So, I'm really dissapointed in WOTC right now. The lack of new monster manuals is really sad, especially with the advent of the hardcover modules, which have just a trickle of new monsters (most of which seem to be NPCs for the module anyway)
I've been playing D&D since I was 8 and world building my own game since I was 12, so now after 30 years of real life experience, countless adventures, and innumerable campaings in my own world, I find it hard to support a move to 5th edition when it seems that idea of building your own world and adventures is not going to be supported by WOTC.
Can we please get more free form items? More support for world's built by the players who buy your products?
When all I see are new modules, most of which won't fit into the history of my world, without extensive rewriting, I don't see any reason to continue to support that publisher, no matter how much I may want to.
The full game hasn't been out a whole year yet. Calm down.
Jeebus.
Give it time. It hasn't been a year since the Monster Manual was released.
ModusPonens wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
Do you really want the product bloat until they run out of ideas and start putting out crap? (Pathfinder) The three core books are plenty. I don't know how many PF DMs I've had that won't let you use anything but core anyway. There's nothing wrong with a slower release schedule. They put out more than three big books in one year.
cassi_brazuca wrote:
Mokole1971 wrote:
Kahless wrote:
Mokole1971 wrote:
I have removed content from this thread because Baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct.
You can review the Code here: http://www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_company_about_codeofconduct
Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. A good rule of thumb is that if your post is more about the person you are responding to than the content of their post, it's probably not necessary to post.
If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the Report Comment button below the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
Mokole1971 wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Mokole1971 wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Well the world is over. I guess it is time for you to find a new game. We'll miss you. I'm sorry that after 30 years of playing and creating settings you can't pick up one of the many monster manual and bestiaries in your collection and do it yourself with the easiest D&D system ever created for doing conversions. Good thing we have a big corporation to do all conversions for us, if they would just do it for us immediately and give us a detailed schedule of everything they are working on, that way we can criticize them for not meeting deadlines. I can't believe they have not done a conversion for every product that they own the rights to in the last 40 years.
pukunui wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Let's not equivocate on terminology. My point is simply that WotC is no longer going to tell us what they're planning far in advance. They're focusing on one thing at a time. Right now it's the Rage of Demon storyline, which includes the Sword Coast Legends computer game and the accompanying Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide splatbook. They'll probably announce the first round of 2016 products closer to the end of the year. And who knows what that might include? Maybe there *will* be a Monster Manual 2 released next year. We don't know. And that's simply because WotC isn't telling us (most likely because they got burned one too many times for missing deadlines and canceling announced products during the 4e era). Not because they categorically aren't going to do one.
They're playing it safe this time around. More products would be keen, but keep in mind they're balancing a narrative that's being delivered across multiple platforms: tabletop, gaming, stories, and possibly even a movie in the not-too-distant future. It's not necessarily ideal as far as the "give me more!" screeches in the back of my thinky-think-brain are concerned, but still preferable to the supplement overload of older product lines.
pukunui wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Mokole1971 wrote:
The_Jester wrote:
I've been a DM for 25 years now, since I was a kid with my elementary friends first discovering the game. While I'm always a bit suspicious of one's first posts on a forum being to criticize the product, I also see your point given other editions have innundated us with product, however ill conceived, unbalanced, and poorly written. However, if you've been gaming this long, you'll know the designers have given you more than enough to convert your monsters from original product using the MM as inspiration for abilities, balance, and so on if you need. If one is creating entire game worlds, you'll have the time and imagination to make this happen, and an awesomely detailed DMG to assist.
MechaPilot wrote:
pukunui wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Ok...wow, lots of stuff while I was out running my game for the week. 
So to clarify a few points:
1: I'm only talking about one thing, the fact I would really like to see some sign of production of a second Monster manual. I'm not advocating it has to be out tomorrow, nor am I advocating for a glut of splat books and poorly written material. We've all seen too much of that in the past I'm sure.
2: I know about the tools in the DMG and such, and I also know, with my long experience, that I am asking for the thing I am the worst at covering on my own. I am a horrible monster maker, and I always have been. Maybe if there was a digital tool, that would help or what have you. I don't know what it is, but in my experience, I've never had much luck with creating my monsters from scratch.
3: People talked about the modules as helpful for those limited on time, well, in my experience, having premade monsters is the biggest time saver for me, so its the same thing. We buy what we need to enjoy the hobby and get the most out of it.
Touc wrote:
Mokole1971 wrote:
pukunui wrote:
Kahless wrote:
Which monsters from previous editions would you like to see in a Monster Manual II?
(My group is mostly in to humanoids, so I don't remember us fighting many monsters that aren't already available)
Imaculata wrote:
Mokole1971 wrote:
cassi_brazuca wrote:
We all want new monsters, and I’m sure there will be another Monster Manual eventually. But heck, back in the 1e days, it was six years between the release of the MM1 and the MM2.
Mokole1971 wrote:
Let me think of a way to say this.
Elitist jackwagons like to brag and bully new players and DMs alike with their traditionalist Bullcrap. They are abusive and cruel with their Worship of whatever has been designated CORE.
In roleplaying, very few systems have most of the good stuff in the core.
By my standards, Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adventures were part of the Core of 1st edition, but it could easily be stated that only the first monstrous manual, the DMG, and the Player's handbook were core.
What does that mean? READ people, look into it.
Here's the repercussions from 1st edition 'core' theory:
- psionics is now core
- barbarian class is not core
- illusionist class is core
- samurai is not core
- knight/cavailier is not core
- Rolling % dice to autokill 16th level monsters with assassins is core
- chromatic orb is not core
- Aasmodeus is core
- Solar is not core
Do you guys get my point? That's an example of what happens when you try to limit "Core" too much. You end up with a bunch of rules you may or may not like that everyone must use, but then a large chunk of rules you wish were core get left out.
5th edition was supposed to be the game system that fixed that. More or less, everything was optional. But then the Core elitism started to trickle in one product after the next. Wizards needs to realize if they don't define something as Core, many people will just as soon rule it no more valid than HomeBrew. I'm sure there's some people playing Adventure League somewhere with a similar fear. A justified fear at that. While D&D isn't pathfinder, it has organized playing circles like they do, and believe me, watching DMs bicker and debate about whether "the League" or "RAW" or whatever will allow some particular rule, whether they need to take it to a vote next week or month or email some "official" isn't how D&D should be played, and if we are stuck playing D&D that way, then Wizards needs to be on the Ball with defining more Core products than they have.
When skills & powers came out, I watched it soar at some tables and crash & burn at others. To be honest, Spells & Magic was the best of that four part set (S&P, S&M, Combat & Tactics, and DM High Level Campaigning) but because the whole block was considered non-canon non-core rules, any core rule only types banned it.
This caused many games to never happen. It caused huge wedges between groups. People wouldn't show up at some tables because the rules were too strict.
Now don't get me wrong, Rules bloat can be a problem. You can have 3d6 core rules per year and get swamped and then end up with totally wonky characters. But that's the opposite end of the extreme.
We really need to have more books designated as Core. At least 3 monster manuals should be Core books. A 4 year old version of 5th edition should probably have 8-12 Core books, and 3 of them should be monster books.
Here's a structure i like: 3 monster books, 2 DM books(regular & high level), a western player book, an eastern player book, and some kind of options/builders kit player/dm book.
You guys might have your own "ideal core kit". I'd like to hear them.
halvgrim wrote:
Ralif_Redhammer wrote:
CCS wrote:
I kinda get the impression that the main gripe is that the older business model of low priced, 11x17 folder paper modules meant to be dropped anywhere has been replaced with a model of high prices book modules of several related adventures that rely on being in a certain place or one similar, making them harder to drop in a cutom world. Plus they tend to be somewhat "rail shooters" where players follow the trail from adventure to adventure advancing a plot line.
Not much we can do about it but make our own adventures. There are a few free ones I found on line that came from a contest or something using the free 5e sample rules that got published. It shouldn't be that hard to modify older 3x D&D modules or Pathfinder ones though.
The edition hasn't been out long enough for me to exhaust the current MM, so I don't see the reason for panic.
That said, and I stated this some months ago in another 'omg release moar books' thread: I do consider monster books one of the most bang-for-the-buck splats that Wizards can possibly release and I hope to see them eventually. Adventure paths are not useful to people who have their own campaigns, and player splats really tend to be little more than cash for power-creep (and hard to incorporate mid-game regardless). But monster books are an almost invaluable DM convenience resource, and add variety that can be immediately inserted into almost any game.
We likely will see an MM2, just not sure when. They did add a bunch of pages to the fist MM because they wanted to fit more monsters into it for us. They also gave good indications there were other monsters that weren't added in because of space. Some of those have likely been added in the pulbished adventures. They also meant to have a conversion guide out by now but the person handling it had jury duty so it's been delays but is apparently back in "the works" currently. So if you don't convert on your own using existing MM entries and the DMG monster creation guide, you can convert ones from older editions once the guide comes out. Some people have already converted a handful of the Spelljammer stuff in another thread.
I just shipped all my 2e and older material out to my current state of residence so I can start converting stuff (monsters, magic items, etc.) over to 5e for use in the custom campaign I'm working on. I'm also using yWriter for my campaign. It's a free tool made for authors but the way it works actually lends itself well for a campaign setting as well.
MechaPilot wrote:
Ralif_Redhammer wrote:
Mokole1971 wrote:
I like the once a year MM as much as the next DM, but do they have the staff to do that anymore?
The AP's have been good for boss monsters and low level monsters (more cultists than you can shake a stick at), but have been a little light in the mid level monster department. So, if they do make a new MM, I hope it is has more of a mid level focus. Also, I would like to not have to wait for a hypothetical Planescape AP or an even more hypothetical evil party AP to get some more good and/or neutral outsiders
At one point a binder with tabs was the monster manual and they published several inserts of monsters. I guess that doesn't fly in today's glossy art book sales environment.
shintashi wrote:
I do recall buying every single monster manual in 2nd edition and adding them to my binder... Plus an NPC folio, city and country sites, and bam I could handle most any sandbox campaign without using all my free time (which I don't have a lot of) to handwrite it all. So understand the desire for more books that let us build.
My suggestion would be to find a dedicated group of forum junkies (enworld?) who are skilled at converting AD&D monsters and see if they'd engage in some creative enterprise with you. Won't necessarily be core, but could give you some more creatures to work with.
arnwolf666 wrote:
Mokole1971 wrote:
WorBlade wrote:
crimfan07 wrote:
shintashi wrote:
Ralif_Redhammer wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Mechatarrasque wrote:
Mechatarrasque wrote:
joeburgos wrote:
I’ve actually gotten great use out of the cultists by just reskinning them. The razorblasts have become fanatic assassins. Hellenrae became the leader of a rival adventuring band. At first I was a bit disappointed, I'll admit, but realized I could get a lot of use out of the collection of human and humanoid opponents.
crimfan07 wrote:
Mokole1971 wrote:
shintashi wrote:
crimfan07 wrote:
About the products catalogue....
It looks like they aren't even showing planned releases 4 months ahead of schedule. They have massively shortened the window of time they announce their products before release.
Granted, I think they have released quite a bit of content within the first year-- the issue is that they have released it all in the forms of modules and adventurers guides for those modules so it is hard to get a good feel for just how many new monsters, spells, backgrounds, feats, races and such have been released-- and it can be somewhat of a pain to find exactly the thing you want.
Azzy1974 wrote:
The Solar used to be closer to what you guys would consider CR 26+. It was worth 225,000 experience points . Process that for a moment. The Tarrasque was worth 107,000 experience points. Now it's a pathetic little joke waiting to be NC-17'd by half the high level monsters in the Manual. Why does this keep happening? do you guys not even realize the Solar was a D&D cross between an Archangel and some kind of extradimensional Stellar Ascended God being with dominion over a Solar System? What happened to the wish Granting Genies and Leprachauns? Speaking of which?
limited wish
permanency
enchant an item
gone. WTF? Instead we get some ambiguous mess about recipes in the DMG that players aren't allowed to read.
What should be in MM2? Gem Dragons (psionic). Ruby Dragons (non psionic). Adamantium Dragons, Steel Dragons, Yellow Dragons, Deep Dragons, Weredragons (the were-beast that's cooler than the others), Bahamut. Greater Djinn. Time Dimensionals.
There's a lot of options, I didn't expect so many pages dedicated to Drow and Mold men.
- When you go the Arabian Route, you get the Greater Djinn, the Greater elementals, and the Sha'ir class.
- When you go the Darksun Route, you get the Dragon Kings, magma golems, and the advanced class-races.
- Go in the direction of Netheril and you get Phaerim and spells 10-12.
- Go in the direction of Chromancy and you get those Time Dimensionals, but you can probably also Address Tales of the Lance.
D&D has some weird stuff where you can have Expansions of existing core rules and monsters with themes, and expansions that don't require a particular campaign setting. The pattern though, Adventure-Campaign Setting-Monster Books, is not a good pattern. Once it's been played through, it might get used once more and then collects dust for years. Adventure books aren't a good idea.
When people look at adventure books, the most useful thing in them is new spells, classes, items, or monsters. Those are the core tools DMs use for making their own campaign settings. The rest is fluff or 'learning the game/bored too lazy to make adventure".
Ergo, Monsters and Items for the DM, and Classes & Spells for the Players. Make a product that both DM's and players can use repeatedly, and you have yourself a Gem. Really beautiful rules have something that isn't one of these four but both DMs and players still want to use. Maybe its belief points or action points, or the introduction of psionics, or crafting rules, or empire building. As long as its open access for both types it rocks.
CR ranges need to be fixed
Monsters should come in a steady stream of higher and higher level, at least by AD&D standards. 5e characters are weaker at higher levels, so it isn't necessary to make everything CR 21+, but one of the wasted notions of older editions was the idea that we needed armies of low level noob monsters worth <100xp. No. We don't. We never really did. As soon as you run into a few of them, your characters level away from it. In video games, people don't rush back to the noob zones to fight bunnies and kittens unless they are farming some particular item or ingredient or trying to get "500,000 deaths" trophies. People will spent almost all of their career as not low level. Think about it. The math proves I'm correct. So making monster books with 8 parts noob, 6 parts low level, 4 parts mid level, 2 parts high level and 1 part epic level doesn't make sense. Most of your time will be spent mid to high level. The additional noob parts of a Monster Manual should not be any larger than the Epic portions, and if they ever introduce levels above 20, then even the Epic portions should outnumber the noob portions.
shintashi wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Ralif_Redhammer wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
crimfan07 wrote:
crimfan07 wrote: