Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dragonfather Sep 07, 2014 16:49:24	To begin with, I would like to say that I've really been liking 5E (homebrew, I'll get to that). The game has been able to simplify while bringing back the good parts of the previous editions. The end of the post is a lot of negative about adventurers league, so please don't take it that I hate 5E, it's way better than 4E and has brought me back into wanting to play DnD. For background I went to school for game development (and got hired into the industry afterwards). So I like to delude myself into thinking I have some inkling of an idea about good design. Sometimes. Maybe. On Tuesdays.   -----------------------------   Plus. Each class has several flavors to choose from and the main progression stat (proficiency) is tied to character level, not class level, allowing more freeform multiclassing.   Minus. Except Stat bumps, which are mysteriously now tied to class level unlike previous editions. All classes get bumps at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19, while fighter and rogue get 1 or two more. A Thaumaturge type character could be level 6 (3/3) with no stat bump, while getting two in a row the next two levels. Very inconsistent.   Plus. Races have lots of unique flavorful bonuses that make them interesting.   Minus. Except it doesn't matter because 75% of everyone I play with takes variant human for the feat. It's too powerful an option to pass up for anyone who even has a slight twinge of powergaminess in them.   Plus. Spellcasting is a bit more normalized and easier to understand for most people now. It's easy to determine your slots and spell available.   Minus. The Wizard is still ridiculously powerful compared to every other spellcaster, even more so at higher levels. The utility with the spontaneous casting and ability to cast rituals unprepared allows for some extreme versatility. The level 18 wizard ability is probably the most powerful class ability in the game.   Minus. (again) Concentration is too limiting (only ONE spell) This is especially hard on the Ranger, who has several decent utilities, all which require concentration that screws over his hunters mark. Some of the spells that require concentration probably shouldn't, or at least allow people to concentrate on two spells at some point.   Plus. Hooray no arcane spell failure chance anymore! Bring out the battlemages!   Minus. It's now hard not to want heavy armor and a shield. Level 1 fighter + almost any squishy class multiclass makes for a durable hard to hit squishy class. I've seen almost half the players I come across take one level of a class that gives heavy armor and shields for the sake of heavy armor (and heavy armor mastery).   Plus. Adventurers League looks like it could be awesome for the ability to play with random people. But there are a lot of big minuses.   Minus. (this is a big minus) But I hate how it has been executed. Strict control of XP and what levels can play with what (hard cutoff points for tiers is dumb). No DM Control over basic loot and magic items. (You have a barbarian, druid, monk and rogue? Don't care, here is a useless +1 longsword). This causes people to literally dump magic items because they don't want them counted against them for future discoveries. Probably the stupidest idea any designer ever came up with. Minus. Lifestyle. This just seems ridiculously dumb right now. There is no point to this mechanic and right now it's a useless gold sink with zero mechanical benefits for the expenditure.   Minus. You can't buy magic items. What is the point of all this gold being dropped (other than for dumb lifestyle expenses) if all you can do with it is buy 50 potions of healing (which for some idiotic reason, you can't craft in adventurers league because making 2d4+2 potions for half off would be broken overpowered??)   Minus. Magic items are supposed to be rare but there is a lot of inconsistency with the drop rate between thetwo published adventures so far. Phandelver gives around 9-10 magic items in 4 levels. I think Hoard gives... 8? in 9 levels. Huge disparity.   Minus. No adjusting for party size. The optimal party size is the minimum (3) for the best magic item find rate. If you have 7 players there will be level 8 players that haven't finished hoard yet from the start that still don't have any (permanent) magic items.   Minus. Self reporting. This almost negates the other minuses because who cares? I want to pop over to a table with level 8 characters? I'll just fabricate a character that was in a party of three, and has the exact loadout of potions and 4-5 magic items that I theoretically could have obtained because NO ONE ever checks that stuff. I know at least 3 or 4 people who would not bat an eye doing this because it is more fun for them to do so and it wouldn't be proveable that they didn't do it.
#2 Chakravant Sep 07, 2014 19:13:37	I'd take a Warlock or a Sorcerer over a Wizard in 5E.  Elemental Affinity is a nice damage boost, combined with Quickening Scorching Ray or Twinning it (pending errata).  Eldritch Blast is hands down the best cantrip in the game, doing spell level damage, multiple hits, etc.  Boosted with Hex, and you can easily push damage to the Wizard's level (remember, EB can be cast as an action and a bonus action, as it is a cantrip) and beyond. I'm not seeing how the Wizard beats a Fire Sorc or Warlock in power.  They may have slightly more utility, but I'll take the utility of metamagic points over a few extra spells any day of the week.
#3 Rhenny Sep 07, 2014 19:38:52	Interestingly, 50% to 60% (depending on who is playing in my group) play human variant.     I kind of like that that racial configuration pulls in more players since in most fantasy worlds, humans are the dominant (or at least most prominent) race.     If a DM wants that to change, I agree that the human variant is too popular, but in Forgotten Realms, it makes sense.
#4 dragonfather Sep 07, 2014 20:14:21	Eldritch Blast cannot be cast with a bonus action. And yes, I agree that cantrip-wise, it can be the most powerful due to multiple applications of your cha mod. However Wizards (Evocation wizards anyways, argueably the most popular) can make their save cantrips do half damage on a save, and at 14 they can maximize all of them. Easily  40ish damage, or 20 on a save. even without maximize cheese the average for poison spray would be 24-25 damage. Warlocks can get 1d10+5 three attacks by that time, but against a decently tough enemy, one of those is going to miss on average. you are going to wind up with about the same average damage output. except a wizard can cast a huge array of different spells on any given day, and can change them up every day. Also in terms of spellcasters, it's best not to compare cantrip damage because after level 5 or so, any decent spellcaster is going to have multiple tricks up their sleeves each combat that will fill up their actions.
#5 Chakravant Sep 07, 2014 21:20:17	dragonfather wrote:
#6 Saelorn Sep 07, 2014 21:55:56	YMMV, of course. Most of those negatives are positives in my mind.
#7 dragonfather Sep 07, 2014 22:50:04	If you quicken then yes, but normally it's an action to cast and you can't cast it twice. And again, we are talking about trying to do a gimmick that takes 2 sorcery points each round instead of casting a spell that does like 10d8+5 damage to everything and call it a day.
#8 Chakravant Sep 07, 2014 23:06:01	Twin Spell is only 1 Sorcery point, and as long as you only target one enemy, works with EB/SR and other spells, provided they only target one enemy.  A Sorcerer has as many Sorcery points as they have Sorcerer levels.  That adds up to a lot of combat trivialization real quick.  Take a level x Sorcerer, where x = the number of combats in a day.  The Sorcerer gets a Twin Spell off every combat.  Using that in a combat opener style will trivialize the encounter, making clean up easy. 10d8+5 at what level?  A Wizard can do better than that at 20th.
#9 Tony_Vargas Sep 08, 2014 22:32:28	dragonfather wrote:
#10 dragonfather Sep 07, 2014 23:37:55	That was just pulled out of my butt. A wizard/sorcerer could probably do that around level 14 or so. It's also fair to point out that in terms of sustained raw damage potential, the wizard is probably not the best. But you don't need to nuke everything to win. There are so many utility spells that can trivialize encounters without ever needing to cast a damaging spell. That is the major advantage of the wizard. If we are talking about level 20, a wizard could just maximize a meteor for 245 damage to everything and have the party call him when they are finished searching through the exploded remains of the boss littered throughout a quarter mile radius. Or he could plane shift the boss to the negative energy plane where it's life force is sucked out of it in a matter of minutes. Stuff like that.
#11 Chakravant Sep 07, 2014 23:46:35	This is just out of my otra boca as well.  I'm not a Charop master by any means. Plane Shift and Meteor Swarm both allow the enemy to save vs. the effect (MS for half damage, PS for any effect).  I'm not all that keen on allowing my enemies saves, which is why I stick to attacking their AC.
#12 dragonfather Sep 07, 2014 23:48:45	I call BS on not needing magic items and being "viable". If you look at some of them, it's very obvious that your characters can become almost twice as effective or hard to hit with the right gear. A level 8 sorcerer with no magic items? Maybe 16 dex, 18 cha? 16 AC. Same sorcerer with the black dragon mask and bracers of defense? Possible immunity to acid damage, 23 AC, water breathing, legendary resistance 1/day, ect. Level 8 2 handed great weapon fighter with 18 str? 2d6+4 damage twice. Same fighter with the legendary sword? 4d6+6 twice. Yes you could probably contribute without them, but only one guy is getting the really good stuff, and if it's not you, you are going to be outshined REALLY fast at the table. Not nearly as fun as everyone getting controlled drops of magic items to pick from to make it fair for everyone.
#13 dragonfather Sep 07, 2014 23:51:37	Statistically speaking enemies tend to have terrible saves except maybe one or two, while their AC can get quite high, and spell attacks currently have no magic items that boost to-hit.
#14 Chakravant Sep 07, 2014 23:54:45	dragonfather wrote:
#15 Zardnaar Sep 08, 2014 0:44:55	dragonfather wrote:
(Reply to #8) 1eejit	Chakravant wrote:
#17 Chakravant Sep 08, 2014 2:00:44	1eejit wrote:
(Reply to #17) 1eejit	Chakravant wrote:
#19 souldoubt Sep 08, 2014 14:32:23	dragonfather wrote:
(Reply to #9) DavidArgall	Tony_Vargas wrote:
#21 Chakravant Sep 08, 2014 11:36:34	1eejit wrote:
#22 spelley Sep 08, 2014 11:57:05	DavidArgall wrote:
#23 Tony_Vargas Sep 08, 2014 22:36:59	dragonfather wrote:
(Reply to #22) Chaosmancer	spelley wrote:
#25 souldoubt Sep 09, 2014 6:49:03	Tony_Vargas wrote:
#26 dragonfather Sep 09, 2014 9:20:26	That's not really how it works with DnDAL though (Which is why I mentioned it under the Adventureers league minuses). yes, the Dm can control magic items in a homebrew, but in AL, the dm can't take away your magic items when you walk up to the table, similarly, he can't add or adjust magic items to help equalize the rest of the party.
#27 souldoubt Sep 09, 2014 10:25:08	dragonfather wrote:
(Reply to #25) DavidArgall	souldoubt wrote:
#29 TiaNadiezja Sep 09, 2014 12:24:32	DavidArgall wrote:
#30 pauln6 Sep 09, 2014 12:53:06	The magic items they've showcased so far have been fairly inept.  They should try to avoid items that give bonuses beyond +1.  The black dragon mask for example (which I have not seen) could grant half your Cha modifier so +1 or +2, which does not stack with other magical bonuses plus have other magical benefits akin to the minor properties table.  They need to focus on flavourful properties.  Gauntlets of Ogre power and headband of intellect make me shudder.  Just dreadful design.
#31 dragonfather Sep 09, 2014 19:35:34	I agree that in homebrew there is no issue, DMs have full control and can even make up magic items they want on the fly. My main point was with the adventurers league rules. The magic item rules for obtaining them in AL is broken. It very specifically states that if all players agree to someone getting an item, that person gets it, otherwise the player with the lowest total number of magic items gets it. I can already predict there will be people walking into a convention where they cheesed everything with their friends by running through whole modules multiple times so that they each have characters with tons of magic items. Plus they would have readily available characters with no magic items they can use to troll people and get magic items automatically at convention tables.   Magic item disbursement in AL needs to be more even and standardized, with appropriate rules to ensure all characters regardless of concept or build can get something useful. Things like "At the end of this episode, the characters loot the hoard and gain 200gp each and can pick a +1 weapon or magic focus of their choice as their reward." Or "After finishing the quest, super important dude #82 offers each character a reward. The players can choose between +1 magic armor of their choice, a ring of protection, 2 level 3 or lower scrolls of their choice (useful for wizards and ritual casters), or a bag of holding."   Would make sense to implement. After major milestones magic items can be distributed in a controlled manner with options for every character. This ensures that you don't have players who feel shafted by the items given to the party and promises a baseline of progression of magical power that can be taken into consideration when balancing.
#32 Tony_Vargas Sep 09, 2014 21:05:29	I remember, after White Plume Mountain, everyone and his henchman had Blackrazor ( Whelm came in a distant second.)  Expect to see a lot of that sort of thing in AL.  Should be amusing.
#33 seti Sep 09, 2014 22:16:51	Yet another reason I'm staying away from organized play ('adventurer's league'; I guess they're calling it now).   Here's how they should do it, though. The only way to make it fair and balanced so strangers can play together without jealousy, anger, etc. is just say NO MAGIC ITEMS. Period. Didn't they have really strict rules for MtG and D&D minis 'competitions'? I mean, without them, the players with huge bank accounts would always win over the broke players....   Besides, D&D without old friends, fun, house rules, homebrew items/settings/classes/races, and generally cool stuff for everyone is not good right fun to me.
#34 FallingIcicle Sep 10, 2014 0:12:23	dragonfather wrote:
#35 Zardnaar Sep 10, 2014 0:16:27	seti wrote:
#36 arnwolf666 Sep 10, 2014 1:06:28	I do notice a trend as we go up in levels that the advantage/disadvantage system boils down to no advantage or disadvantage for anyone.
(Reply to #32) arnwolf666	Tony_Vargas wrote:
(Reply to #35) seti	Zardnaar wrote:
#39 Zardnaar Sep 10, 2014 4:58:04	seti wrote: