Let's do a Q&A and talk about all the things I want to talk about. Lets put a disclaimer out at the start to state that I am not going to answer any questions on the burning subject on everyones mind. Digital Tools.
Nice one Wizards, a great way to inspire people to jump away from what is at the moment a great product.....
How fantastically dramatic.
Let's definitely take Mike not being able to comment on a topic and stating that up front so that the Q&A isn't just a bunch of questions to which Mike answers "Can't talk about that right now." as some kind of problem that should convince people to "jump away" from a great product.
talsharien wrote:
pukunui wrote:
I liked this part of the thread according to Mealrs the 5E design influence.
For influences: * 3e's core mechanics, and the concept of unifying things across the board * 4e's approach to a core math foundation, and emphasis on giving every class something cool and unique (might sounds weird to people due to AEDU, but dud classes were a big issue in 3e that 4e really curtailed) * 1e's emphasis on the DM as arbiter and referee, taking priority over the system * 2e's emphasis on roleplaying and storytelling, along with the 2e DMG's presentation of options and variants for the DM
I think he got that part right in terms of achieving thast goal.
Mike is the Brand Manager for D&D. Which mean's he's in charge of the small department of 11 people in the company of 200 people.
He has four or five levels of boss above him. There's a LOT he likely has no control over and cannot talk about.
The_Jester wrote:
On PDFs -- "We're definitely looking at PDFs, ebooks, and other digital platforms, but no news yet. The goal with anything along those lines will be grow D&D, not just sell ebooks to people who already play the game, so we're putting a lot of work into figuring out that side of the equation."
On digital tools -- "We're evaluating plans for digital tools and publishing as I type this. Nothing to report yet, but when we have news we'll share it. I know it's frustrating to not hear, but we want to avoid making announcements that lead nowhere. In the long term, I think that's worse than delaying things today."
More on digital stuff -- "We definitely want to do tools and ebooks. Right now, we're looking at platforms and technology. We want to take an approach similar to what we did with 5e - get to know what people are doing with the game, how they're doing it, and what value we can offer. It's not as simple as selling PDFs, in terms of finding a path that grows D&D and creates a big, upward shift in D&D's accessibility."
Digital again (people kept asking!) -- "We want to produce both tools and ebooks - we're simply at the stage now of planning out how we want to do that in a way that grows D&D."
Mistwell wrote:
Two years developing 5e and they are still trying to figure out digital platforms.
Sounds like spin to me.
pukunui wrote:
They spent two years developing the ruleset. I doubt they spent a significant portion of those two years thinking about digital tools.
The_Jester wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
Funny thing is that link doesn't even include all the ex-D&D staff, likely the contractor staff like my friend who was one of the developers on the original (downloadable) digital tools for 4e, layed off when they changed teams and went to the online tools.
Shasarak wrote:
pukunui wrote:
So what is this Q&A you are talking about? Can anyone link it?
Shasarak wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
LupusRegalis wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
The only way we'll get really great digital tools is in the unlikely event that WotC opens the license. As long as a print publishing company holds the reins, we will be disappointed.
That's not a criticism of WotC in particular, just an observation of what happens when print businesses wrestle with digital.
talsharien wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Honestly, if I want a digital game experience, I play a video game. I have a PC, I have a PS3, I have a DS, and I even still have a boxed up PS2 and X-Box that stil work.
D&D, IMO, is all about pencil, paper, books, a battle mat, dice, drawing maps on graph paper, telling stories around a table with friends, etc.
Sure, I liked the 4e digital tools, especially at first. But none of that is really necessary.
It's also a bit incorrect to assume everyone has (or will have in the very near future) a tablet, smart phone, or whatever the next over-priced iGadget is. I don't have a tablet, smart phone, or whatever...And I doubt I'll be getting any of that stuff anytime soon. They are over priced, and they come out with a new one every few months. They also all come with very high monthly fees to even be useful. It's better for me to just get a new desktop PC when I need to, and leave the iToys to the iBoys.
It simply amazes me that a handful of people are making so much 'noise' because they feel the game is completely unplayable or that the world has literally come to an end due to there being no official digital 'tools'. I mean really...
The game started out as a "pencil, paper, and books" format for playing and worked just fine...and it still does even now. Can digital 'tools' add a nice touch? Sure, but they are far from necessary and to be honest, I feel that they do not add that much to the game...
Jenks wrote:
Akeisha wrote:
I will just point out, once again, Wizards is just bad at digital stuff in general
Like, even their Magic digital stuff is pretty bad.
dafrca wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Well obviously their market share for non-digital format is higher. The only digital format at the moment is the free basic rules. 
People are right.. we played with pen and paper and dead tree product for years. We can again. But the BIG question here is WHY when the option is available... SHOULD WE???
WotC and the D&D line are mainly a Paper product. They are missing out on an entire market share of people WANTING PDF versions of their product. They tell us it is about profit and more so then even most companies. That if they don't make a certain amount of money that the plug could get pulled. (According to what we have heard from Mike Mearls AND several people here (not exactly in this thread but in several others on the WotC boards). So why leave a market share of people wanting the PDF's of the product on the floor when all it is, is product!!!
People also mention here in this thread that WotC should not do PDF's nor do they want WotC to do so... yet they are doing it with their Organized play formats and adventure books that are now out in print. The Hoard of the Dragon Queen has a major Online supplement as well as Rise of Tiamat. All the Expeditons adventures are only available as PDF's.
So the bottom line is that it is a large profit margin WotC is potentially missing out on by not doing it. if you as a person think that they can afford to do it.. keep saying that we once played Pen and Paper and we can do it again without digital formats and or tools. If it is about profit... it is just MORE profit if WotC does this. So it will only benefit them!!
There is more then just the "Basic" rules online.
http://dndadventurersleague.org/downloads/
Imagine if they put the books and such online as a PDF and charged for it they would get more profit. If they got someone to do digital tools such as Hero Lab and Realm Works they would get even MORE profit from it. So why not do it, if the bottom line is profit as they say?
Here's one reason they should offer Digital Options:
Because the Market has changed from even 10 years ago, and Digital Products are what the Fanbase are looking for.
Seriously, this shouldn't even be a question. There's a reason Tablets and E-readers (and Phablets, for cris sake) are so popular, and thats Convienience and eas of use. I have the basic PDF's on my Nook Tablet, and I've setup bookmarks for the sections I use most often. I can switch books, find the section I need to reference, and go back to the book and spot I was at before in the time it takes for people to find the Reference they were looking for using a book.
I literally have hundreds of books on my Nook, and unlike a phone the battery lasts for days.
What I hear in this thread is a lot of Grognard and 'Rose-tinted Glasses', people grumbling about how the game has changed and adapted. I've been playing since the early 90's, so while I'm not one of the OG crew, I've got more than 20+ years of off and on playing in. Digital is where the market is at currently, and likely will only adapt from here in unexpected ways. Time to either bow out or get on the train...
I think most of this discussion is missing a couple of key points.
The argument that digital tools should be built because "that's what people expect" is saying, essentially, that there's no good reason other than that it's whizzy and cool. "There's an app for that." It's no wonder that at least half (if not more) of the posters don't want it, and they don't want technology at the table.
But there is a good reason to build digital tools, and that reason is to make the games more playable, and thus grow the market. RPG games are complex, and most people find the learning curve a turn-off, and the bookkeeping work during play a buzzkill. Those of us on these forums, as demonstrated by the fact that we're here, are the tiny tiny minority who have decided that we don't mind the complexity and bookkeeping and the learning curve...in fact we thrive on it. But we are not representative.
Now, I'm sure there are voices that don't want to grow the market if it means bringing in people who don't share "our" values.
I was a rock climber during the growth of sport climbing, and let me tell you there were voices (including mine) that thought all those lycra-clad, drill totin' pansies were going to ruin the sport. They didn't, but by making it safe the sport grew by orders of magnitude. And of course there are bunch of crusty old climbers who think the sport has been ruined....but mostly because they aren't the crazy iconoclasts they used to be. They hate being mainstream.
I think the same thing is possible with RPGs, except the barrier to entry isn't safety, it's complexity. Digital tools could lower that barrier.
The sorts of tools we've (mostly) seen so far...character builders, digital character sheets, virtual table tops...are only the beginning of what would be needed. The first step is to make it easy for first-time players to participate without knowing the rules. But the real holy grail will be tools that make it easy to DM. Well, not easy to DM, because weaving a good tale is always going to be hard. But we need to reduce or eliminate the mindless bookkeeping part of DMing. Because the gating factor is DM's: there just aren't enough of them.
So...do "we" need digital tools? No, we don't. We wouldn't be here, fanatical gamers, if we did. But if digital tools can make it easier for novices to participate, and eliminate the bookkeeping part of the game that most people do not find fun, RPGs have a chance of going mainstream. And although some of you might not like the idea of all those people invading your turf, a bigger market will mean better prices on more content, some of which will be higher quality.
One other analogue: the iPod. When the iPod was first announced, pretty much everybody on Slashdot (a nerdy community site) predicted it would fail because, compared to their favorite mp3 player, it didn't have as much storage or this or that feature or whatever, and was more expensive. And...horrors...it didn't support Ogg Vorbis. (Google it.) Of course they were all completely wrong, because the early adopters were not the real market.
We are not the real market for digitally enhanced RPGs.
It's a matter of accessibility.
And we do have PDFs of the basic rules.
bawylie wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Why are people shooting at mike merls?
mellored wrote:
Jenks wrote:
mellored wrote:
mellored wrote:
The_Jester wrote:
TSRO_Kip wrote:
I can't even remember if it was in this thread or another, but I want to address something ridiculous I was reading earlier today:
"If you can afford to buy the hard-copy books, then you can afford a tablet."
Okay, sure... but if I can only afford one or the other, that's not going to help me play the full version of D&D unless the tablet comes pre-loaded with it.
That a person has 150$ to spend on playing D&D does not mean they have 300$ (or whatever amount) to spend on a tablet and also D&D.
There are a lot of us out here in the world that would even like to have a tablet and plan on eventually picking on up... but that doesn't mean it is miraculously within our budget, which happens to prioritize playing table-top RPGs over buying new technology, because we have no reason to buy a tablet besides it being a cool toy.
Actually Aaron the most rediculous thing is complaining about not being able to afford to spend $150 on a rediculous toy (tablet) while at the same time spending $150 on a rediculous toy (DnD books).
That is truely truely outrageous. 
Shasarak wrote:
mellored wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
So are we shifting the goal posts from a tablet to a decent quality tablet? What ever "decent quality" means?
Shasarak wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
As soon as some RPG publisher does a great job of using technology to make it easy for new players (including new DMs) to get into gaming, that game system...no matter how bad it is...will quickly dominate the market. Because the market will be ten times larger than it is today, and all those new players will be playing the easy-to-use system.
So, all in all, I'd rather see a game system I like be the one to benefit.
Shasarak wrote:
Actually I realised that you are arguing about who can spend the least on their hobby, so obviously the answer is spend nothing and just mooch off your friends stuff.
Riiiiiiight. 
So what exactly is your angle then?
I don't see anyone saying we SHOULDN'T have digital tools for D&D. Instead what I'm seeing is people insisting that D&D be entirely digital not happy with the people who say, and rightfully so, that D&D is still going to get a larger market share and more sales from a non-digital format. Those of us who see the print books as still the most profitable and bigger market still would like to see digital tools. Hell I already have all the pdf supplements, have a growing spreadsheet of indexes, and have toyed with making my own character builder now that Dungeonscape has failed with no fault by WotC other than to listen to Trapdoor that they could produce something in a reasonable time that was functional and welcomed by the community.
You also have to keep in mind WotC isn't some small startup with one product (D&D) like some of the other RPG makers out there that are focusing on digital content, they are a larger company who's owned by an even larger one (Hasbro) so have bean counters and shareholders to answer to, and a legal team that'd have a cow about insecure IP protections from digital products (not to mention various digital licensing agreements with places like Atari that may or may not still be in effect). I think now that the partnership with Trapdoor is gone we may see a digital tool license or SRD/OGL type agreement come out that will allow 3rd party digital tool makers to support 5e officially.
WotC made an attempt to have a D&D exclusive toolset which would have helped promote the brand and given them more say than just having 5e content be a plug-in for other tools that support multiple systems. That didn't work out and I'm more inclined to put the bulk of the blame on Trapdoor for promising more than they could deliver, so they may have to fall back to allowing 5e digital content to just be a module for multi-system tools. Personally I think that'd be a good way to go as that means the community could use the tools they want to access the content.
This of course has it's own hurdles, especially when it comes to WotC making money off of it. If they don't make anything off the 3rd party tools then D&D folds because there's a loss of revenue from a decline in sales of the original WotC produced material. Digital tools aren't an add-on for an MMO that requires the MMO to be useful, these are alternate sources of the rules and material and to be useful actually replace the need for the original material. A character builder, campaign tracker, or other things that aren't rules-agnostic (which already exist like digital dice rollers, or even physical dice) are only truly useful if they contain the rules. There are some limited usefulness tools out there digitally like blank character sheets, campaign tools that don't do math but allow you to make maps and notes or maybe manually enter monster stats (as notes not a cohesive stat block in 5e format), but that's not what the community wants. We want tools that are an alternate source of the core D&D material, and that takes time and research to get right without turning D&D into an online-only PC game instead of a tabletop "pen and paper" RPG. Keep in mind "pen and paper" doesn't have to mean #2 lead and dead tree, but can be a stylus and a tablet screen as well.
My first session I used a mix of the books, index cards (for monster stats), a spreadsheet index for quick reference, dice, and a grid (with dice instead of minis though I have plenty of those handy too). We didn't even need the DMG rules for grid combat to use it, and we didn't use the grid on every combat but it helped the player's visualize the battle and didn't slow things down at all. Combat was much smoother with or without a grid than it was in 4e (heck I've been using a grid and minis since 1e anyway in most D&D games and even some non-D&D games).
RCanine wrote:
If we use digital tools to make our lives easier, then by extension, it will help a game as well. But comparing 5E with any other edition of D&D, it is more generic, abstract or simple. Therefore, of all the editions, it is the least dependent on using them. But the chasis for the game can get complex really fast with feats, subclasses, etc. So hopefully they have time to synergize digital tools as more supplements are released.
lawrencehoy wrote:
lawrencehoy wrote:
It doesn't change the fact that if I had any easy way to track monsters, initaitive, and maps on my lap top I would be using it at the table. It's only niche because noone has figured out to a good way to make it happen in a manner that is easy for the GM.
The indie TTRPG scene has exploded in the last few years. But based on the theories/attitudes/opinions of some, I don't see how that can be possible. Nearly all of those systems have a distinct lack digital app support. Perplexing. Someone needs to let them know they're doing it wrong.
What's weird about this whole conversation is, WotC decided to withdraw from Dungeonscape because they weren't satisified with its quality (that's my best guess, at any rate) and now that's seen as evidence that they don't care about the quality of digital products.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
TSRO_Kip wrote:
ZaranBlack wrote:
DocSun wrote:
ZaranBlack wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Hitdice wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Hitdice wrote:
In the meantime, I believe most people here are competent enough to use a spreadsheet (Excel, OpenOffice, etc.).
It's simplicity itself to track monsters, players, HP on this digital tool. And if you use the OpenOffice tools it is even free.
Rather than complain, do something.
very disappointed. Why wasn't this called Mike Mearls Dodging the Bullette!?
lawrencehoy wrote:
I don't disagree, TSRO, but how is withdrawing from a below par character builder more relevent to whether or not WotC is embracing digital formats than the updates we've seen to the Basic pdf so far? The first 5e product hit the shelves three months ago, give or take, so it's a little early for an AAR on WotC's performance.