Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 LuisCarlos17f May 24, 2015 7:05:12	Days ago I have readen about a real born blind man, the Canadian Brian Borowski, who use a sense of echolocalitation. Another name is Daniel Kish.    Then I wonder... if real people can use ecoholocalitation like bats, dolphins and oilbirds, why not D&D humanoids? For example duergars, grimloncks and darklings..    And what about then with monsters with gaze attack? For example the medusa. My suggestion is a module to change the special powers of the monster with the right change of the XP reward, and then it could be replaced with softer or hardest version. for example the medusa's petryfing gaze with a gaze attack with cold+poison damage, and extra petrification effect with it is zero hit poitns.   * Another matter is... what if spellcasters can use shaptersifter powers to become animals with super-senses? For example a druid could use smell sense to search truffle or another expensive grass, flower or vegetable in the woods. Animal senses are important for stealth cheks. In the current Ukranian war the cats are used like sentinels' help because they are silenter than dogs to detect intruders. Even a simple camp with horses resting can be very different.
#2 Tempest_Stormwind May 24, 2015 7:23:44	Blindsight.
#3 LuisCarlos17f May 24, 2015 8:37:51	It is different. Blindsight is only for a near radio, and echolocalitation can sense far things (that is important for ranged weapons). And there are some limits. For example echolocalitation could be used to discover an enemy with a big shield, but not if the arm has got a sword or an axe, or if
#4 CCS May 24, 2015 9:45:34	I think this module is as easy as me simply saying: This is how duergars "see". At least at ranges beyond x. No change to xp. As for other races learning it? A feat. With no stat boost. Gives the equivalent of darkvision.
#5 LuisCarlos17f May 24, 2015 10:45:56	Darkvision is different.  With echolocalitation you don´t light at all, with echoloc you know the goblin is going to attack you, but you don´t know the knive is in his right or the lelft hand.
#6 Tempest_Stormwind May 24, 2015 12:11:28	Right, that's why it is blindsight. Look at your example echolocation animals' stats in the monster manual - they have blindsight.
#7 Jenks May 24, 2015 12:52:37	I will agree that there's a bit of overlap with Blindsight, as echolocation is mostly a close to intermediate sensory technique. But it DOES generally go longer than blindsight as per the MM.   As well, echolocation wouldn't say "goblin", it would say someting small and thin, coming at me fast. Logic then can tell you it's a goblin because you are in a cave, but echolocation won't tell you that.
#8 rampant May 24, 2015 13:17:49	BAsically the 5e designers have decided that echolocation is represented by blindsight in 5e. If you want to create a method for PCs to gain this ability I would suggest a feat that requires perception.   If you want a more simulationist approach to echolocation you'll have to design the ability from scratch.   I think you're vastly overcomplicating this with talk of modules and EXP adjustments.
(Reply to #5) CCS	LuisCarlos17f wrote:
#10 Cutlass May 24, 2015 17:16:52	The bottom line is that in a fantasy game the GM can pretty much rule what he wants to. In the real world I don't see an echolocation sense being able to track supersonic bullets that well. Also in the real world I had a friend who was blind from birth. I met him when he was in his thirties. He had his apartment set up with several dozen speakers in various locations constantly playing his favorite music. He commented that because he knew where all the speakers were he could navigate around and know that things had been moved based on the "sound shadows" that the various objects made. So I would say that could be taken as a form of "echolocation" and it was something he had definitely learned how to do. The main caveats being that this only worked for a fixed location (his apartment) so it didn't seem to be something that he could rely on when moving outside his apartment (he used me for a guide). Also, he was obviously operating using sounds that everybody could hear as opposed to using a higher frequency sound with a shorter wavelength that might have provided for "finer" distinctions.