Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Delazar78 Nov 05, 2014 6:54:11	I'm a big fan of "less is more" in general, and I'm not a big fan of the spellcasting Ranger and Paladin.   So I was toying with an idea: how about creating two new archetypes for the Fighter (Ranger and Paladin)? Then I though, hey I could even do a Barbarian archetype!   Then I thought this is something that could be applied to all the other "basic" classes.   Bard could be an archetype* of Rogue (just slap some music on the Arcane Trickster), and Druid could be a Cleric of Nature with some polymorphing.   Warlock and Sorcerer could be folded into Wizard with a line of two of explanatory text.   Not so sure about Monk...   What do you think?   * not sure if they're called "archetype for the other classes, but hopefully you know what I mean.
#2 IxidorRS Nov 05, 2014 7:25:23	Monk and Druid strike me as the one's least capable of being shoe-horned into another archetype. Ranger could be as easily an archetype of Druid as of Fighter. I think if this plan is to work, archetypes need to be selected at level 1 for all classes, rather than level 2 or 3 for some. It would mean delaying some features a few classes get at level 1, probably.   It's definitely doable.   Another approach is to do something similar to Class Warfare for Dungeon World.
#3 mellored Nov 05, 2014 7:37:05	Why 4?  Why not 2?   Roll rogue into fighter, and cleric into wizard.
#4 draegn Nov 05, 2014 8:34:18	^ Three works for us: mundanes, arcane users, divine supplicants.
#5 mellored Nov 05, 2014 8:49:07	draegn wrote:
#6 draegn Nov 05, 2014 9:17:32	@Mellored   In our game arcane users have to follow rules when spell casting, summoning, enchanting etc... Divine supplicants may or may not have their petitions answered and if answered their deity/supernatural being may bend the rules to suit whatever agenda there may be.    Examples of diverences: Wizard casts a fireball, it is of a certain size and causes a certain amount of damage, everyone caught inside the fireball burns. Priest pleas for the enemies of the faith to be struck down, (depending upon how pious the priest is) the god of war might send his holy wrath of fire to purge the battlefield whereby every foe of his faith is struck in a fiery holocaust which leaves the faithful unscatched.    Wizard makes an item that has 3 uses before it becomes expired and mundane again. Priest makes the same item, however, the deity grants it 3 uses per day.     We view divine magic as being more powerful than arcane magic.
#7 OrionStyles Nov 05, 2014 10:32:05	How to organize it.   Martial Support (or whatever you want to call a sitational skill based class list) Magic "Divine" (granted power, and there has got to be a better term for this)   -Each category should have several lists for "major" and "minor" class feature categories. -Each class would have 1 major and 2 minor sets of class features.   eg: Ranger class would have 1 Major martial class feature, 1 minor support class feature, and 1 minor magic class feature. eg: A Rogue would have 1 Major Support class feature, a minor support class feature, and a minor martial class feature.   As for the magic types; "Magic" vs "Divine" magic, the difference is whether the power is self-drawn or granted.   Self drawn "magic" magic comes from Material, Transitive and Inner Planes because these planes are close enough to draw your own power from. "Divine" magic comes from the outer planes and far realm. Drawing power from these places is not possible without help.   So, a warlock 1x Major "Divine" Class Feature (Full Spell list drawn from a chaos or evil outer plane, or far realm) 1x Minor "Magic" class feature (Eldritch Blast; arcane attack power self-drawn from one of the inner plane power sources) and 1x Minor Martial Class feature (light armor / medium attack rating).   And there you have it, a warlock gets "help" from an outer plane power for his "spells" (no making a pact with Orcus does not allow access to the Elysian spell list!), yet has some natural arcane power of her own (magic blasts) and has not exactly been tied to a desk when considering their skills applicable to an adventuring life. (It was hard growing up in the Addam's family, which is where I learned to use armor and a crossbow)   Clearly there is alot of work to do to actually fill out the categories... but the various D&D classes should be able to help with breaking all the details down.   Edit: Forgot to clearly add an implication to this; Druid magic would be the same "magic" as magic users as it would be self-drawn from the applicable Prime / Elemental / Transitive spell list categories. (I did think like this when spelling out the Ranger features)
#8 mellored Nov 05, 2014 10:32:01	draegn wrote:
#9 cowleymen Nov 05, 2014 12:00:39	OrionStyles wrote:
#10 Shasarak Nov 05, 2014 13:17:58	mellored wrote:
#11 Timborama Nov 05, 2014 13:24:01	What 3.x Unearthed Arcana did was 3 "Classes": Warrior, Skill, Caster (or was it Mage?)   Warrior gave things like Barbarian, Fighter, even some rogue powers (since multiclassing was pretty easy, thanks to there only being 3 classes). Skill had, well, skill-based talents and focuses Caster allowed the user to pick Arcane or Divine (or both, probably, if you lost "arcane" caster levels to level up "Divine").   So yeah, you could mix and match powers and abilities from these three to essentially create your own hodgepodge class, or replicate an existing one (Palading and Ranger would be Warrior+Caster)
#12 Luis_Carlos Nov 05, 2014 13:53:58	I don´t want only four classes, it would be too boring for me. I want my PCs to be different.    But I like the idea of variant classes. What are the variant classes? A class with a different list of class features.   For example:   Fighter -> Swashbuckler. Heavy and medium armour are lost, but it has other things.   Fighter -> AD&D Dark Sun gladiator. Maybe the first varian class.    Jester -> Magic music is lot but she can use mimic to cast special magic.   Wizard -> Archivist (Heroes of horror).  Divine spellcaster, but without armour.   Psion -> Wilder   Monk -> Dragonfire adept (Dragon Magic 3.5).   Shaman -> Dragon shaman.   Paladin -> Hexblade (arcane spellcaster + warrior).    When I say a alternative list of class features... I don´t mean only 10 levles (it would be a prestige class or parangon path) but class features for the (almost) 20 levels, from the first level.    Some archetypes could be a list of optional blocks of talent trees.
#13 SterlingRat Nov 05, 2014 14:09:50	There are a lot of classless systems out there and using one in a D&D setting isn't too tough. I always kinda like the slow progression of they WOD systems, where you don't gain a level with standard benefits; you gain experience points and spend them to increase certain attributes. So rather than increasing your level from 2 to 3 and getting hit dice and proficiency and some class feature and maybe a spell, you could spend 500 exp to get +1 to hit, 250 exp to get +1 hit die, 100 exp to learn a 1st level spell...   Of course, that's a ton of book keeping and strategizing, and I would hate to be the developer in charge of figuring out how much exp it costs to raise your stats - Levels are easier and faster and much more D&D, if you will excuse the use of "D&D" as an adjective.
#14 cowleymen Nov 05, 2014 14:16:24	I feel you there. Modular systems are fun for making what ever you want, but its a huge amount of book keeping for every one involved. I would lower the points of everything, so that top tier, (level 15-20 equivalints) cost 200-300 points.
#15 sleypy Nov 05, 2014 14:21:01	Can removing players options work? Of course anything can work with enough effort, but it seems like a better question to be asking your players.
(Reply to #24) Diffan	Shasarak wrote:
#43 MechaPilot Nov 06, 2014 12:45:59	smartboyathome wrote:
(Reply to #43) Diffan	MechaPilot wrote:
#45 Shasarak Nov 06, 2014 15:17:47	MechaPilot wrote:
#46 MechaPilot Nov 06, 2014 18:36:32	Shasarak wrote:
#47 arnwolf666 Nov 06, 2014 18:47:16	Do it.  You got an idea you like.  Make your Ranger archetype.  Make your Paladin Archetype.  Druid Archetype for cleric, do it.  Everyone should tweak and build the game for the type of settings they want.  Be creative and go for it.
#48 Shasarak Nov 06, 2014 19:03:13	MechaPilot wrote:
#49 seti Nov 06, 2014 20:28:40	The hybrid rules in PHB 3 were pretty awesome. It allowed you to mix together 2 classes very well. Obviously, it worked better if you picked to STR classes, or two DEX classes, but you could make it work with any combination, especially if you weren't concerned with that +5 and could live with +3 or +4 on your attacks/damage.    The only downside was that you did lose out on some things, ie: you could only do sneak attack with rogue powers. So, if you made a wizard/rogue hybrid, you could not add sneak attack damage to magic missile. But, as a hybrid rogue/wizard, you gained both rogue and wizard AEDU powers evenly as you leveled.   I'd check them out, if you still can find PHB 3 anywhere for cheap, and want to keep up a 4e library.
#50 MechaPilot Nov 06, 2014 20:41:54	seti wrote:
#51 MechaPilot Nov 06, 2014 20:46:24	While we're on the subject of previous editions' MC rules, I was rather disappointed to not see MC options in the DMG table of contents.  I was really hoping that we would get 2e-style MCing in the DMG.
#52 viper5 Nov 06, 2014 21:39:26	MechaPilot wrote:
#53 sleypy Nov 07, 2014 4:12:53	Rastapopoulos wrote: