The new D&D monthly survey is up - it asks about last month's Unearthed Arcana psionics rules. Additionally, WotC reports on the results of the last survey about settings, classes, and races. It turns out that the top tier settings in terms of popularity are Eberron, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape, and the Forgotten Realms, followed by Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Spelljammer. Don't expect to see any Ravenloft material any time soon! Additionally, popular character types were led by the artificer, shaman, and alchemist; while the most popular races were thri-kreen, goblin, and aasimar.
Find the new survey here. "This month, our survey looks at the mystic character class and our first draft of psionics rules for fifth edition. Your input is an invaluable tool that helps shape how we develop new material for D&D. If you love the rules, hate them, or have a specific issue you want to address, let us know."
The Unearthed Arcana article is missing the "document" when I click on it on the main site. How can I read it so that my survey responses make sense?
My main thing is wanting it to be short rest, or short rest recharge.
Second is wanting open disiplines.
But i like the concentraion aspect.
CorwynnMaelstrom wrote:
mellored wrote:
CorwynnMaelstrom wrote:
Ok, I can see a small return of points after a short rest as being a worthwhile mechanic.
mellored wrote:
Regarding what I mentioned earlier, Lethal Strike (Psionic Weapon) is even more powerful for PSI-dump. Concentrate and then during combat when you hit you get to decide to dump points to add a d10 per point. So there's not even the chance of missing your point dump attack. That's a guaranteed d10 per point. At 5th level you've got a guaranteed pool of 27d10 damage per long rest. (It may take you some time to get in the hits depending on the opponent, but the damage itself is there when you do...)
mellored wrote:
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
TenaciousJ wrote:
I wasn't saying it was imbalanced, per se, just saying what the rules allowed.
As for short rest mechanics it's basically kind of: do you follow sorc or lock with psi? More points no short or less points yes short. Either way works, I don't really care.
I am not a fan of short rests either. I wish I could edit my response.
I think there should be circle levels for the powers. This could be powers from level 1-5 or 1-9 similar to spells. This will be more important as you level up to level 20 in mystic, you to need to restrict access to the more powerful abilities. The class is already really front loaded as it is.
Pretty much my opinion as well. 5e’s core is really strong…introducing new subsystems invites risk.
Yunru wrote:
I really like the disciplines themselves. But the subclasses I wasn't super thrilled by. The points are functional, but again, I don't feel "this is so cool, I have to try it!"
Yunru wrote:
It would not be fair for me to take the survey since I have yet to use psionics. But Mr Mearls, you make a goblin that is comedic and people will play them that way. I am looking at you Golarion.
Let me fix your paragraph for you. Bolded is mine.
...Goblins would be a lot of fun to work on. Personally, I’d want them to be as interesting and compelling as shifters. My personal bias might be showing (since goblins are my favorite race), but it’s easy to make good guys kind of boring and lame. I’d love to recast the goblin a little bit, giving the race a few unique traits and a visual appearance attuned to a marauder out to kick ass...
Build it and they will come.
Miladoon wrote:
Alchemist like single class? Interesting.
Samurai could a a single class, but the version I imagine is a fighter with ki maneuvers, a cousin of crusader, warblade and swordsage from " Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords". Ninja and sohei would be also a cousin of previous ones.
* Why to kobolds and goblins PCs? Because they are a mixture of Snowhite's evil mother queen and ugly little duckling, perfect to roleplay antiheroes. In some homebrew settings the goblins are smartert, like the steampunk civilitation from Warcraft, and gnomes would be their favorite antagonists or rivals.
* Revenant PCs? It is possible, but we should be remember the characters with no-human origin, for example the half-orcs... what happens to racial tratis?
Ralif_Redhammer wrote:
LuisCarlos17f wrote:
i second the vote for a short rest Psi point recovery. The assumption is when all your short rests add up together, you should have the same recovery as a long rest, more or less, so we can assume 8-12 short rests equals all your points back. All your points is looking like about 4-133.
combinations include ability bonus 1-5, proficiency 2-6, level 1-20, and double level 2-40. 133/12 is about 11, and 133/8 is about 16.
The highest possible stat bonus is +10, therefore, Short Rest recovery should be Proficiecny Bonus + Stat modifier. To prevent people from getting all their points back at low level with a short rest, you could delay this recovery ability until about 5th or 7th level.
Lethal Strike is grotesquely overpowered. Adds way too much damage in the same exact manner as an equivalent-level Paladin's Smite. Dice need to be reduced to d4s to be fair.
alchemist and artificer seem like they could easily be the same class. you get X enchantment points to spend at any given time, including +1 weapons and explosive potions. toss a golem master in there too.
shaman could be druid, spirit pact warlock, or cleric. possibly all 3.
and samarui is a fighter. personally i would just make it a background, but there's enough demand to make a subclass for it.
mellored wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
Jared711 wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
Jared711 wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
Jared711 wrote:
I think we'd need to see more data on the demand for psi points before we have enough information to rule on this directly. Things may change dramatically at the higher levels. (I'm not opposed to toning it back, but I want such a decision to be an informed one.)
That said, if you want to nerf Lethal Strike, there's other directions such a tweak could go other than adjusting that damage die.
You could, hypothetically, keep the damage the same and simply remove the part where Psionic Weapon makes your weapon magical. Boom, the Xd10 from Lethal Strike is cut in half against a huge range of significant foes unless you find a magic weapon, and the degree that they're available is one of the many dials a DM can turn to control the power of their individual game. (Many of those foes, by the way, are fiends or undead, who are traditionally hard to harm via psionics but the natural foes for paladins. Divine Smite's radiant damage doesn't care about resistance to slashing damage, for instance (and, especially in the case of undead, often hits a unique weak point, such as disabling zombie's undead fortitude, and if he wants, the paladin has spells that treat the attack as magical anyway.).
Or you could work on an altered, non-damaging mechanic: consider "After you hit and damage a creature with your psionic weapon, you can roll 1d10 for every psi point you spend, or 2d10 per point if the attack was a critical hit. If the result, plus your Intelligence modifier, is at least equal to the creature's remaining hit points, it falls to 0 hit points." This uses Lethal Strike as a finishing move, similar to a Power Word or Sleep spell, rather than a way to pile on the damage against significant foes, which inverts the desired targets and narrows the range of when you'd want to use it. The all-or-nothing nature of it justifies the higher die size than Smite (and it might even work with d12s, for that matter, or with a partial-psi-point-refund if it fails. All of those are methods of testing.)
OR, you know, we could see how psi point maximums and psi point pools progress as levels increase. It could be that the early levels just happen to be a bit frontloaded, and a simple delay of when that psi maximum rises is enough to keep it comparable to a paladin. (I think the consensus is that the mystic is at least slightly frontloaded anyway.)
GladiusLegis wrote:
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
mellored wrote:
Mystic feels overpowered to me. It can easily outclass the Fighter or Paladin, Cleric or Wizard. I think it gives too many Psi points too quick and the Max is too high too fast. I would say it is balanced by the long rest recovery but keep in mind magic doesnt affect psionics, that gives Mystics a serious edge. If D&D separates Psi and Magic why not Divine as well? I get the flavor reasons for the separation but mechanics like these can be easily abused (seen it too many times in previous editions)
Overall I like the ideas presented but needs to be tuned down a bit.
P.S. I totally forgot to mention how much I LOVED to see targets INT as the DC for an attack!!!
I am really surprised the focus isn't more on the Warlord. I know I am not a big fan of the class, but I am definitely hearing more demand for that class or at least some kick ass archetypes for it than any other class.
GladiusLegis wrote:
" Greyhawk and Dragonlance hew fairly close to the assumptions we used in creating the fifth edition rulebooks, making them much easier to run with material from past editions."
What the heck does that mean?
Are they going to abandon the fans of those settings and leave them to re-digest old material? I wonder how many people have actualy played in those settings, let alone even used editions they were published in. Clearly, the survey could have been a bit more intelligent.
.
damage is a tricky monkey, depending on which class you think you are comparing a new class to.
here are some facts I would invite the rest of you to contest...
Best 1 shot AOE: Meteor Swarm: 40d6 to multiple targets (240 max)
Best 2 hit combo AOE: Prismatic Wall + Thunderwave 50d6 to multiple targets (300 max)
Best damage from a single hit: Assassin Sneak Attack Surprise Failed Con Save: 44d6+10 (262 max)
A really good melee attack: Bladelock storm giant belt hurl through hell, 2d6+10d10+24 (136 max)
I'm just sayin... maybe worrying about how much damage the new class does, is kinda not necessary in the grand scheme of things.
Speaking of which, question? can a quickened finger of death be tacked onto a finger of death for a double casting? if so,
wouldn't that be 14d8+60 damage?
I think the fact that these two quotes come from the same poster, in the same post, is very telling (as well as amusing):
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
* To say all samurais are the same is like to say all PCs from "Legend of Five Rings" are totally equal. Maybe the samurai has got differents schools of combat, each subclass would be a own list of ki maneuvers and poses, something like the cleric domains.
* If we don´t know the future rules about crafting we can´t say alchemist and artificier are the same class. (I have my own idea of a warlock subclass with a book of shadows who craft their own single -use magic item: potions, talismans, runes and tatoos.
How is the gameplay of artificier, a buffer(/poison nerfer) in the rearguard while the rest or PCs are fighgint in the front line?
Could the alchemist and the artificier create (and repair) constructs allies? (with rules about monster allies/pets)
lawrencehoy wrote:
Hebitsuikaza wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
shintashi wrote:
mellored wrote:
shintashi wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
"(I'm trying to leave my own bias out of this - for the record, I loathe the Forgotten Realms and Planescape.)"
S A M E
Dragonlance is the hardest to run of the generic worlds. Originally it did have some sub mechanics like the moons and xp tables for the various types of wizards. 2E lost much of the flavour over the 1E DL adventures book.
Greyhawk.Mystara/FR can mostly be used with each other. Mystara had 1 day of the year magi did not work at all and FR had things like wild magic and dead magic zones that were not to hard to ignore.
bawylie wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
mellored wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
shintashi wrote:
SleepsInTraffic wrote:
SleepsInTraffic wrote:
shintashi wrote:
I think that the new psionic stuff is nice but i don't really like the orders or the name, i mean mystic doesn't have the same feel as calling them Psions. The old prestige classes i think should be rolled into archtypes for diferent classes for example the illithid slayer for the fighter, metamind for a srocerer, cerebremancer for wizard, elocator for rangers, maybe instead of calling them orders, call them something more alogn the lines of castes or pathes would work too, Psi feats i think shoudl also be introduced much like the feats were i nthe players handbook, maybe just have a handful of them, Also psi crystals i thik should be used as both familiars for psions and as a way to enchant weapons into psi weapons. the soul knife class i haew't decided if it needs to be a path or just another archtype for rogues.
Astral contructs could be either a fun feat or apart of the shaper order or path, using psi points to and maybe skills to shape them into different versions. like say you have a profeceny in steatlh you could make a more sneaky construct, though i would say change the strength of mind ability for shapers instead of gaining advantages in a savign throw you gain the ability to build constructs or those times until you have another short or long rest.
The paths i mentioned eariler are as follows: Awakened path, Immortal's path, Innovator's path, Manipulator's path, Juggernaut's path
The Awakened and Immortals path would stay the same as their orders.
The Innovaror's path is based off the shaper discpline from 3.5, the main abilities woudl be creating either psi weapons or astral contrusts.
The Manipulator's path is based off the psychokinesis discpline from 3.5 mainly using PK for various things.
The Juggernaut's path is based off the old 3.5 psychometablism discpline, able to shurg off various effects and soak damage better.
i know my ideas are all over the place but i hope that maybe you guys might like a few of them.
GladiusLegis wrote:
SleepsInTraffic wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
The only two things on that list that reliably add damage or DPR (Fighting Style, Channel Divinity) don't even remotely bridge the gap (at Lv. 5) between 27d10 (148.5 avg.) and 14d8 (63 avg.) daily math-wise. (I don't count Find Steed there because (a) it's a spell, and (b) it requires a feat for it to be a reliable damage source.)
GladiusLegis wrote:
But the Mystic isn't expending "all of their abilities." The Mystic gets a floating saving throw proficiency. The Immortal Mystic never even has to worry about a Concentration check, ever. The Immortal Mystic also gets self-healing, and it's limitless. The discipline that lets you use Lethal Strike also gives you a +1 magic weapon, for free, which is a direct DPR boost.
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Serpine wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
SleepsInTraffic wrote:
Ghost_Gallus wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
edwin_su wrote:
mellored wrote:
edwin_su wrote:
mellored wrote:
Dark_Kain wrote:
Dark_Kain wrote:
Serpine wrote:
Ghost_Gallus wrote:
ZHDarkstar wrote:
Psionic isn´t only power points, but a different style like psionic focus, and 1v1 telepatic combat for mind-controll effects. Psions are like te D&D version of X-Men. Psionic powers don't need somatic or verbal components. A psionic lurker could infiltraty in a party, and nobody would notice when he is using his powers.
Psionic needs a different game mechanic, but with the right balance of power, and in the same time, fun gameplay, because most of players don't want to use boring class features.
ZHDarkstar wrote:
Personally, I like the Immortal subclass. As for the mystic in whole, I've got a few complaints and nitpicks, but then again, I'm opinionated.
First, let's get it out of the way: the names are kinda bland. "Mystic", itself, isn't so bad, but something like "savant" or such has a little more impact. "Order of the Awakened" just sounds unfinished—like there's a missing noun at the end. So give it a noun, like "mind" ("Order of the Awakened Mind") or something else. "Order of the Immortal" also sounds a bit underwhelming, though I'm not sure what I'd recommend to make it better.
I also don't like the Psionics and Magic rule. Unnecessary, let's just go with magic-psionics transparency to avoid unnecessary headaches.
I hate the Strength of Mind feature. I just don't like the variable saving throw thing, the class should have two static saves just like every other class.
While I like the Mind Thrust power, I think there's a missed oppurtunity to have all the old psychic attacks (mind thrust, ego whip, psychic crushe, et al.) and defences (intellect fortress, tower of iron will, etc.) be regular (non-Order & non-Discipline) powers that can be chosen at different Mystic levels. But whatever.
Each psychic disciple needs at least 3-4 non-concentration abilities that can be used by 5th level (Intellect Fortress* & Iron Durability, I'm looking at you). I assume there will be more higher-level disciple abilities, but, per level, each disciple should have a roughly equal amount of abilities to choose from. *See above complaint
The Third Eye discipline is neat, but it's kind of lacklustre at the same time. It's a good starting point, but I'd like to see some expansion that gives it some more flair.
The Psionic Weapon discipline is pretty nice. I have two beefs with its concentration power, however. First, I think that it should be the ability to choose whether to augment an existing weapon or to create a weapon from psychic energy/ectoplasm/whatever. Secondly, I think the +1 magic weapon bit is a bit much for a concentration power. Even being treated as magic weapon with no bonuses would be worthy enough (considering that it would be effective against creatures that can only be damaged by magic weapons). The +1 thing seems like it should be wrapped into the Augment Weapon power, which would then have a variable cost depending on the bonus.
I'm sure I could think of some others if I did another deep re-read of the article, but I'm lazy and so I just skimmed it to refresh my memory. 
I can't believe you are still quibbling over this minor stuff like it matters.....
My take-away from that article is that I will get to play a Goblin Alchemist in Eberron. I just want to know when I can expect those rules to arrive and in what form.
Azzy1974 wrote:
Yunru wrote:
A psion isn´t only a sorcerer with power points... the sorcerers need verbal and somatic components... something like the awaken mages from "World of Darkness" by White Wolf.
* Oh! now I have got a new doubt. Let´s imagine a player wants a character like Emma Frost from X-Men. A telepath with a power of ice-diamond body., I mean two differents powers, but they are in different "talent trees". Could the player use a second psionice class, wilder, for example, to get powers from the another "talent tree"?
* Psionic wilder could be a insterestying type... but it needs class features with fun gameplay, not only balance of power.
LuisCarlos17f wrote:
I agree with many of the reasons that one psychic class idea is problematic. I will add one other idea--why does "psychics as a class" always show up late in editions of D&D? I would suggest the answer is that it rarely gets well integrated with other classes. In 5e every class except wizard has a subclass that is good at using weapons, and every class except mystic (and that is arguable) has a subclass that can cast a spell (admittedly, sometimes you have to go through ki points or rage to do so). Weapons and magic are integrated across the system. Psychics not so much. Which leaves the mystic in the psychic ghetto.
It would have been better to make simple psychic rules, made some psychic subclasses of existing classes which would be no more complex then arcane spell thief or eldritch knight, and then create a more complicated mystic class.
Psychics should have been built like Feat chains, where you get a bundle of units every level, and then you fill out your trees to your liking.
Not quite the same thing as a pre filled out tree, where if and only if you spend all level 1-20 points do you get this one particular tree maxed out,
but more like some small trees with 2-3 components, and some larger trees with 7 or more components building up to awesome things.
this way, a person might have 2 or 3 chains really high and optimized, but also have some little devotions and a science or two here and there.
Basically, a similar principle to multiclassing, except i would recommend the cap be around 7 full level units per tree.
See, there are 20 levels, right?
And we expect something like 10-50 powers from a Psychic at level 20. Fair enough. It used to be 25 dev, 10 sci, 5 def, and 5 at, which totals 45 different "widgets" on your sheet. Round down to 40 widgets, and we get 2 widgets per level.
What I am saying is if you have a Power - chain, similar to the old Feat Chains like in the Epic Book or Supplement books,
then you might have the biggest trees right around 14 widgets.
See, 14 +14 +14 is 42 (2 more than 40 points at level 20), which divided by 2 is another way of saying 7 powers in one Discipline Feat Chain, 7 powers in another, and 6 in the last because you ran out of slots to spend (7 + 7 + 6 = 20 levels of 5e mystic/psychic). Epic Boons could be used to acquire more powers, expanding trees indefinitely.
Assuming you had about 10 different feat chains to play with, you might just dump 4 widgets in each, which divided by 2, puts you at equivalent to having 2 powers in each category, but nothing super specialized. You could even have "augment" metapsionic widgets, which can be tacked on to many different trees, to make those trees uniquely your own. This way, instead of trying to fill out the same tree everyone else has to get that one awesome power, each person's power trees could be slightly custom.
With Clairvoyance, Telepathy, and Telekinesis all having range, Duration, and Area Effect, it is easy to see how many Metapsionic units could be spent.
I don't expect this idea to be perfectly copied or implemented, but it does show how you could have cross over disciplines without losing the sense of focus.
Summarized
- give psychics 2 slots each level for powers
- turn disciplines into bundles of Power Chains and Trees, where you have prerequisite powers, stats, or min psi/levels
- let people buy up chains to suit their needs
- make some meta-psionic modifiers that permanently change the way a single tree operates
- let people decide if they want to buy a given power within a tree, a power in a NEW tree, or a metapsi modifier to an existing tree
folllowing the tree/modifier system, it is theoretically possible to start with only one power, and one metapsi modifier, like a specialist. Modifiers could keep getting dumped into that power, making a one trick pony, which is what many mutant/psychic characters are in comics.
The shaman comment really bugs me. "People want the shaman back" presumably means the shaman as written in the past, so "shoe horning the shaman into some other design space" seems silly. It's not going to quell the request for shaman.
That said . . . .
I think the "shaman" should be a background. Druids, Nature Clerics, Feylocks, Rangers, Totem Barbarians, and Oath of the Ancients Paladins kind of make for more than enough class options to provide the mechanics. (Even monks to a degree)
A druid "circle of spirits" that focuses on summoning animal spirits should be interested to create the 4th edition Pet Shaman feel could then be added. The text could state that Circles of Spirits sometimes consists solely of spirits, and the druid and the druid he was apprenticed to are the only humanoids who are part of the circle, to maintain a shaman's fluff for hermit lifestyles.
As for Ravenloft, I personally much prefer the Shadowfell reworking of Ravenloft. Wandering through the mist the heroes chance upon a spooky castle that shouldn't be there is all I want from Ravenloft. The concept as a whole distinct campaign setting started to feel like a Universal Monsters Disneyland "now you're in Frankenstein land to your left is Mummyland" which started to feel silly.