote:
Noon wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Noon wrote:
I've never concealed that I have serious criticism's of how the devs have handled 5e. I have however also made it clear that I think at it's heart 5e is the best edition of D&D yet. So my arguements tend to reflect that. I can't throw too many stones, because I've responded in kind myself, and that's on me for allowing myself to get dragged into the Mud.
I can say that the atmosphere here is very different now than from when I came on board. I was never part of the edition wars, and didn't become active until joining the playtest, so I missed most of that fallout. But if it was anything like what I've seen happen since the Playtest was concluded, I can understand why these Forums have such a bad reputation.
I can look at the posters today, and point out a very small group that I can pick out as having been active participants on the Playtest forums and Next article comments. Some of that has to do with people leaving as the Playtest went in a direction they didn't like, or as the Playtest concluded and the product itself was released. Some of that also has to do with the manners of the Posters, many who attacked anyone who criticized 5e, especially in the months just prior to and after the Playtest conclusion.
I can look at this thread, and name 4-5 Posters who have consistently harrassed anyone who disagreed with their opinion of 5e. Some of them are even now posting, concerned about the atmosphere of the Forums, which they helped foster.
And I don't mean disagreeing and arguing the validity of the concerns of those who did not share their opinion. I mean repeated personal attacks against the Poster. It is one thing to debate or argue, even with passion, a subject you disagree with. It is entirely another to attack a Poster simply because you don't agree with their opinion. That's the real issue here, and it's the hypocrisy of this thread that really kills me. Some of those who say just a few people should be banned, that it would significantly reduce the problem, are every bit as guilty of being the problem themselves.
Noon wrote:
It's probably best to think of this forum as a "Points of Light" setting. Yes, there is a 50-page thread arguing about whether tarrasques can throw rocks. But there are also occasional interesting and useful posts to be found. Spread the light!
ClockworkNecktie wrote:
Happily, even that tarrasque thread has a few points of light. Not 2000 posts worth of light, but still a few. Like maybe 3 posts worth
ClockworkNecktie wrote:
Ramzour wrote:
Well Said, Telfiel.
LupusRegalis wrote:
mmm while i do think you are correct in your presumption, i don't think it weighs as heavy as
the nature of the forum itself.
i have seen forums on all kinds of topics from trivial things like this to religion, politics and even
ones about how the new world order is conspireing with aliens to kill off 80% of humanity.
none of them failed the way this one does.
so while i think you are right, i do not think it should be too much of an obstacle in making a
better community.
Telfiel wrote:
Does anyone know what happened to Tia? I thought she maintained a positive presence here on the forums but according to her profile, she hasn't posted here in two months!
I'm playing in her Friday night online game. I last heard from her 2 wks ago. However, I anticipate tomorrow is a go.
I hope she doesn't feel like she's not welcome here anymore. That would be sad.
pukunui wrote:
bawylie wrote:
can we stay on target please?
We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.
You can review the Code here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct
Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intelligent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others.
Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.
Thank_Dog wrote:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
Back in 3.5 days, I was a regular poster, and enjoyed the discussions.
Due to various work, life, etc reasons, I dropped from the forums right after the switch to 4th. About a year ago I started popping in again, and found the forums had become a much more hostile place.
So I started posting again with the active goal of trying to be a non toxic poster, and encourage civil discussions. Instead I found myself just becoming part of the problem. That was when I decided to stop posting again.
Now, 5th edition it out, and it has some interesting ideas I would like to be able to discuss. But the very fact that this thread exists says I will be better off not doing it here.
Still, for those who want a better forum environment, here is my advice:
Start with yourself.
You can not force someone else to listen to you, but you can force yourself to listen (1). You can't force someone else to be civil, but you can force yourself to be civil in the face of hostility (2). You can not force others to treat you with respect, but you can force yourself to show repect to others (3).
(1). Listening means that after you read a post you disagree with you take the time to actually consider the points they are trying to make, and how they may be valid. Instead of just jumping straight to "You are wrong, here is why."
(2). At least you can try. I was increasingly failing at this.
(3). It is easy to show respect to those you tend to agree with. But the human brain has a very bad habit of creating groups of "us" and "them". "Us" gets respect, "Them" deserve scorn. It is self evident that we are nicer to the people we agree with. Less obvious is how rude, condescending, and dismissive we can be to those we have grouped into a "them". And sadly, when we see a member of "Us" treating one of "them" badly, we tend to see it as a good thing.
I wanted to clarify my position a bit, because it seems like some people took this thread as me saying that I'm perfect and everyone else is a troll. Not so. We're all guilty of negativity from time to time (some more than others). This post was an attempt to draw attention to the general attitude and behavior here. Some posters are bigger offenders than others and that negativity spreads to everyone. Personally, I think more active and effective moderation will help. And hopefully a couple of good warnings is enough and no one HAS to get banned. I don't have anyone on Block/Ignore and I don't necessarily want anyone banned. I want this to be a forum where everyone that loves D&D 5e can come here and talk and share ideas. But if someone gets in the way of that....well, then something needs to be done.
As an example, I was reading another thread yesterday where an infrequent poster chimed in on an on-going discussion. One of the more negative posters immediately attacked their comments with a very confrontational and rude response. The first poster said something like, "Well okay, guess we're not going to have a civil discussion then." and left the thread. That really saddens me. Someone that wanted to participate in a D&D 5e discussion was driven away by one of our aggressive "regulars" here. That is not okay!
Cyber-Dave wrote:
BoringInfoGuy wrote:
Reius wrote:
I find answers to the questions I may have on local forums of my area or less know forums.
Shesheyan wrote:
maybe instead of demanding WotC fix this forum, we should start one of our own and do it right from the ground up.
SteveMND wrote:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
I'm not sure what discussion you can have if you can't discuss problems.
If you can't discuss that, then I guess the forum would only ever have, say, adventure outline posts (ie, not a 'general discussion' forum anymore). Or 'Aint (rule Y in) edition X so wonderful!' suck up posts.
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
Noon wrote:
We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.
You can review the Code here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct
Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intelligent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others.
Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.
Mistwell wrote:
Noon wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Noon wrote:
I've never concealed that I have serious criticism's of how the devs have handled 5e. I have however also made it clear that I think at it's heart 5e is the best edition of D&D yet. So my arguements tend to reflect that. I can't throw too many stones, because I've responded in kind myself, and that's on me for allowing myself to get dragged into the Mud.
I can say that the atmosphere here is very different now than from when I came on board. I was never part of the edition wars, and didn't become active until joining the playtest, so I missed most of that fallout. But if it was anything like what I've seen happen since the Playtest was concluded, I can understand why these Forums have such a bad reputation.
I can look at the posters today, and point out a very small group that I can pick out as having been active participants on the Playtest forums and Next article comments. Some of that has to do with people leaving as the Playtest went in a direction they didn't like, or as the Playtest concluded and the product itself was released. Some of that also has to do with the manners of the Posters, many who attacked anyone who criticized 5e, especially in the months just prior to and after the Playtest conclusion.
I can look at this thread, and name 4-5 Posters who have consistently harrassed anyone who disagreed with their opinion of 5e. Some of them are even now posting, concerned about the atmosphere of the Forums, which they helped foster.
And I don't mean disagreeing and arguing the validity of the concerns of those who did not share their opinion. I mean repeated personal attacks against the Poster. It is one thing to debate or argue, even with passion, a subject you disagree with. It is entirely another to attack a Poster simply because you don't agree with their opinion. That's the real issue here, and it's the hypocrisy of this thread that really kills me. Some of those who say just a few people should be banned, that it would significantly reduce the problem, are every bit as guilty of being the problem themselves.
Noon wrote:
It's probably best to think of this forum as a "Points of Light" setting. Yes, there is a 50-page thread arguing about whether tarrasques can throw rocks. But there are also occasional interesting and useful posts to be found. Spread the light!
ClockworkNecktie wrote:
Happily, even that tarrasque thread has a few points of light. Not 2000 posts worth of light, but still a few. Like maybe 3 posts worth
ClockworkNecktie wrote:
Ramzour wrote:
Well Said, Telfiel.
LupusRegalis wrote:
mmm while i do think you are correct in your presumption, i don't think it weighs as heavy as
the nature of the forum itself.
i have seen forums on all kinds of topics from trivial things like this to religion, politics and even
ones about how the new world order is conspireing with aliens to kill off 80% of humanity.
none of them failed the way this one does.
so while i think you are right, i do not think it should be too much of an obstacle in making a
better community.
Telfiel wrote:
Does anyone know what happened to Tia? I thought she maintained a positive presence here on the forums but according to her profile, she hasn't posted here in two months!
I'm playing in her Friday night online game. I last heard from her 2 wks ago. However, I anticipate tomorrow is a go.
I hope she doesn't feel like she's not welcome here anymore. That would be sad.
pukunui wrote:
bawylie wrote:
can we stay on target please?
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
bawylie wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Here I am. Apparently, the new account system hates my password randomizer.
Anyway... yes. A better community would be nice. I honestly think that the first step toward that would basically have to be the elimination of members from the forum who are here to trash a game they don't play, followed by a general agreement among the rest of us that we stop assuming people are acting in bad faith until they provide very strong evidence otherwise. We also need people to stop playing devil's advocate - that is, frankly, a ridiculous thing to do outside a formal debate training setting; the devil can advocate perfectly well for himself.
I think discussing the various strengths and weaknesses of the different versions of D&D can be a healthy thing, but attacking a trait because of the edition from which it came is not - the Nazis, after all, ate bread.
Thanks to Iserith for helping me figure out why I couldn't log in!
TiaNadiezja wrote:
TiaNadiezja wrote:
Nah, Zard, that's just you getting banned.
(Joke)
bawylie wrote:
TiaNadiezja wrote:
Reius wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Yeah, mine wouldn't recognize my password either, and changing it didn't help. Do you have anyone on ignore?
No. I probably should, but I don't.
TiaNadiezja wrote:
TiaNadiezja wrote:
Gatt wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
ankiyavon wrote:
If there are jerks in the pile, That'd be a good time for those advocating the same position as the jerks to step back or perhaps even say something positive for the other side, rather than continue on associating with the jerks.
If there are jerks here. I have no comment on that.
Satyrn wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
bawylie wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Here I am. Apparently, the new account system hates my password randomizer.
Anyway... yes. A better community would be nice. I honestly think that the first step toward that would basically have to be the elimination of members from the forum who are here to trash a game they don't play, followed by a general agreement among the rest of us that we stop assuming people are acting in bad faith until they provide very strong evidence otherwise. We also need people to stop playing devil's advocate - that is, frankly, a ridiculous thing to do outside a formal debate training setting; the devil can advocate perfectly well for himself.
I think discussing the various strengths and weaknesses of the different versions of D&D can be a healthy thing, but attacking a trait because of the edition from which it came is not - the Nazis, after all, ate bread.
Thanks to Iserith for helping me figure out why I couldn't log in!
TiaNadiezja wrote:
TiaNadiezja wrote:
Nah, Zard, that's just you getting banned.
(Joke)
bawylie wrote:
TiaNadiezja wrote:
Reius wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Yeah, mine wouldn't recognize my password either, and changing it didn't help. Do you have anyone on ignore?
No. I probably should, but I don't.
TiaNadiezja wrote:
TiaNadiezja wrote:
Gatt wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
ankiyavon wrote:
If there are jerks in the pile, That'd be a good time for those advocating the same position as the jerks to step back or perhaps even say something positive for the other side, rather than continue on associating with the jerks.
If there are jerks here. I have no comment on that.
Satyrn wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
The_Jester wrote:
bawylie wrote:
dungeondude wrote:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
Gunthar wrote:
It's not "misrepresented" at all, it's directly implied in what and how he wrote it. It's divisive, especially in a thread about being inclusive. If the thread were (the bad idea) of "what do you dislike abou x", or "is this version of the game an improvement" it would be more understandable, but it's not.
Focusing on the present without bringing (posting) baggage from the past is the key. There is nothing useful to inclusiveness in posting that.
Gunthar wrote:
Perhaps the poster being discussed should have been more mindful of how he said what he said.
Yeah, Gunthar, what if the comment was just a short hand for "I haven't played since 4th edition came out because I have been extremely busy with other concerns and never got a chance to play D&D until I had missed a whole edition, but I've got the time to play now and picked up 5th edition and am having a ball with it - and I have no opinion at all about 4th edition, but maybe I'll try it out some day on a whim."?
There are tons of possible reasons for "I haven't played since 4e came out," that aren't attacks against 4e - it is your choice whether you assume the entirely unstated malice or to give the poster the benefit doubt.
I agree. Nothing in the post as written stands an attack on 4E (peace be upon it).
My first thought was that it was a pretty obvious passive-agressive attack on 4E, although definitely a mild one not worth getting worked up about.
bawylie wrote:
My thoughts on forums is pretty much even-keeled I think. I don't know any of you personally, and the chances of you sitting at my table to game are next to nill, so why would I take anything anyone here says, personally? I have thoughts on each edition of D&D, and if asked, I'll answer it honestly, but if I say "X Edition sucked"....so what? My opinion is no more valid/invalid than yours is. If I understand the rules or monster as one way, that's my understanding of it. If you want to run it differently at your table...have at it and more power to ya. If I think a particular edition sucks, that doesn't mean I look down upon anyone that enjoyed that edition. It means it just wasn't for me and what I like from the game. Nothing more.
I've gotten a ton of good advice here. Both in regards to the rules and mechanics, and about RPing in general.
Mistwell wrote:
For forums, it depends on what I am after at the time. Rpg.net is my favorite - it has a lot more experienced GMs with a wider range of experience than these WotC forums. ENworld is similar. They are both also much more heavily populated than these forums. The WotC forums have a lot more new players looking for advice, I feel, so I tend to come here to be helpful and give advice to newer players, and go there to be advised or discuss things without the D&D slant that (understandably) taints conversations on this forum.
bawylie wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Ramzour wrote:
eleran wrote:
Gunthar wrote:
Gunthar wrote:
eleran wrote:
I think there's a difference between stating what editions you did or didn't like....and edition warring. We can discuss things objectively without bashing the game. Simply stating that you didn't play 4e is not even close to edition warring. I didn't play much of 4e myself, mostly because I was bored of it. But there's no reason to take a statement like that as malice.
I think we've covered this point, collectively.
ankiyavon wrote:
He did not say anything negative about 4E though or compare it to another edition.
Gunthar wrote:
The_Jester wrote:
bawylie wrote:
dungeondude wrote:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
Gunthar wrote:
It's not "misrepresented" at all, it's directly implied in what and how he wrote it. It's divisive, especially in a thread about being inclusive. If the thread were (the bad idea) of "what do you dislike abou x", or "is this version of the game an improvement" it would be more understandable, but it's not.
Focusing on the present without bringing (posting) baggage from the past is the key. There is nothing useful to inclusiveness in posting that.
Gunthar wrote:
Perhaps the poster being discussed should have been more mindful of how he said what he said.
Yeah, Gunthar, what if the comment was just a short hand for "I haven't played since 4th edition came out because I have been extremely busy with other concerns and never got a chance to play D&D until I had missed a whole edition, but I've got the time to play now and picked up 5th edition and am having a ball with it - and I have no opinion at all about 4th edition, but maybe I'll try it out some day on a whim."?
There are tons of possible reasons for "I haven't played since 4e came out," that aren't attacks against 4e - it is your choice whether you assume the entirely unstated malice or to give the poster the benefit doubt.
I agree. Nothing in the post as written stands an attack on 4E (peace be upon it).
My first thought was that it was a pretty obvious passive-agressive attack on 4E, although definitely a mild one not worth getting worked up about.
bawylie wrote:
My thoughts on forums is pretty much even-keeled I think. I don't know any of you personally, and the chances of you sitting at my table to game are next to nill, so why would I take anything anyone here says, personally? I have thoughts on each edition of D&D, and if asked, I'll answer it honestly, but if I say "X Edition sucked"....so what? My opinion is no more valid/invalid than yours is. If I understand the rules or monster as one way, that's my understanding of it. If you want to run it differently at your table...have at it and more power to ya. If I think a particular edition sucks, that doesn't mean I look down upon anyone that enjoyed that edition. It means it just wasn't for me and what I like from the game. Nothing more.
I've gotten a ton of good advice here. Both in regards to the rules and mechanics, and about RPing in general.
Mistwell wrote:
For forums, it depends on what I am after at the time. Rpg.net is my favorite - it has a lot more experienced GMs with a wider range of experience than these WotC forums. ENworld is similar. They are both also much more heavily populated than these forums. The WotC forums have a lot more new players looking for advice, I feel, so I tend to come here to be helpful and give advice to newer players, and go there to be advised or discuss things without the D&D slant that (understandably) taints conversations on this forum.
bawylie wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Ramzour wrote:
eleran wrote:
Gunthar wrote:
Gunthar wrote:
eleran wrote:
I think there's a difference between stating what editions you did or didn't like....and edition warring. We can discuss things objectively without bashing the game. Simply stating that you didn't play 4e is not even close to edition warring. I didn't play much of 4e myself, mostly because I was bored of it. But there's no reason to take a statement like that as malice.
I think we've covered this point, collectively.
ankiyavon wrote:
He did not say anything negative about 4E though or compare it to another edition.
Gunthar wrote:
Honestly, it doesn't matter what happened in 4e. This thread is about improving the community for 5e.
DaveyJones6913, maybe you would like to organize and summarize the points made in this thread for us?
Ramzour wrote:
joeburgos wrote:
Awesome, back to the topic for which I joined this community: My 5e game is going great! I have 5-6 players who meet at my FLGS. We started the Box Set a few months back. My players are the sort that like to cover everything, no rock is left unturned, so as a DM Im enjoying the level of detail they put on the scenarios. Our last game the group ventured into Thundertree where they eventually felt compelled to deal with the Green Dragon Venomfang. It did not fare well. The wizard was killed, the rest of the party, however, made their saves and almost died but decided to flee (smart move). Now the party has returned to Phandelin to request from the cleric of Tymora to cast a Raise Dead on their fallen party member. Fortunately, they had already dealt with the Redbrands and defeated Glasstaff, so many of the major NPCs are well disposed towards the party. Im really enjoying the module. Its nice to have a module that puts the control of the game in the DM's hands and not in the players. Its nice that as DM I can control the pace, the lethality of the combat. Next our group meets after thanksgiving for the post turkey haze and we plan on moving to Cragmaw Castle. Ive changed a few scenes there so Im excited to see how the party maneuvers through them. So far this Starter Box set has been the best $17 Ive spent on any game product. We've been playing it for 4 months and I can see the potential for many more stories. Im thinking of moving onto Legacy of the Crystal Shard next, then Hoard of the Dragon Queen (I'll make adjustments appropriately). "Winter is Comming..."
joeburgos wrote:
We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.
You can review the Code here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct
Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intelligent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others.
Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.
Ramzour wrote:
warpiglet wrote:
warpiglet wrote:
warpiglet wrote:
Ramzour wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
Ramzour wrote:
...out of the sky dead...
you people are the biggest hypocrites i have seen online since religious zealots found the internet.
you deserve the site you have and not one hair better.
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
Adjule wrote:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
It's okay, only decent people can be hypocrites.
That was rather... unexpected.
But true. We're all a bunch of hypocritical jerks (especially me). Just shut the site down and be done with it.
I think the worse thing that could happen to these forums would be for everyone to just get along. Conflict is educational. Despite all the fireworks I find my debates with some people to be beneficial even if I disagree with their perspective, don't like their poor use of logic, and in the end basically don't like them as a person. Even when all three are true (and that is pretty rare indeed) I still feel some benefit can be gotten from a discussion.
So no I don't want peace on these boards. They would dry up and blow away like a tumbleweed. There is a reason the most argumentative posts are the longest. Because people care and passion is good. Now there is a limit. We shouldn't allow our anger to turn into personal attacks because that doesn't help but feeling some passion is a good thing. Caring is good.
Just throwing in my two cents. Hope it addresses the OP:
I joined up when 5E came out so I could get help in finding new players and places to play. That said, I've definitely got sucked into a few of those conversations that resemble the Pirates of the Carribean octopus whirlpool things. While they get nasty, I will say this: you get different perspectives. I've had ideas that have been refined, changes, or hardened through the arguments... and I've been shown completely different ways of reading the rules. Sometimes I've adjusted course on a few topics, and sometimes I use the arguments from these boards to facilitate quicker arguments.
I understand that we need to all be civil. And we should! But I actually enjoy that people get so fired up, and I like that you can see the logic behind people's decisions. I don't think people should be jerks justbecauseI'monlineandnobodycanpunchme but I'm also a fan of us being able to pull up the hipwaders even when the discussion is more coarse than usual.
Start the conversations you want to have.
Emerikol wrote:
bawylie wrote:
Emerikol wrote:
Emerikol wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
bawylie wrote:
bawylie wrote:
Go to YouTube and search for what Louis CK has to say about 20-year-olds. My guess it has somethng to do with that, lol.
smacintush wrote:
joeburgos wrote:
Thanks Rhenny, I"ll do my very best to avoid the crap and focus on the good. Though sometimes I really wish there was an 'ignore' button like in EN world.
joeburgos wrote:
After spending some time on one of the major other forums, it's not much better or worse.
More moderated yes? But you end up with the same endless arguments, just slightly less combative.
This forum has had its moments, but of late its been better than some of the alternatives.
Ramzour wrote:
DungeonKrusher wrote:
Ramzour wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Honestly, it doesn't matter what happened in 4e. This thread is about improving the community for 5e.
DaveyJones6913, maybe you would like to organize and summarize the points made in this thread for us?
Ramzour wrote:
joeburgos wrote:
Awesome, back to the topic for which I joined this community: My 5e game is going great! I have 5-6 players who meet at my FLGS. We started the Box Set a few months back. My players are the sort that like to cover everything, no rock is left unturned, so as a DM Im enjoying the level of detail they put on the scenarios. Our last game the group ventured into Thundertree where they eventually felt compelled to deal with the Green Dragon Venomfang. It did not fare well. The wizard was killed, the rest of the party, however, made their saves and almost died but decided to flee (smart move). Now the party has returned to Phandelin to request from the cleric of Tymora to cast a Raise Dead on their fallen party member. Fortunately, they had already dealt with the Redbrands and defeated Glasstaff, so many of the major NPCs are well disposed towards the party. Im really enjoying the module. Its nice to have a module that puts the control of the game in the DM's hands and not in the players. Its nice that as DM I can control the pace, the lethality of the combat. Next our group meets after thanksgiving for the post turkey haze and we plan on moving to Cragmaw Castle. Ive changed a few scenes there so Im excited to see how the party maneuvers through them. So far this Starter Box set has been the best $17 Ive spent on any game product. We've been playing it for 4 months and I can see the potential for many more stories. Im thinking of moving onto Legacy of the Crystal Shard next, then Hoard of the Dragon Queen (I'll make adjustments appropriately). "Winter is Comming..."
joeburgos wrote:
We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.
You can review the Code here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct
Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intelligent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others.
Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.
Ramzour wrote:
warpiglet wrote:
warpiglet wrote:
warpiglet wrote:
Ramzour wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
Ramzour wrote:
...out of the sky dead...
you people are the biggest hypocrites i have seen online since religious zealots found the internet.
you deserve the site you have and not one hair better.
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
Adjule wrote:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
It's okay, only decent people can be hypocrites.
That was rather... unexpected.
But true. We're all a bunch of hypocritical jerks (especially me). Just shut the site down and be done with it.
I think the worse thing that could happen to these forums would be for everyone to just get along. Conflict is educational. Despite all the fireworks I find my debates with some people to be beneficial even if I disagree with their perspective, don't like their poor use of logic, and in the end basically don't like them as a person. Even when all three are true (and that is pretty rare indeed) I still feel some benefit can be gotten from a discussion.
So no I don't want peace on these boards. They would dry up and blow away like a tumbleweed. There is a reason the most argumentative posts are the longest. Because people care and passion is good. Now there is a limit. We shouldn't allow our anger to turn into personal attacks because that doesn't help but feeling some passion is a good thing. Caring is good.
Just throwing in my two cents. Hope it addresses the OP:
I joined up when 5E came out so I could get help in finding new players and places to play. That said, I've definitely got sucked into a few of those conversations that resemble the Pirates of the Carribean octopus whirlpool things. While they get nasty, I will say this: you get different perspectives. I've had ideas that have been refined, changes, or hardened through the arguments... and I've been shown completely different ways of reading the rules. Sometimes I've adjusted course on a few topics, and sometimes I use the arguments from these boards to facilitate quicker arguments.
I understand that we need to all be civil. And we should! But I actually enjoy that people get so fired up, and I like that you can see the logic behind people's decisions. I don't think people should be jerks justbecauseI'monlineandnobodycanpunchme but I'm also a fan of us being able to pull up the hipwaders even when the discussion is more coarse than usual.
Start the conversations you want to have.
Emerikol wrote:
bawylie wrote:
Emerikol wrote:
Emerikol wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
bawylie wrote:
bawylie wrote:
Go to YouTube and search for what Louis CK has to say about 20-year-olds. My guess it has somethng to do with that, lol.
smacintush wrote:
joeburgos wrote:
Thanks Rhenny, I"ll do my very best to avoid the crap and focus on the good. Though sometimes I really wish there was an 'ignore' button like in EN world.
joeburgos wrote:
After spending some time on one of the major other forums, it's not much better or worse.
More moderated yes? But you end up with the same endless arguments, just slightly less combative.
This forum has had its moments, but of late its been better than some of the alternatives.
Ramzour wrote:
DungeonKrusher wrote:
Ramzour wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
joeburgos wrote:
The moderators here are the best in the gaming community. This is "the" site for D&D.
SirAntoine wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Reius wrote:
Alduran wrote:
This is like the red carpet for 5e discussion. If anything, some attention could be drawn to making this community more friendly to serious criticism of 5e. Even in this regard, I don't think there is a problem, but people should feel free to start threads for any problems they are having with the game and how they think it could have been done better. It doesn't take long on other sites for critics of 5e to be scorned, and it happens a lot here, too.
SirAntoine wrote:
Reius wrote:
Most of the arguements would just go away if they banned everyone who joined after 2001;).
Really unhelpful joke, Zard.
SirAntoine wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
I think I coiuld list the number of people on these boards who cross the line of honest disagreement into being straight out 
on one hand. I'd probably have fingers left over.
There are also times when I use the phrase "honest question" as just that. Things have gotten off track, rhetoric has overtaken substance and I really am trying to just take a step back and try to understand what the other person is saying. It usually doesn't work, but sometimes it's worth a try.
There will always be questions where people just fundamentally disagree and there is no "one true answer". I don't think that's a problem because it gives us freedom to shape the game to better fit our group and play style.
Of course I have never said anything that was meant in a light-hearted sarcastic manner that was misinterpreted as a personal attack. 
What I like about this community is how serious people are about the D&D rules. In other communities I always have the feeling no matter what I discuss, people are always just like "Just houserule it, rules dont matter, it only matters that you are having fun" and while that's probably a good way of thinking, I'm more the type that likes to go strictly by the rules, so I need to discuss with people who are just as strict and will break the discussion down to the relevant sentences in the rules.
It's interesting to note that I left the boards for several months because the bickering was bringing me down, and when I came back I saw that this thread was still going.
Maybe it's just a matter of getting people to understand that sarcasm doesn't go over well online -- to the point where just about any comment can be colored by "Is this person making fun of me?" for what might be a very genuine comment. Heck, saying "Honest question" is a red flag that the community expects attacks, rather than discourse. How about we assume that a question or comment is intended as an intellectual statement, rather than an attack?
Better yet: let's all pretend we were sitting around a table. Would we act like jerks to each other, or would we be respectful?
Anyhow, I can't wait to pore around and see what's been going on the past few months! ;o)~
DungeonKrusher wrote:
durntaur wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
@durntuar I wasn't using this thread as a barometer of any sort, just noting that A- I left the threads a few months ago because of the contentious nature of many (not ALL, obviously) threads, and B- the day I logged back on, this thread had recently been re-addressed. It was more of a "funny, that!" moment.
@SirAntoine Interestingly, I posted a comment about a freemium game that a lot of people were hating on. I said something to the effect of "I like the recent updates. The game keeps improving." and then gave an example or two. No attitude, no snark, no nothing... and in a few minutes I was accused of being a troll/lackey for the company. It's disheartening that people can't just talk without attacking each other.
I'm probably just waxing poetic these days, is all. I just wish we'd be able to make a statement or ask a question without the intent being scrutinized. If there is a point to be made, let it be made; if not, it might just be a question that somebody wants answered. :o)
SirAntoine wrote:
durntaur wrote:
DungeonKrusher wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
durntaur wrote:
When I was a kid, my grandmother, who basically raised me, taught me the Golden Rule; "Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you." Following this rule would help on the internet too.
SirAntoine wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
joeburgos wrote:
The moderators here are the best in the gaming community. This is "the" site for D&D.
SirAntoine wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Reius wrote:
Alduran wrote:
This is like the red carpet for 5e discussion. If anything, some attention could be drawn to making this community more friendly to serious criticism of 5e. Even in this regard, I don't think there is a problem, but people should feel free to start threads for any problems they are having with the game and how they think it could have been done better. It doesn't take long on other sites for critics of 5e to be scorned, and it happens a lot here, too.
SirAntoine wrote:
Reius wrote:
Most of the arguements would just go away if they banned everyone who joined after 2001;).
Really unhelpful joke, Zard.
SirAntoine wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
I think I coiuld list the number of people on these boards who cross the line of honest disagreement into being straight out on one hand. I'd probably have fingers left over.
There are also times when I use the phrase "honest question" as just that. Things have gotten off track, rhetoric has overtaken substance and I really am trying to just take a step back and try to understand what the other person is saying. It usually doesn't work, but sometimes it's worth a try.
There will always be questions where people just fundamentally disagree and there is no "one true answer". I don't think that's a problem because it gives us freedom to shape the game to better fit our group and play style.
Of course I have never said anything that was meant in a light-hearted sarcastic manner that was misinterpreted as a personal attack.
What I like about this community is how serious people are about the D&D rules. In other communities I always have the feeling no matter what I discuss, people are always just like "Just houserule it, rules dont matter, it only matters that you are having fun" and while that's probably a good way of thinking, I'm more the type that likes to go strictly by the rules, so I need to discuss with people who are just as strict and will break the discussion down to the relevant sentences in the rules.
It's interesting to note that I left the boards for several months because the bickering was bringing me down, and when I came back I saw that this thread was still going.
Maybe it's just a matter of getting people to understand that sarcasm doesn't go over well online -- to the point where just about any comment can be colored by "Is this person making fun of me?" for what might be a very genuine comment. Heck, saying "Honest question" is a red flag that the community expects attacks, rather than discourse. How about we assume that a question or comment is intended as an intellectual statement, rather than an attack?
Better yet: let's all pretend we were sitting around a table. Would we act like jerks to each other, or would we be respectful?
Anyhow, I can't wait to pore around and see what's been going on the past few months! ;o)~
DungeonKrusher wrote:
durntaur wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
@durntuar I wasn't using this thread as a barometer of any sort, just noting that A- I left the threads a few months ago because of the contentious nature of many (not ALL, obviously) threads, and B- the day I logged back on, this thread had recently been re-addressed. It was more of a "funny, that!" moment.
@SirAntoine Interestingly, I posted a comment about a freemium game that a lot of people were hating on. I said something to the effect of "I like the recent updates. The game keeps improving." and then gave an example or two. No attitude, no snark, no nothing... and in a few minutes I was accused of being a troll/lackey for the company. It's disheartening that people can't just talk without attacking each other.
I'm probably just waxing poetic these days, is all. I just wish we'd be able to make a statement or ask a question without the intent being scrutinized. If there is a point to be made, let it be made; if not, it might just be a question that somebody wants answered. :o)
SirAntoine wrote:
durntaur wrote:
DungeonKrusher wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
durntaur wrote:
When I was a kid, my grandmother, who basically raised me, taught me the Golden Rule; "Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you." Following this rule would help on the internet too.
SirAntoine wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
durntaur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The point I tried to make is wizards.com has great moderators.
SirAntoine wrote:
SirAntoine wrote:
The boards used to have active mods.
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Unless they are overworked, O... do you even read people's posts before responding?
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
...and again you see only the black and the white while completely refusing the possibility of any shade of grey.
They don't have the time to actively search out every post because there are so many complaints they are reacting to, but they still do get more than 0 active-search time.
Secret2960 is making this forum a better place. That's for certain!
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Well, drink up! And while you're sipping some of that sweet, sweet java, best you brush up on your Korean. Or you're gonna fall behind and be left out of all the cool conversations.
Reported and blocked.
Is this a coincidence, though, or is someone trying to make a point?
That was quick, I think.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
It may be that the less active the moderators are, the fewer problems there are. That is probably because of good moderation to begin with, but it also says something for the quality of the community itself. People come here to discuss their honest concerns, and to find friends and fellow gamers who share their likes.
SirAntoine wrote: