Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mellored Jun 30, 2015 10:56:54	Name is up for debate, as usual, but i'll use Marshal for now. Focuses on using the "help" action, as it's main stchick.  Giving advantage around.   HD: 1d8 Prof: Simple Weapons, Medium armor and shields.  Int and Wis saves. Skills: Choose three skills from Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival   Level 1: Field Medic.  You gain proficency in the healing skill.  In addition, you can use an action to patch up the wounded, allowing them to spend hit dice.  You can allow a number of hit dice upto your Marshal level, either all at once, or across mutiple actions.   Each hit die spent gains +Int to the resule.  This resets at the end of a long rest. Expertise: 2 skills.   Level 2: Quick Advice: You can use a bonus action to help. Commander's Move: You can use an action to let an ally with 30' move it's speed, or move 5' without provoking an OA.   Level 3: Bravada: Heavy armor, martial weapons.  Fighting style (dualist, greatweapon, defense). Tactical: You can help from a distance equal to your Int mod * 5'. Inspiring: When you help, the ally gains THP equal to your Cha modifier. Menencing: Heavy armor, martial weapons.  You can use the help action to hinder an enemy, giving it disavantage on it's next attack roll.   Level 4: ABI/Feat   Level 5: Commander's Strike. As an action, you can let an ally make an attack as a reaction against the target within 5' of you.  If the attack hits, it deals damage their weapon damage + their stat damage + your Int modifier. it does not benifit from other abilities such as sneak attack.   Level 6: Bravada: When you use Commander's Strike you can make a single melee attack against the same target afterward. Tactical: When you help, the ally can move 5' without provoking an OA. Inspiring: If you help an ally under a spell or effect, that ally gains advantage on it's next save against it. Menencing: When you hinder an enemy and it still hits, it deal 1/2 damage, and cannot score a critical hit.   Level 7: Multi-attack: 2 attacks. Charasmatic: You gain proficency in Cha saves. Commander: You an and allies within 30' of you gain +1/2 your proficency bonus on inititive.   Level 8: ABI / Feat   Level 9: Warning Shout: When an ally is attacked, you can use your reaction to help against the attack.  Giving disvantage on the attack roll.   Level 10: If you use commander's strike and both you and your ally hit the target, your attack is a critical. Bravada: If you use commander's strike, and you hit the target,  Tactical: Increase the distance you can help by to Int * 10'. Inspiring: Incerase the amount of temporary hit points to twice your Cha. Menencing: You can use your action to frighten someone with your menacing presence.  When you do so, choose one creature that you can see within 30 feet of you. If the creature can see or hear you, it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier) or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn. On subsequent turns, you can use your action to extend the duration of this effect on the frightened.   Level 11: Superior Strike: When you use commander's strike, the ally can use a cantrip or 2 attacks if it has multi-attack.  In addition it can use sneak attack or other features.  It only adds your Int modifier once.   Level 12: ABI/Feat   Level 13: Superior Help: When you help an ally to attack, it applies to each attack they make with that action, reaction, or bonus action.   Level 14:  Bravada:  Multi-Attack (3 attacks). Tactical:  When you use your bonus action to help, it can immidatly move upto 1/2 it's speed without provoking. Inspiring: When you help, all allies within 20' of you gain temporary hit points equal to your Cha modifier. Menencing: When you hinder an enemy, allies also gain advantage on their saving throws.   Level 15: Improved Warning: When an ally is the target of a spell, you can use your reaction to give it advantage on it's first save against that spell.   Level 16:  ABI/ Feat   Level 17: Supreme Command:  When you use commander's strike, the ally can take an action.  If the ally hits with an attack it can add your Int modifier to damage once.   18: Expert Teamwork: If anyone in your party is proficent in a skill, everyone else can add 1/2 their proficency to their check.   19:  ABI/ Feat   Level 20: Perfect Planning: You are always under the effects of the Foresight spell.
#2 SleepsInTraffic Jun 30, 2015 11:33:36	I think Fifth should still be extra attack. It's a standard in class design, and the martial is supposed to be a master of combat even if only in the directing of it, the bravura can get a third attack (though that should be moved up from 6th level). I'd say Move warning shout up to 6th or 8th and also allow it to give advantage on an allies saving throw. Just my thoughts on it. Looks really cool so far though. I really do like the idea of a guy that uses the help action on the regular.
#3 mellored Jun 30, 2015 13:05:37	SleepsInTraffic wrote:
#4 arnwolf666 Jun 30, 2015 13:14:53	I'm a d10 hp and extra attack at 5th level fan.  But I think it is a good class.  This is one class that I could bend the rules for and give proficiency with int, wis, and cha.  I say this because I really think the class should be proficient with Int and Cha saves, but those two come up very infrequently.
#5 Marandahir Jun 30, 2015 17:40:09	You know it's spelled Marshal, right? Martial is an adjective reffering to combat and the act of war, and comes from the Latin name for the War God Ares, "Mars." Marshal, while having nearly the exact same sound and having a similar meaning, has its roots in the Old Germanic word for "horse" and "servant", which came borrowed into Latin and then through Old French to Middle English to Modern English. Completely unrelated source. Please do not confuse.
#6 Slit518 Jun 30, 2015 20:39:44	Should you add a feature that allows them to grant an ally an extra Bonus Action; Action; Reaction?
#7 mellored Jun 30, 2015 18:11:12	arnwolf666 wrote:
#8 Ashrym Jun 30, 2015 18:46:52	Am I understanding correctly? You are giving the ability to have 3 attacks and then give the entire party each a reaction attack as a bonus action every turn?
#9 Slit518 Jun 30, 2015 20:40:13	mellored wrote:
#10 rampant Jul 01, 2015 0:19:34	The level 3 menace ability seems like a non-ability, isn't hindering already a thing?   Question if you're expert tutoring someone, wouldn't it be better to just make the check instead and get your full proficiency bonus?    YOu're doing somethign wierd with the skills and I'm not sure what's up.   Field medic sound slike it shoudl require the heal skill.
#11 Mechatarrasque Jul 01, 2015 13:05:58	I like it.  It feels very 5e, and all the subclasses are worth playing.   For menanceing, I would move the level 10 ability to level 14, and at level 10 give the marshal the bezerker's intimodating presence ability (which also a level 10 ability).   For tactical's 14th, I would go with something like you can aid 2 allies as long as they are both within your long distance aid range.
#12 Nozareem Jul 01, 2015 13:25:48	How about instead of a second attack as bonuse action you can command a ally you can see to use their attack at  5th level.
#13 ChrisCarlson Jul 01, 2015 13:36:41	Unlimited granting of off-turn ally attacks is not a good idea in 5e. It just isn't.   5e's core design structure and action economy is not built for it.   You're never going to be able to get around that hard fact.
#14 rampant Jul 02, 2015 9:38:55	You keep spouting that but you never explain why. Furthemore you never explain why it's so much more problematic for 5th then it would be for any other edition.
#15 ChrisCarlson Jul 02, 2015 9:46:31	rampant wrote:
#16 rampant Jul 02, 2015 9:54:35	Not a one.   First of all, off turn for who? THe attacker or the granter? because generally one of those is on their turn when it happens, usually the granter. Secondly it's never unlimited The power that lets you grant the action costs something, usually an action from the granter so there's nothing unlimited going on.    My question is WHAT about 5e makes such things less tenable. I am not saying the edition doesn't matter, I'm asking why you claim this edition is less compatible with aaction grants than... say 4e since it's the one that did the most aciton grants I can name off the top of my head.   Furthermore it just doens't seem like as big a an action economy disruption as say summons or mind control which basically let you get a second turn even if the body taking it is a bit iffy, to say nothing of straight up necromancy.
#17 ChrisCarlson Jul 02, 2015 9:59:05	rampant wrote:
#18 rampant Jul 02, 2015 10:11:17	The battle master is a subclass of the fighter, it is far and away from being the utmost limits of team work powers.   Action grants cannot give more sneak attacks on other peoples' turns than the battle master already does. In fact a 5e battle master can hand out more sneak attacks on is turn than a 4e style action granter could.
#19 mellored Jul 02, 2015 10:37:33	Ashrym wrote:
#20 ChrisCarlson Jul 02, 2015 10:51:57	rampant wrote:
#21 mellored Jul 02, 2015 11:01:31	Mechatarrasque wrote:
#22 mellored Jul 02, 2015 11:05:33	Oh, and a wizard can use crown of maddness at-will.  Which makes enemies attack themselves, with a full action.   Actually, making enemies attack themselves would be a good addition somewhere in here.
#23 ChrisCarlson Jul 02, 2015 11:20:02	Arguments built around "OMG look what a 20th level character can do" are almost always funny to me.   Good one. Thanks for the chuckle.   Oh, also, guess you just made the argument that battlemasters can make great warlords in the action grant department. Thanks!
#24 Ashrym Jul 02, 2015 11:28:13	I would be inclined to separate the multiple attacks and reaction attacks into separate subclasses to prevent doing both every turn. They seem balanced against each other but an obvious choice if they can be combined, and moreso if the optional marking rule is being used.
#25 mellored Jul 02, 2015 11:56:55	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#26 mellored Jul 02, 2015 11:57:44	Ashrym wrote:
#27 ChrisCarlson Jul 02, 2015 12:03:52	mellored wrote:
#28 mellored Jul 02, 2015 12:08:05	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#29 Elfcrusher Jul 02, 2015 12:19:59	rampant wrote:
(Reply to #26) Ashrym	mellored wrote:
#31 ChrisCarlson Jul 02, 2015 12:56:33	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #29) Ashrym	Elfcrusher wrote:
#33 Elfcrusher Jul 02, 2015 14:04:31	Ashrym wrote:
(Reply to #32) Mechatarrasque	Ashrym wrote:
#35 ChrisCarlson Jul 02, 2015 14:26:52	Elfcrusher wrote:
(Reply to #35) bawylie	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #33) Ashrym	Elfcrusher wrote:
#38 Elfcrusher Jul 02, 2015 15:13:53	bawylie wrote:
#39 Elfcrusher Jul 02, 2015 15:12:49	Ashrym wrote:
#40 bawylie Jul 02, 2015 15:42:52	What about "commands" or "orders" (or whatever) that open up options?    For instance, the warlordy dude calls Retreat, and you can disengage as a bonus action on your turn.    Up to you if you use it, but beneficial.    Or he says "Steady Everybody" and your next wisdom saving throw gets advantage?
(Reply to #39) Ashrym	Elfcrusher wrote:
#42 ChrisCarlson Jul 02, 2015 16:15:08	bawylie wrote:
#43 Elfcrusher Jul 02, 2015 16:24:57	bawylie wrote:
#44 Elfcrusher Jul 02, 2015 16:34:40	Ashrym wrote:
#45 rampant Jul 02, 2015 17:30:53	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#46 bawylie Jul 02, 2015 21:25:07	I am not at this point convinced it needs its own class. I'm thinking of a subclass.  And I'm also considering minions (as we saw in one of the packets) and maybe you get to boss those dudes around.
#47 rampant Jul 02, 2015 21:47:28	If you just want 1 maybe 2 aspects of what the 4e warlord brough to the table then yes go for the sub-classes. If all you want is to boss some dude(s) around then a subclass is more than adequate and we have a nice selection of classes that would be more than compatible with that concept.
(Reply to #44) Ashrym	Elfcrusher wrote:
(Reply to #46) Ashrym	bawylie wrote:
#50 rampant Jul 02, 2015 22:24:53	The battle master is only a warlord-like sub-class in that it the least far away from being a warlord (without magic).
#51 FrogReaver Jul 02, 2015 23:18:28	Base class analysis:   Level 1: Get's nearly the equivalent of the Inspiring Leader feat (one of the best feats any variant human can take at level 1). Ability is too strong.   Level 2: Help as bonus action (this is another amazingly strong ability early game where everyone only has a single attack).   Level 5: At will ability to trade your attack action (a single attack at this level) for an allys single attack + your int mod. In the right party this is very strong (need a rogue for full advantage, however, any melee class's attack will outdamage your single attack at level 5).   So far it's looking like this class doesn't have to put any resources into his offensive abilities to be strong offensively. Pretty much he's always better letting an ally attack at this point on.   Conclusion up to level 5. Based on the primary class the character has limited reasons to invest in anything but intelligence as a stat. You probably want 14 dex as well but that's simply for AC and it's good to have a moderate attack of your own pre level 5.   You build for intelligence instead of str or dex.   Further thoughts: For early levels as long as one PC has a pretty high attack damage then this class remains very competitive in DPR through level 5 just from his base class features (ally advantage and extra attacks). On top of that he get's good healing utility and we haven't even mentioned his other out of combat abilities.   ….........   Level 7: for combat you choose the initiative boost. +1 to the whole parties initiative has about the same effect as taking the alert feat in terms of how much it helps your party go before the enemies.   Level 9: reaction ability to give disadvantage to attack roll targeting ally. (Depends a lot on if this can be used before or after the first attack roll).   Level 11: whole turn advantage for an ally (very strong).   Conclusion up to level 11: you have an ability comparable to inspiring leader you have an ability comparable to alert you can grant a single ally advantage for his whole turn you do moderate to very good damage depending on your party makeup with comanders strike you have a very nice ally damage reduction ability this is all without looking at subclass features   Not a frighteningly strong class at this level but solid. ***When a rogue is in the party this class is too good.   ….........................   Level 13 commanders strike for a cantril. Cantrips at this tier may be the highest single damage attacks outside rogues (eldritch blast is even better). As such this is a very useful ability to bring your DPR up to a baseline.   Level 15 even better reaction defense ability for an ally. Heck yea!   Level 17: you just broke the game. A single use of commanders strike for up to 3 attacks which can come from cantrips, sneak attack, and everything else inbetween. There's just too many setups where this will become the strongest ability in the game.   Level 18: basically +3 for the whole party if a single character is proficient. (All characters get +3 bonus if 2 or more are proficient in same skill).   Level 20: all this should be giving you is disadvantage on attacks against you since you shouldn't ever be making an attack.   Conclusion: the class you created is OP in combat and OP out of combat by max level. And this is without looking at the subclasses at all. …...............................   You had a good thing going up till level 11. After that it got out of hand really fast.
#52 FrogReaver Jul 02, 2015 23:31:38	Subclass Analysis:   The only two subaclasses I see worth anything are Inspring and tactical   Inspring Level 3: Bonus action for advantage on attacks and THP to ally Level 6: additional benefit for ending effects an ally is under Level 10: twice cha THP on ally when helping Level 14: all allys gain cha THP and the ally you help possibly gains 3x cha THP????   Tactical Level 3: Additional range on help bonus action (based on int) Level 6: ability to help ranged allies get out of OA's Level 10: more range for help bonus action (based on int) Level 14: 2 allies get whole turn advantage   --------------------------------------- I'd say tactical is the best.  Followed closely by inspiring.  The additional range on help is too useful.  Add to that the eventual ability to give 2 allies turn long advantage.  We are alrady approaching too strong.
#53 FrogReaver Jul 02, 2015 23:32:37	Ultimate conclusion.  This warlod attempt suffers from the same as all the rest.  Once multiple attacks are added in the action economy gets all warped when trying to grant extra attacks.
#54 Elfcrusher Jul 03, 2015 6:42:42	Yeah, the design premise "bad at attacks, good at everything else, but can give up its attacks in order to let an optimized class get an extra one" is inherently broken, in my mind.  Unless I'm not understanding the mechanics, it sounds like getting something for nothing.  Maybe if it were tweaked such that the extra attack used the Warlord's stats instead of the selected ally's.
(Reply to #54) FrogReaver	Elfcrusher wrote:
#56 rampant Jul 03, 2015 7:29:00	The big problem is is that 5e classes are balanced aorund the action level rather than the individual attack level. If you want to do offensive action grants as an at-will you can't go around trading single attacks for things like cantrips or sneak attacks. You have to trade the whole action.
#57 bawylie Jul 03, 2015 7:51:06	Right. And that's the issue with employing minions too. Lotta actions tossed around.
(Reply to #56) FrogReaver	rampant wrote:
#59 mellored Jul 03, 2015 9:28:32	commander's strike is a whole action. so your trading 1 action and a reaction, for 1 action worth of damage. that's a actually a trade-off for rogues who can't dodge, or warlock who can't use polearm momentum. it's not a whole lot differen't then haste. and yes, having forsight on yourself isn't too big of a deal if you don't attack yourself. the problem isn't that it's too strong with a rogue, since 2 rogues would do the same damage as a rouge + warlord. it's that it's too weak with a fighter. actually, i should change the level 17 to grant an action.
(Reply to #59) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#61 ChrisCarlson Jul 03, 2015 9:55:03	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #61) FrogReaver	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #61) FrogReaver	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#64 draegn Jul 03, 2015 10:31:32	IMO the warlord should be a skill based character that uses skills to negate party disadvantages.   Skill tactics (woodland)-- removes penalties for moving through difficult woodland terrain. Skill awareness-- can spot potential ambushes before they occur. Skill oratory-- can rally allies who have suffered moral loss.   etc etc etc   The pseudo MtG powers need to go.
#65 mellored Jul 03, 2015 12:29:36	i tweaked the level 5, 11, and 17 commander's strike to scale better. 5: single attack with +int, no sneak attack or other boosts. 11: 2 attacks or cantrip, no restrictions. 17: full action, no restrictions,
#66 mellored Jul 03, 2015 12:31:20	@draegn, advantage already negates disavantage. but that's not a bad idea.
#67 mellored Jul 03, 2015 12:45:00	i also gave all warlords multi-attack @7. bravada get's a fighting style.
(Reply to #61) rampant	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #65) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#70 rampant Jul 03, 2015 15:27:17	That line on the 5th level commander's strike needs twork, you don't explain what an ability like rogue's sneak attack is beyond sneak attack so it could mean anythign from just sneak attack to include nerfing feats and fighting style  advantages.  I suggest you scrap it.   Yeah enduring advantage from help and that int bonus to damage are really over the top dude. Look you're over complicationg the action grant Just use this: As an action you may direct an ally allowing them to move and fight more efficiently. The targeted ally may cast a cantrip, make an attack action as if it were their turn, take the dodge action, or the dash action.   That's about the best way to do at-will action grants in 5e that don't wildly swing the power level of any one class out of proportion, and it wont break the game in any manner I've ever seen or been shown (no matter how much people rant without giving a solid rgument, if I'm wrong about this someone please explain how, don't just rant about battle masters being the be-all end-all despite the fact that it's no more a warlord than a bard is a master of conjuration.
#71 Hebitsuikaza Jul 03, 2015 15:53:32	Okay, I see two issues right away.   First, classes have generally avoided thus far allowing other people to act off-turn anymore than possible. You have kind of put a little too much of that into the class. That would be problematic as this character would likely be screwing up initiative order and interrupting the flow a bit too much.   Furthermore, the Commander Strike ability for instance, giving the ability to an ally to attack instantly also relies more on the ability of the ally rather than the character. A high level character would be happy to drag around a low level Marshal to get that free extra attack a turn while a high level Marshal would be wasting that action on a low-level Fighter.   Instead of having someone else go immediately and have the power almost completely dependent upon their power, why not instead sacrifice one of your attacks in order to grant ally an additional +1d10 plus either your Intelligence or Charisma bonus to damage (or Intelligence bonus to hit and charisma bonus to damage) to their next attack.   The effects of this power won't resolve until that ally's initiative order and there is a chance it will miss (but then there is a chance you will miss) and there is a chance the ally will be knocked out before they have a chance to use it-- but that is why it is +1d10 instead of +1d6.   Second, the fact that their attributes are being used relatively sparsely which means not very much reason to raise them. Not as much as other classes have anyway.   Also, I think I might avoid giving them multiattack, because Clerics never get multiattack. Also, once multiattack comes into play then the player needs to really consider whether the effect of their class action is really better than getting 2 attacks-- that shouldn't have to be a consideration.
#72 Elfcrusher Jul 03, 2015 16:19:24	Hebitsuikaza wrote:
#73 mellored Jul 05, 2015 10:52:40	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #60) SleepsInTraffic	FrogReaver wrote:
#75 Elfcrusher Jul 05, 2015 11:50:47	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #73) Ashrym	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #73) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#78 mellored Jul 06, 2015 5:44:25	Elfcrusher wrote:
#79 mellored Jul 06, 2015 6:03:32	Ashrym wrote:
#80 mellored Jul 06, 2015 6:07:01	FrogReaver wrote:
#81 ChrisCarlson Jul 06, 2015 9:36:43	FrogReaver wrote:
#82 rampant Jul 06, 2015 10:10:53	Now there we have a legitimate point. If you're going to give the warlord that kind of action grant you have to treat it with the respect it deserves.  I.e. a lot. It's a very potent power and while not inherently broken, it's definetely top tier as an at-will. It is very much an offensive power and a deadly one. Especially in 5e given the added emphasis of the at-will action. One of the reasons it probably shouldn't exist before level 5. It is not soemthign you want cherry picked casually.
(Reply to #80) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#84 mellored Jul 06, 2015 10:32:39	rampant wrote:
#85 FrogReaver Jul 06, 2015 10:34:42	So the first step to a decent comparison is to create the ally we will be primarily utilizing.   I'm going to make this character a Fighter using a longbow and sharpshooter.  Unlike the last round of analysis I'm going to factor in precision attack this time as well.   I'm going to look at the numbers from a daily perspective.  (Assuming 2 short rests and 6 combats a day each lasting 4 rounds).   Preliminary Calculations for precision attack: 1.  You get 18 superiority dice of size 1d12 per day. 2.  You make 72+9 = 81 total attacks in the day.  (From action surge and attack action every turn) 3.  81 attacks means you will roll 1 approximately 4 times.  You will roll 2 approximately 4 times and so on. 4.  This means you will miss by 1 approximately 4 times.  You will miss by 2 approximately 4 times...   So on average you will turn 4 misses by into hits 12/12 of the time. You will turn 4 misses by 2 into hits 11/12 of the time You will turn 4 misses by 3 into hits 10/12 of the time You will turn 4 misses by 4 into hits 9/12 of the time You will turn 2 misses by 5 into hits 8/12 of the time.   (48+44+40+36+16) / 12 = 15   You will trun on average about 15 misses into hits.  This is 15 times where you are doing guaranteed damage.     Final Calculatrions   1.  Let the fighter have a 70% chance to hit base. 2.  Let the fighter with sharpshooter have a 45% chance to hit. 3.  The fighter does 1d8 + 15 damage (19.5 avg)   So fighter DPR on his own is. 1.  From attacking and nothing else:  0.45*19.5*3*24 = 631.8 Damage per day   2.  From Action Surge: 3*3*.45*19.5 = 78.975 Damage per Day   3.  From precision attack: 15*19.5= 292.5 Damage per Day   Total Damage per Day = 1003.275
#86 Bluenose Jul 06, 2015 10:36:03	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#87 ChrisCarlson Jul 06, 2015 10:40:00	Bluenose wrote:
(Reply to #84) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #84) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#90 Bluenose Jul 06, 2015 10:52:51	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#91 ChrisCarlson Jul 06, 2015 10:58:07	Bluenose wrote:
(Reply to #85) FrogReaver	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #90) FrogReaver	Bluenose wrote:
#94 mellored Jul 06, 2015 11:08:11	FrogReaver wrote:
#95 ChrisCarlson Jul 06, 2015 11:19:53	mellored wrote:
#96 mellored Jul 06, 2015 11:32:13	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #92) FrogReaver	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #96) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#99 mellored Jul 06, 2015 11:35:28	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#100 ChrisCarlson Jul 06, 2015 12:03:45	mellored wrote:
#101 mellored Jul 06, 2015 12:11:34	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #98) FrogReaver	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #101) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#104 ModusPonens Jul 06, 2015 12:40:56	mellored wrote:
#105 mellored Jul 06, 2015 13:12:20	FrogReaver wrote:
#106 mellored Jul 06, 2015 12:57:21	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #105) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #105) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#109 FrogReaver Jul 06, 2015 13:28:16	After correcting for no advantage granted on action surge difference the warlord does 694.98 + 631.8 = 1327 Damage    That's 32.3% more damage than the fighter.  Now we are starting to be in the same ball park as the bard.  But i'm still seeing no ASI or feat investment to reach that ballpark...
#110 FrogReaver Jul 06, 2015 13:37:38	Now that we are happy with the DPR level comparing to a sharpshooter using fighter let's compare to a non-sharpshooter using fighter.   Fighter non-sharpshooter Attack Damage .7*9.5*24*3 = 478.8   Action Surge Damage = 59.85   *You will not use precision attack if you don't use sharpshooter.  You get more from the +1d12 damage than from +1d12 attack. Battlemaster Dice Damage = 117   Non Sharpshooter Fighter Damage  = 655.65   ------------------------------------------------------------------------     Warlord advantage casues 143.64 more damage per use and can be used twice per turn.   That's 287.28 Damage per turn from advantage   You also will do 478.8 damage per turn from granting the fighter 3 attacks.   Combined Damage for Warlord = 766.08   766 / 656 = 16.8% more damage.     So for a non-optimized fighter you are dealing about 17% more damage than him.  For an optimized fighter you are dealing nearly 33% more damage than him.   I'd say that's reasonable.  Considering there are other sources of advantage that you will sometimes compete with that will actually knock your DPR down a little more.
#111 mellored Jul 06, 2015 13:41:48	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #111) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#113 mellored Jul 06, 2015 13:48:44	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #113) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#115 FrogReaver Jul 06, 2015 13:58:15	What does bravada do at level 14?
#116 mellored Jul 07, 2015 9:15:56	FrogReaver wrote:
#117 mellored Jul 07, 2015 9:20:38	Here's the updated bravada.   3: Heavy armor, martial weapons.  Fighting style (dualist, greatweapon, defense). 6: When you use Commander's Strike you can make a single melee attack against the same target afterward. 10: If you use commander's strike and both you and your ally hit the target, your attack is a critical. 14: Multi-Attack (3 attacks).
(Reply to #117) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#119 mellored Jul 07, 2015 9:50:44	FrogReaver wrote:
#120 Lady_Auralla Jul 08, 2015 5:06:09	mellored wrote:
#121 mellored Jul 08, 2015 5:29:32	Lady_Auralla wrote:
#122 Elfcrusher Jul 09, 2015 18:02:07	In reference to the title of this thread, I just want to submit that if the class were indeed called "Whatever" then I would happily withdraw most of my objections.
(Reply to #122) bawylie	Elfcrusher wrote:
#124 mellored Jul 11, 2015 21:22:38	personally i would prefer "captain", but would have no problem playing it if it was called "whatever". anyone have any other suggestions or balance concerns?
#125 rampant Jul 12, 2015 11:36:28	Yeah there's still somethign wrong with the skills and field medic probably doens't need a daily.
#126 mellored Jul 12, 2015 12:02:31	rampant wrote:
#127 rampant Jul 12, 2015 16:05:17	Well the big problem is that they don't seem to get any skills, despite expertise, which really needs to be explained a bit more, at least say 'as the rogue ability' or whatever. I'm confused on field medic, where wis the limit on HD spent? You or your targets?
#128 mellored Jul 12, 2015 20:06:26	ah, yes they need to get some basic skills. and i'm not fully decided on how much healing. should it be similar to paladin's lay on hands? or more because they don't have spells?
#129 rampant Jul 13, 2015 15:13:01	Ok who are you limiting? Does the warlord only hand out 1 HD/level of boosted healing per day? Or is that per target per day?
#130 mellored Jul 13, 2015 20:20:38	it would make more story sense if it was per target. so 1HD/level per target per day.
#131 rampant Jul 13, 2015 20:51:20	Then don't bother with the limit at all.
#132 mellored Jul 14, 2015 5:10:22	rampant wrote:
#133 rampant Jul 14, 2015 7:09:09	I think you need to back this up a bit and look at what you want the ability to do, Right now you're turning every warlord into a battlefield surgeon. You have a couple of options from where I sit: 1.) Rework the ability entirely to make it more like the 4e healing powers of leaders.   2.) Move it higher up in the level count    3.) Switch Int mod for warlord level.
#134 Diffan Jul 14, 2015 13:05:40	I like #3, though maybe 1/2 Warlord level?