With the new errata, sorcerer now have no good subclass.
Wild mage is way to chaotic to be consider good. Might be fun for some player, but those of us who like to play a hero, doing heroic stuff, casting fireball on my own party when I cast mage armor in the morning do not fit what I'm looking for in my hero archetype.
Dragon sorcerer was kinda weak, but elemental affinity was the redeaming feature, making it a decent subclass, but with the nerf to it, now dragon sorcerer is a guy becoming a half dragon, without the stats boost, without the breath weapon and with limited dragon power uses.
Where is my spellcaster, casting spell archetype for my sorcerer? Where is my true arcana conduit that my sorcerer is. Where is my arcana incarnate archetype/subclass.
Can we please receive a pure arcana sub class? something that will make the sorcerer a good arcane caster instead of being the wizard for the poor?
I always loved the sorcerer, the concept that the magic power are your's. They are not learn, they are not dependant on a higher being to grant you those power, they are your power. Just as much that you cannot take the punching power of the monk away from him, you cannot take the magical power of the sorcerer away from him. If the wizard loose his spellbook, if the cleric god stop listening to him, if the warlock patron stop feeding him, it's like if the fighter loose it's sword, they become useless. But you cannot take the magical power of the sorcerer away, like you cannot take the monk power away from him.
At the moment, we got 2 subclass for the sorcerer:
Wild mage: a sorcerer who cannot control it's power
Dragon Mage: a sorcerer who's power took control over him and transform him into a shadow of a dragon
So what is missing? a sorcerer who control his own power? so here come the Arcana Incarnate Sorcerer. The sorcerer who is not afraid of his power, the sorcerer who decided to gain control and mastery of his inner power
If you need help, the arcana bloodline from Pathfinder, they did something that is interesting.
I imagine a sorcerer subclass looking something like this:
Arcana incarnate:
Flavor: In your blood flow raw magical power originating from some ancient source, could be dragon, demon, magical experimentation, fey, elemental, cosmic, goddly etc... but you don't care about the origin, all that you care about it's that it's YOUR power and YOU will harvest it YOUR way. Where dragonic sorcere allow it's power to transform them into a dragon, where wild mage are unable to control there power at all, you will become the master of your arcane origin you will become arcana Incarnate.
- Ribbon: Ignore material component costing less then 1gp. You are magic incarnate, you don't need bat guano to create a fireball, you are the fireball.
- Add some known spell, similar to the domain spell from the cleric or the paladin oaths. and put in that spell list usefull spell, don't waste this ability by putting stupid crappy spell that no one never uses. Here a list of iconic spell that scream MAGIC, spell that for me represent raw magical power, compare to transform magical energy like with fireball transforming raw arcane into a specific element (fire):
level 1: magic missile, shield
level 2: Invisibility, Misty step
level 3: Dispel Magic, Counterspell
level 4: greater invisibility, Dimension door
level 5: Creation, Animate Object
This will also allow sorcerer to become more diverse. Since I don't have to use my few spell known to learn the mandatory spell like magic missile, I got more freedom to learn utility or niche spell like Jump, and my friend can learn Disguise self instead of jump and the other sorcerer can go and learn feather fall instead. Every sorcerer will be able to choose different utility, without becoming "gimp" since the basic "mandatory" spell are already taken.
- Add a short rest based recovery system allowing the sorcerer to recover power on a short rest. He his magic incarnate, magical power are inately part of him. Something like when you regain HP using Hit DIce, you regain sorcerer point equal to half*** the regained HP (***the ratio half can be tweaked to reach an appropriate balance) If you would regain more sorcerer point then your maximum, you can convert those extra point into creating new spell slot instead of loosing them.
- The core sorcerer arcane mastery is represented throught it's metamagic, so arcana incarnate should be extra good at metamagic and increase their mastery over it evenmore then other sorcerers. For example they could gain a 5th metamagic and/or reduce the cost of core metamagic by 1 (minimum cost of 0, so yes subtle metamagic would cost 0 to use) and/or be able to apply 2 metamagic (other hten empowere) to a single spell.
- He could have a list of specialized metamagic that only him can learn for example:
Merge metamagic: Cost 1 sorcerer point per spell level involve in the spell. you can cast 2 spell at the same time, consuming both spell slot. The added spell level of both spell cannot be higher then the higher spell slot you can use. the spell is casted at the slowest casting time of both spell and both spell need teh same target. So for example a sorcerer who want to cast misty step and invisibility at the same time. He need to target himself with invisibility. he cannot upcast it to add an other target, since misty step cannot target anyone else then self. He will need to have 2 2nd level spell slot available for casting both spell. He will need to be minimum level 7 (able to cast spell level 4). Using hte metamagic will cost 4 sorcere point (2+2) and the spell will use a action to cast (since invisibility is the slowest spell and require an action). The sorcerer will teleport and become invisible at the same time, so observer will see him disapear both not reapear.
Merge metamagic will also allow to cast 2 concentration spell. By merging hold person and witch bolt (both on the same target) for example, the sorcerer will maintain concentration on the merge spell keeping both effect up. If he stop concentrating both effect fails. If he fail his concentration check both spell end.
If the sorcerer use it to cast one spell with concentration and one spell without concentration (invisibility and mage armor for example) both spell are threated individually, so mage armor last 8 hours, invisibility last 1 hours. If the sorcerer take damage and fail his concentration, only invisibility his lost.
You cannot merge 2 spell with different target/area of effect, so you cannot merge lightning bolt and fireball, or magic missile and ice storm. If the range of both spell is different, then both spell used the shorter range.
If both spell require an action to activate, then the action activate only one of the 2 effect (so witch bolt and telekenisis isn't a great choice)
If the wizard is the arcana master, who learn to control the magical energy. I would liek to see the sorcerer as being arcana incarnate, harvesting magical energy and being it's conduit.
I want a sorcerer to feel unique, different, but not weaker then the wizard. A sorcerer that radiate with arcane power, not one that explose because he's unable to control it or one that become a 1/3 dragon. I'm not asking to remove the 2 sub-class (so if you love your wild mage, gratz to you, this will ot affect you at all) I am just asking for a 3rd official sub class that I'll be able to play in Adventure League Legal that will represent the player who want a sorcerer who take control of his powers.
Yeah, the current sorcerer literally does nothing for me.
Doesn't inspire me in any way, and I don't see myself playing one.
This is a pretty OP subclass (in fact the idea of grossly OP subclass comes to mind).
Still, there are good ideas in here. Sorcerer subclass gets features at 1st, 6th, 14th, and 18th level.
1st level: add automatically known spells to your list (don't count towards ones you know). Your list is fine.
6th level: get an extra SP per every 5 sorcerer levels (round down).
14th level: get an extra metamagic option.
18th level: lower the SP cost by 1 for all metamagic that costs more than 1 SP to use.
You get an extra arcane sorcerer without any of the things that should get the subclass tossed by a DM (I can't speak for AL). It is still OP, but only borderline.
I didn't like the way sorcerer was just "dragon mage... use dragon born or dragon blooded or gtfo". Sorcerer is racist against non dragons. That's messed up. People said Paladin was racist back in the day for being only playable by humans. Now if you aren't Dragon, you aren't cool. That's totally racist against all the other races. I play an elf. I'm insulted.
The most important question to consider when creating
your sorcerer is the origin of your power. As a starting
character, you'll choose an origin that ties to a draconic
bloodline or the influence of wild magic,
"With the new errata, sorcerer now have no good subclass."
Storm Sorceror from the Unearthed Arcana.
DemoMonkey wrote:
QwertyAzerty
In what format are you expecting to see an "official" option?
I am frustrated with the 5e sorcerer because it uses the exact same spells as the wizard. It actually doesn't get any unique spells (even the ranger and paladin have unique spells!). It's basically a sub-class of the wizard, which is extremely dissapointing and anti-thematic. "You can harness magic through your direct connection to the raw arcane energy swirling around you… except you cast the same spells as the bookish wizard who has spent years studying magic like a science." Yawn.
Of the Sorcerer's spell list, 95% is Wizard spells. The only seven that aren't are Enhance Ability, Daylight, Water Walk, Dominate Beast, Insect Plague, Fire Storm, and Earthquake. And all seven of those are also Druid spells.
mrpopstar wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/unearthed-arcana-waterborne-adventures
DizzyWood wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
HoboJustice wrote:
First of all to the OP:
In order to be official for adventure league they would have to put in the player companion for that season, so we have a while to wait before that happen.
Then I understand what the Op is saying. Wild mage being too chaotic, dragon sorcerer being restricted to a single element and the sorcerer spell list doesn't offer much choice.
Even if the 2 sub-class presented in unearthed arcane would be adventure League Legal I do not believe they are what the Op is looking for, the favored of soul basically transform you into a charisma base cleric, which can be nice for some people, but from my understand the OP might be looking for a sorcerer class master of the arcane, who is great at casting spells, basically what you expect from a full spell caster. and I don't see favored of soul filling this aspect.
Stormborn, is an improved reskin dragon sorcerer limited to lightning and thunder damage and present mostly the same problem that a lightning dragon sorcerer would encounter. Lack of spell choice to activate his ability. Personally I've never been a big fan of thunder spell, since I like to have a sneaky sorcerer, and casting thunderwave every fight alarmign everyone within 300ft is kind of bad for sneaky combat.
I will agree that both those sub-class do present an improvement on those from the PHB (by giving the sorcerer some well needed extra spell known (even if like explain by the OP the spell list shoul dbe more the "cookie cutter" choice so people are free to select what flavor/utility spell they want to choose, instead of forcing the "flavorfull spell selection" then forcing the player to take the cooki cutter so most sorcerer will have a very similar spell list., And neither of those do what the OP is presenting: a Sorcerer made of raw pure unaltered magic. They are all hellbent on transforming the sorcerer into what it's origin was, instead of giving the sorcerer control over his destiny and making the player choose what his spell will become (this sentence sound great in my head but for some reason I feel it doesn't fit well on the page, I hope you can still get my meaning)
To : Mechatarrasque
Actually the current sorcerer can already have 2 concentration spells. like explain by the OP, if you twin cast a concentration spell you get effectively 2 concentration spell (the same spell on 2 targets) so I doubt it would be out of the question and that it will never be seen, but merging seem a little bit powerfull but it's an interesting concept and migfht be worth digging around to try to balance it.
Why because they have 4 subclass, (one being some kind of multiclass cleric) it shoudl mean that all idea have been exhausted? CLeric already got 9 subclass? and people are still asking for more. Wizard already got 8 subclass? and I keep seeing people proposing subclass right and left. The sorcerer got 2 official sub class and 2 unearthed arcana playtest, can we please let people with idea propose the idea. Like he said if you don't like it you can keep playing a dragon or a favored of souls, having a 5th (and hopefully 3rd official) sub class could be very interesting, specially if we get a full spellcasting focused sub class, intead of a dragon transforming one and a wild wacky one.
I have no clue why you are using the wizard becoming a fighter as a comparative tool. The OP is comparing 2 full spellcaster, one who study magic all hiw life, the other who is born with it, and he want the one who is born with it to be as good as the one who study it, he want to explore what happen if the prodigy sorcerer born with magic in him, if he train hard and learn to harnest it if he can hope to become at least as good as the guy who was born without knowing anythign about magic and had to study it to learn it. is that really that bad?
Are you his DM? No? then you most be one of the lead designer from WotC? if so, then I'm sorry and I want to congratulate you and humbly ask you if possible to work on a new sub class for the sorcerer a sub class that would be dedicated to a sorcerer who want to harness his magical power. If you are not a designer, nor the DM of the OP, then how can you "give him" those ability. The best you can do it's propose, and like I mention earlier, the OP idea are overpowered, but you are reaelly stingy and your bonuses would make this sub-class an other nail in the sorcerer coffin.
I don't know where the perfect balance is, but I would say somewhere between you too there is a sweet spot, and if WotC can find it, they migth be able to create a very interesting sorcerer, with great magical power and talent, but still being different then a wizard, they could both be great spell caster but still be different.
I do like the idea of giving the sorcerer some original spell (Every one else got original spell that only them can cast) What kind of original spell does the sorcerer should have. The bard got speech, the paladin got smites and auras, the ranger got strikes and arrows, the druid can nature related stuff, the warlock got creepy doomy stuff, the wizard got great wizard signature spells. What does the sorcerer have different from the others? he has magic power. Every one magical power they receive from an outside source (god, patron, study etc...) but the sorcerer uniqueness is that his power are his own.
QwertyAzerty wrote:
IMO, the sorc will always be a 3.5e attempt to appease those who hated vancian magic. I've never expected much from that class, but I certainly wouldn't attempt to re-define it in terms of the "powerz" it gets.
Greenstone.Walker wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
I don't know why all the hate for wild sorcerers.
You get nearly on-tap advantage.
You can can add 1d4 or subtract to whatever, after you see the roll.
You rarely get random effects, and those are usually benifical, most are netrual, and rarely bad. Exspecially at level 14.
Spell bombardment is meh.
Yes, you can potentially fireball yourself, but the chance of that happening is basicly the same as getting crit twice in a row for max damage.
I always thought there was merit to the idea that wizardry and sorcery were merely two different approaches to the same magic.
shintashi wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
mellored wrote:
The Sorcerer and Warlock seem forced to me (and both have the least legacy), all the others classes jive with me, but those two, just feel contrived.
Brock_Landers wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
Wizards get As by studying hard, Sorcerers get As without studying, just winging it, and Warlocks get As by bribing the teacher for a cheatsheet.
These are three very different approaches to arcane magic. I don't see how you'd consider them all Wizards. The worst thing about 4e, and it was even worse in earlier editions, was the rampant Wizard subclasses that had no business being Wizards – Sha'ir and Witch should have been Warlock subclasses in 4e and Bladesinger should have been an essentials version of the Swordmage. Instead, all three were Wizard subclasses, because they wanted access to Wizard-type spells. That issue isn't a problem in 5e, it was a symptom of 4e's major complication when it came to powers (having to rewrite various powers for different class lists with new names because you can't share them between classes). By having universal spells again, yes, Sorcerer and Warlock and Wizard share a bunch of spells (especially Sorcerer and Wizard), but they use them quite a bit differently due to the FRAMING around their spells (Warlock invocations and pact boons, Sorcerer metamagic, Wizard specialty school bonuses). These feels make the classes quite a bit different. Not to mention that the Charisma vs Intelligence thing is a big deal.
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
Marandahir wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Brings new meaning to wooden ships and iron men.
LordCorwin wrote:
Yes I believe they should be able to float.
QwertyAzerty wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
I have the answer to this problem WOTC needs to print in the future a NEW "Magic of Faerun" book like with what they did back in 3 Edtion. This is where they can make sorcerer only spell and the same for the other classes also could be where they bring back sword Mage here and set up other new subclass for all arcane classes!
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
shintashi wrote:
shintashi wrote:
shintashi wrote: