monster DCs

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

pukunui

Aug 17, 2014 5:24:31

I've been looking at the monsters provided in the Basic Rules and while many of them have DCs that seem to work on the 8 + ability mod + proficiency bonus formula, some of them do not.

 

Let's take the adult red dragon first. It's got three abilities with save DCs.

Frightful Presence seems to be based on Cha: 8 + Cha (+5) + CR 17 PB (+6) = DC 19.

Fire Breath seems to be based on Con: 8 + Con (+7) + CR 17 PB (+6) = DC 21.

Wing Attack seems to be based on Str: 8 + Str (+8) + CR 17 PB (+6) = DC 22.

 

The air elemental's whirlwind has a DC 13 Dex save. That looks like 8 + Con or Str (+2) + CR 5 PB (+3) = DC 13.

 

The banshee's horrifying visage seems to be Cha-based: 8 + Cha (+3) + CR 4 PB (+2) = DC 13. It's Wail might also be Cha-based, since it's also DC 13.

 

But then we come to the elephant. Its Trampling Charge includes a knockdown effect with a DC of 12. As a CR 4 creature, it has a PB of +2. If we start with 8, that leaves us with 10. The elephant hasn't got an ability score with a +2 modifier, so where's the extra +2 coming from? If it was Str-based, which seems to make the most sense in the context, then the DC ought to be 16, since the elephant's Strength is 22 (+6).

 

Directly below the elephant is the elk. It's a CR 1/4 creature, so it also has a PB of +2. Its Charge ability has a knockdown effect with DC of 13. It seems to be Str-based: 8 + Str (+3) + CR 1/4 PB (+2) = DC 13.

 

 

Perhaps the elephant's DC is just a typo?

#2

Baptor

Aug 18, 2014 15:44:46

I made a post about this a few weeks ago. There seems to be no rationale I can see to monster DC's.

I found the same to be true with size bonuses and penalties. Large creatures got -1 to hit, but huge creatures I examined got -1 or -2. It's baffling.

#3

pukunui

Aug 18, 2014 15:58:53

Well, as you can see in my first post, most of the DCs I looked at did seem to follow the 8 + ability mod + prof bonus formula, which is why I'm wondering if may be the elephant's DC is wrong.

 

I haven't noticed any penalties to hit for large creatures, though. The Huge size adult red dragon in the Basic Rules has a +14 to hit, which is its +8 Str mod plus its +6 CR 17 proficiency bonus.

#4

Alynn

Aug 18, 2014 16:11:34

I'm guessing the elephants size comes into play as well for this particular attack.

#5

pukunui

Aug 19, 2014 1:12:57

Shouldn't that make it a higher DC, since the elephant is quite large? Why would it have a -4 penalty to its DC because of its size?

#6

Noon

Aug 19, 2014 2:57:28

If it gets more damage on the attack due to size, then increasing the DC would be double dipping. Simulationists (when they are DM's and don't face the sharp end of the stick) might love that. Gameplay wise though, it's the sharp end of the stick.

#7

Eric888

Aug 19, 2014 3:30:18

Don't spend to long looking at monster stats, you'll just get upset.

 

Case in point: Ogre and Griffon. Same CR, same HP, same to hit. Griffon flies and does 19 damage; ogre has no abilties, worse AC, and does 13 damage.

 

Remember these guys made the Needlefang Drake Swarm in 4e. Set your expectations a little lower.