Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Xeviat-DM Aug 06, 2014 20:05:16	So, we now know that the Extra Attack class feature doesn't stack when multiclassing. Most weapon using classes get Extra Attack at 5th level. The Fighter gets it again at 11th level and 20th level.   My question is this: Why can't they stack? You'd have to be 5th level in two classes to get 2 extra attacks, which is about the same time as the Fighter. Without a damage boost around 11th level, you're going to fall behind. Similarly, to get 4 attacks, just like the fighter, you'd need to go 11 fighter/9 something else. I suppose you'd want to avoid 5/5/5/5 getting 5 attacks, but I suspect such a character would be missing a lot by not having higher level abilities.   What are your thoughts on this?
#2 GladiusLegis Aug 06, 2014 22:04:36	Short answer: Balance.   Slightly longer answer: Fighter 11/Barbarian 9 getting the full 4 base attacks per round would be really, really broken, for example. Lv. 20 Fighters are balanced out (somewhat) by their lack of class-native per-hit damage bonuses and inability to generate advantage by themselves on every single attack they make.   Another example: Paladin (Vengeance) 15/Fighter 5 getting 3 base attacks + the very likely extra reaction attack, with the Vengeance Oath spell being Haste, would also result in ridiculous damage.
#3 seti Aug 06, 2014 21:56:05	I think if it were to come up at my table, and be an issue, I'd want to houserule...Something.   My wife wants to MC rogue/wizard, so no extra attacks. No one else wants to MC. We did decide that spells (even cantrips) don't ever work with sneak attack, however. That's about it.   For a fighter/wizard, at a total of 5 levels, I'd allow an extra melee attack, I think. But not level 3 spells, until the wizard half reached level 5, of course. Because: fighters, and especially MC fighters, might need that extra boost or really fall behind with damage-dealing.   Obviously, We have to see the MC rules in the PHB.
#4 TiaNadiezja Aug 06, 2014 22:03:29	seti wrote:
#5 GhostStepper Aug 06, 2014 22:42:50	The more i look at multiclassing, the less i'm liking it. The stacking caster level thing is nice but missing out on the default class milestones is pretty harsh. I'd rather the multiclassing be balanced around opportunity costs and limited access to starting packages than screwing up attack progressions and feat access. ATM, i actually like both 4e and 3e multiclassing better, which is sort of ridiculous.
#6 Shasarak Aug 06, 2014 22:51:33	Xeviat-DM wrote:
#7 Xeviat-DM Aug 06, 2014 23:31:32	Fighter (Champion) 11/Barbarian 9 would miss out on the following abilities from the Fighter:   2x ability score improvements (barbarian 9 probably gets them at 4, 8, 12, 16, 19 like everyone else; fighter gets 12, 14, 16, 19) 2 uses of Indomitable 1 use of Action Surge 18-20 crit range 5+Con mod regen when between half hp and 0 hp.   They'd lose out on the following abilities from the Barbarian (based on the chart http://www.dungeonbastard.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/barbarian_p2.jpg):   At least 2 uses of rage (9th level barbarian has 4, 19th has 6, 20th has unlimited) 2 Path features Relentless Rage 2 dice of Brutal Critical Persistent Rage +1 damage from Rage Indomitable Might Primal Champion   My only concern is that a Fighter 5/Barbarian 5 has 3 attacks when the Fighter has to wait till 11, and the Fighter 11/Barbarian 5 has 4 attacks when the Fighter has to wait till 17. That almost suggests multiclassing could have a level 0, but that's complicated.   Now, instead of those high level fighter abilities, the Fighter11/Barbarian 9 does get:   4 uses of rage (probably enough to get them through a day; I don't know why it goes above this) for +3 damage and damage resistance Unarmored Defense (not useful, unless they put all their ability bumps into maxing Str, Dex, and Con) Danger Sense (I forget what this does) 2 Primal Path features Fast Movement (I don't know if it works in heavy armor) Feral Instinct (whatever that is) and Brutal Critical (1 die)   I don't know if that's a trade off. It will be the first thing I look at when I get the books home.   I really want to see if I can remake my 3E Barbarian/Monk (started as a monk, stopped leveling because in game terms they became chaotic, left the monestary, became a barbarian of the bear totem from unearthed arcana, and was going to become a bear warrior).
#8 FrankJones Aug 06, 2014 23:32:49	Since sneak attack is now limited to ranged or finesse weapons, spells are explicitly out.   Basic Rules p. 27
(Reply to #3) gaminggirl	seti wrote: