My idea for Beast Masters

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

abs1nth

Mar 23, 2015 16:08:28

I've been reading about the complaint that the companion shouldn't work based off your attacks but should reasonably be able to attack foes by itself because instincts. I was rationalizing it at first, thinking that you using your action is sort of you giving tactical advice such as pointing out a weakness in the enemy's defense. Upon further rumination, I have to agree, though. It feels silly. Which is only strengthed by the designers saying something like this.

 

So here's my plan, I'm open to feedback, this is basically my first draft :

 

At 3rd level the Beast Master gets to choose his companion without any further scaling. He can use his action to give them tactical orders as long as the pet is in hearing range and has line of sight. An order can be preprogrammed outside of combat. They need to be fairly straight forward such as: Attack nearest foe or use help on allies. The pet has their own initiative and is controlled by the DM based on the orders. I would let the player roll for damage though.

 

At 5th level, the beast master doesn't gain an extra attack. Instead he gains the ability to command his pet on his turn freely. The pet gains all the scaling as described in the PHB plus hit dice equal to ranger levels.

 

I think this should be pretty save as the balance should be close to identical from lvl 5 on. I think this is a strong ability in exchange for an extra attack. I really didn't like foregoing your own attack to attack with your pet. This makes the beast master even more gimped without his pet, though, which I don't necessarily mind. It might be a good idea to award Revivify Beast at lvl 7.

 

What d'ya think?

 

Edit: Another things to note is that this gives the ranger more utility, by allowing him to use his actions on things outside of attacking and still have his pet attack. Unless there is a way, which I'm not seeing, in which this is unbalancing, it seems like an improvement. Beast Master was always the utility/survival choice in my mind.

#2

FFSAA

Mar 23, 2015 16:27:17

I think as long as actions are involved the druid will be mocking the ranger with the conjure animals spell and the wizard will be mocking them both with the animate dead spell.

#3

CCS

Mar 23, 2015 16:40:16
You're ideas ok.
#4

rampant

Mar 23, 2015 22:20:17

the problem with the beast master isn't just the action economy there's also the vast variability of possible animal companions colliding wiht the rather iffy advancement rules the game has for the creatures. The simple fact that a ton of them have multi-attack and/or nasty at-will riders makes it pretty near impossible to use the 'slap some prof bonuses on an Monster entry method' and expect it to work well. 

 

The big issue with the action economy is two fold. The ranger gets a multi-attack power as part of their base progression at level 5, while they try to hand out the beast at level 3. It makes sense for the beast master to get his beast then, but the simple fact is that it's too early for a free extra attack, and once level 5 hits you're stuck with that extra attack thing making it hard to justify letting the dog off the leash. 

 

Good idea nixing the extra attack at level 5. Besides that I think you may have over complicated this a bit. Level three can be ground work or something, or even an action bounded beast maybe acts on your turn, has a move action, and you may spend your bonus action to get it to make a single attack. I don't know why you think forcing the beast to wait till level 5 to scale is a good idea.

 

Also the beast needs to be hand made for the sub-class but you're probably more concerned for the action economy.

#5

abs1nth

Mar 24, 2015 4:54:34

rampant wrote:
#6

rampant

Mar 24, 2015 9:46:58

Well part of the problem is just how many different critters they allow as companions and then tried to use a single advancement template. For example the viper and the bear don't have much in common with each other or the hawk and the panther is a bit of an odd cat to. Of those 4 only the Bear and the hawk really work well with the beast master systems because the panther and the snake have DC based powers that don't scale well, and don't have the bulk and power of the bear, or the sheer mobility of the hawk. 

 

Post poning the scaling doens't really help balance anything because the scalign by nature is just keeping up, not really pulling ahead you see. The bonus action thing at third level is admitteldy a kludge but it's a kludge that leads naturally into the 5th level of being freed from that kludge.

#7

FFSAA

Mar 24, 2015 11:30:35

rampant wrote:
#8

DaomSlayer

Mar 24, 2015 11:39:06

FFSAA wrote:
#9

abs1nth

Mar 24, 2015 11:53:12

FFSAA wrote:
#10

rampant

Mar 24, 2015 16:27:19

I've made my feelings on how fracked and broken the cherry picker approach to spell casting is in 5e, as well as my feelings in regards to how many divine classes, including druids access their spells, very clear.

 

However the ranger companion is 1.) Supposed to be tougher which is why I think the scaling needs to take place before level 5 so it has the HP and HD to survive an adventuring day. 2.) When unbounded from the ranger very likely to have either multi-attack which means the ranger in essence gets 3 attacks at level 5 instead of 2, or a nasty at-will rider like prone, grab, or poison to make up for it. 3.) Not  adaily resource, or a concentration resource, whihc means the ranger (at least past level 5) is still using his spells and feats if avaliable.