option growth within classes/subclases. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 edwin_su Oct 20, 2014 3:41:54	It seems some classes/subclasses seem very open to growth within them without having to create new subclasses. Barbarian Totem Warior : you could add more animals. Fighter Battle Master : add more manuvers. Monk way of the 4 elements : add Elemental disciplines. Warlock : add Eldritch Invocations So are there people who looked into creating more of these options.
#2 Diffan Oct 20, 2014 4:21:53	I'd like to see alternative class features make a return. In 3e there were a lot of things that could be substituted for standard that altered or changed the base mechanics of the class. In 5e, this can continue. For example I have a strong desire to make a 4e style Avenger, but unfortunately that can't happen because armor is nearly required for most melee participants. So, a fun alternate feature would be for paladins to lose proficiency with all armor and shields and instead get Armor of Faith, which sets your AC at 12 + Dexterity and Charisma modifier. This way, I can play an unarmored holy warrior without having to jump through a bunch of BS loops to get the concept i want.
#3 Mechatarrasque Oct 21, 2014 8:54:31	I would like to see a stealth-based tiger totem barbarian (sneak then rage); maybe when I get done drooling over the monster manual..... There was a new warlock invocation thread, but I can't remember where it is.
#4 rampant Oct 21, 2014 12:58:47	Hard to really imagine ragiing while being stealthy, maybe some sort of ambush focus?
#5 Mechatarrasque Oct 21, 2014 13:35:15	rampant wrote:
#6 rampant Oct 21, 2014 13:56:31	In the case of the barbarian be careful about what abilities you give at which level, notice each of the totems gives abilities with fairly similar combat use at each level don't create a situation wher eyou can nab each of a totem's best combat tricks because you put changed the patter established by the first 3.
#7 mellored Oct 21, 2014 15:18:00	Panther: When your raging, your unarmed strike deal 1d6 slashing damage, as a light finess weapon. You can gain the benifits of rage while wielding these weapons. Panther: You gain advantage on stealth checks. If you spend your action to hide, your rage does not end that turn. Panther: When you hit a creature with advantage while raging, you knock them prone.
#8 seti Oct 21, 2014 15:18:11	I'd love to see 2e-style class soft covers and/or 4e style power source splat books. I'm sure something like that will happen, as D&D has always been about lots of 'optional' books. Besides, there's tons of archetypes players expect/want that don't officially exist yet. Non-religious healers, for example. The thousands of people out there who started with 4e probably really want that; as well as more AEDU-style (short rest/long rest class abilities) non-caster class options. Because as everyone hopefully has noticed by now, 5e casters are AEDU classes. I'd love to see a CON-based class, an INT-bsaed artificer, as well as an arcane archer ranger build. Obviously (to anyone who has bothered to read my posts here), I'd also like to see psionics ASAP. I'm betting they'll lazy-out on psionics, however. Psions will use the standard PHB spell list, w/o material components, and use the DMG-promised alternative 'spell point' system. Done.
(Reply to #7) rampant	mellored wrote:
#10 mellored Oct 22, 2014 7:10:51	rampant wrote:
#11 rampant Oct 22, 2014 11:14:57	Where are you getting the rage damage bonus twice? Dual wielding? Any barb can do that without skipping out on bear's damage reduction or eagle's mobility, or whatever the wolf does. THe simple fact is that dealing decent unarmed combat damage, and getitng to use dex melee weapons with rage simply isn't all that powerful because a barb using strength and a pair of hand axes is just as good damage wise, and he did it without giving up the option to resist tons of damage types while raging, or to dart around like a humming bird on speed.
#12 mellored Oct 22, 2014 11:40:08	THe simple fact is that dealing decent unarmed combat damage, and getitng to use dex melee weapons with rage simply isn't all that powerful because a barb using strength and a pair of hand axes is just as good damage wise, and he did it without giving up the option to resist tons of damage types while raging, or to dart around like a humming bird on speed.
#13 rampant Oct 22, 2014 13:37:16	I know you don't normally get rage damage with finesse weapons. What I'm saying is that it's just not impressive. Being able to turn neon pink isn't normal for a human but that doesn't make it impressive, or useful. Even if you could somehow dual wield it the simple fact is your proposed unarmed strike ability is basically on par with a pair of hand axes. Which a barbarian could use to get the same results as far as damage without giving up the option to absorb insane amounts of abuse or move like a demented jackrabbit. I'm not saying you ca't have these things but you need to add to it to keep it on par with the other options of the same level.
#14 Mechatarrasque Oct 22, 2014 13:46:25	Lot of good ideas for the tiger/janguar/panther/leopard totem barbarian. As I recall, there are three abilities per totem, so I might go with: 1) Advantage on stealth checks 2) Knock prone when hit a creature while raging and don't have to stop raging while hiding 3) Get a pounce like ability for the third (maybe cast jump on yourself). That would make a distinctive barbarian that would be good at stealth, but not overshadow the rogue or the shadow monk. That will help manage the conflicting desires of my group (they want stealth, but one player wants to play a strength-based character but wouldn't mind stealth too). The player likes ERB, so a Tarzan who can jump like John Carter should appeal. Thanks everyone.
#15 rampant Oct 22, 2014 13:52:25	again your 1st ability seems underwhelming compared to the exisitng options, and your middle power seems a bit stronger than the other middle powers, you have to keep the powers in line with the other options at that level because a totem barbarian doens't have to follow one chain up the ladder it can mix and match if it desires and if the abilities of the various tracks aren't synched up to a certain degree you'll make the mixers OP by allowing them to pick the strongest power at each level.
#16 Jenks Oct 22, 2014 15:35:17	I love how mello just threw something out there as an example, and someone immediately pounced on it. GG internet.
#17 mellored Oct 22, 2014 17:03:47	Jenks wrote:
#18 rampant Oct 22, 2014 17:07:18	He suggested something, I suggested it needed a modification and presented the reason why. Isn't that how this works?
#19 mellored Oct 22, 2014 17:45:06	rampant wrote:
#20 rampant Oct 22, 2014 19:32:02	The catch is you're not giving them 3 extra AC, you're making it slightly easier to invest in dex, which might eventually translate into more AC vs. Say someone who went bear or eagle at that tier, but you'r enot actually giving +3 ac. How about pather gives give rage compatibility with finesse weapons, and something else that's a bit less powerful than bear wolf or eagle.
#21 mellored Oct 23, 2014 5:25:32	How about pather gives give rage compatibility with finesse weapons, and something else that's a bit less powerful than bear wolf or eagle.
#22 Mechatarrasque Oct 23, 2014 8:39:40	Looking at the barbarian last night, I see the first totem ability is a defensive abiltiy related to rage. Actually the eagle one fits pretty well what we would like, so I am going to suggest the player use that one and won't come up with an alternative unless he doesn't like it. The second ability is a utility one, so advantage on stealth and not ending rage while you hide would fit--the spirit of the tiger makes you good at ambushing your enemies. The third ability is the most mystical, so automatically being under the jump spell when you rage would fit. The wolverine totem would be interesting. The middle ability could be gaining a burrow speed.
#23 rampant Oct 23, 2014 8:45:55	That's not really enough, also even if it was it's boring compared to what the others do. How about: When raging Attacks against foes that grant advantage to your attack rolls, or enemies adjacent to you allies deal bonus damage equal to your dex mod or something.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

edwin_su

Oct 20, 2014 3:41:54

It seems some classes/subclasses seem very open to growth within them without having to create new subclasses.

Barbarian Totem Warior : you could add more animals.

Fighter Battle Master : add more manuvers.

Monk way of the 4 elements : add Elemental disciplines.

Warlock : add Eldritch Invocations

So are there people who looked into creating more of these options.

Diffan

Oct 20, 2014 4:21:53

I'd like to see alternative class features make a return. In 3e there were a lot of things that could be substituted for standard that altered or changed the base mechanics of the class. In 5e, this can continue. For example I have a strong desire to make a 4e style Avenger, but unfortunately that can't happen because armor is nearly required for most melee participants. So, a fun alternate feature would be for paladins to lose proficiency with all armor and shields and instead get Armor of Faith, which sets your AC at 12 + Dexterity and Charisma modifier. This way, I can play an unarmored holy warrior without having to jump through a bunch of BS loops to get the concept i want.

Mechatarrasque

Oct 21, 2014 8:54:31

I would like to see a stealth-based tiger totem barbarian (sneak then rage); maybe when I get done drooling over the monster manual..... There was a new warlock invocation thread, but I can't remember where it is.

rampant

Oct 21, 2014 12:58:47

Hard to really imagine ragiing while being stealthy, maybe some sort of ambush focus?

Mechatarrasque

Oct 21, 2014 13:35:15

rampant wrote:

rampant

Oct 21, 2014 13:56:31

In the case of the barbarian be careful about what abilities you give at which level, notice each of the totems gives abilities with fairly similar combat use at each level don't create a situation wher eyou can nab each of a totem's best combat tricks because you put changed the patter established by the first 3.

mellored

Oct 21, 2014 15:18:00

Panther: When your raging, your unarmed strike deal 1d6 slashing damage, as a light finess weapon. You can gain the benifits of rage while wielding these weapons.

Panther: You gain advantage on stealth checks. If you spend your action to hide, your rage does not end that turn.

Panther: When you hit a creature with advantage while raging, you knock them prone.

seti

Oct 21, 2014 15:18:11

I'd love to see 2e-style class soft covers and/or 4e style power source splat books.

I'm sure something like that will happen, as D&D has always been about lots of 'optional' books.

Besides, there's tons of archetypes players expect/want that don't officially exist yet. Non-religious healers, for example. The thousands of people out there who started with 4e probably really want that; as well as more AEDU-style (short rest/long rest class abilities) non-caster class options. Because as everyone hopefully has noticed by now, 5e casters are AEDU classes.

I'd love to see a CON-based class, an INT-bsaed artificer, as well as an arcane archer ranger build. Obviously (to anyone who has bothered to read my posts here), I'd also like to see psionics ASAP. I'm betting they'll lazy-out on psionics, however. Psions will use the standard PHB spell list, w/o material components, and use the DMG-promised alternative 'spell point' system. Done.

(Reply to #7)

rampant

mellored wrote:

#10

mellored

Oct 22, 2014 7:10:51

rampant wrote:

#11

rampant

Oct 22, 2014 11:14:57

Where are you getting the rage damage bonus twice? Dual wielding? Any barb can do that without skipping out on bear's damage reduction or eagle's mobility, or whatever the wolf does.

THe simple fact is that dealing decent unarmed combat damage, and getitng to use dex melee weapons with rage simply isn't all that powerful because a barb using strength and a pair of hand axes is just as good damage wise, and he did it without giving up the option to resist tons of damage types while raging, or to dart around like a humming bird on speed.

#12

mellored

Oct 22, 2014 11:40:08

THe simple fact is that dealing decent unarmed combat damage, and getitng to use dex melee weapons with rage simply isn't all that powerful because a barb using strength and a pair of hand axes is just as good damage wise, and he did it without giving up the option to resist tons of damage types while raging, or to dart around like a humming bird on speed.

#13

rampant

Oct 22, 2014 13:37:16

I know you don't normally get rage damage with finesse weapons. What I'm saying is that it's just not impressive. Being able to turn neon pink isn't normal for a human but that doesn't make it impressive, or useful. Even if you could somehow dual wield it the simple fact is your proposed unarmed strike ability is basically on par with a pair of hand axes. Which a barbarian could use to get the same results as far as damage without giving up the option to absorb insane amounts of abuse or move like a demented jackrabbit.

I'm not saying you ca't have these things but you need to add to it to keep it on par with the other options of the same level.

#14

Mechatarrasque

Oct 22, 2014 13:46:25

Lot of good ideas for the tiger/janguar/panther/leopard totem barbarian. As I recall, there are three abilities per totem, so I might go with:

1) Advantage on stealth checks

2) Knock prone when hit a creature while raging and don't have to stop raging while hiding

3) Get a pounce like ability for the third (maybe cast jump on yourself).

That would make a distinctive barbarian that would be good at stealth, but not overshadow the rogue or the shadow monk. That will help manage the conflicting desires of my group (they want stealth, but one player wants to play a strength-based character but wouldn't mind stealth too). The player likes ERB, so a Tarzan who can jump like John Carter should appeal.

Thanks everyone.

#15

rampant

Oct 22, 2014 13:52:25

again your 1st ability seems underwhelming compared to the exisitng options, and your middle power seems a bit stronger than the other middle powers, you have to keep the powers in line with the other options at that level because a totem barbarian doens't have to follow one chain up the ladder it can mix and match if it desires and if the abilities of the various tracks aren't synched up to a certain degree you'll make the mixers OP by allowing them to pick the strongest power at each level.

#16

Jenks

Oct 22, 2014 15:35:17

I love how mello just threw something out there as an example, and someone immediately pounced on it. GG internet.

#17

mellored

Oct 22, 2014 17:03:47

Jenks wrote:

#18

rampant

Oct 22, 2014 17:07:18

He suggested something, I suggested it needed a modification and presented the reason why.

Isn't that how this works?

#19

mellored

Oct 22, 2014 17:45:06

rampant wrote:

#20

rampant

Oct 22, 2014 19:32:02

The catch is you're not giving them 3 extra AC, you're making it slightly easier to invest in dex, which might eventually translate into more AC vs. Say someone who went bear or eagle at that tier, but you'r enot actually giving +3 ac.

How about pather gives give rage compatibility with finesse weapons, and something else that's a bit less powerful than bear wolf or eagle.

#21

mellored

Oct 23, 2014 5:25:32

How about pather gives give rage compatibility with finesse weapons, and something else that's a bit less powerful than bear wolf or eagle.

#22

Mechatarrasque

Oct 23, 2014 8:39:40

Looking at the barbarian last night, I see the first totem ability is a defensive abiltiy related to rage. Actually the eagle one fits pretty well what we would like, so I am going to suggest the player use that one and won't come up with an alternative unless he doesn't like it. The second ability is a utility one, so advantage on stealth and not ending rage while you hide would fit--the spirit of the tiger makes you good at ambushing your enemies. The third ability is the most mystical, so automatically being under the jump spell when you rage would fit.

The wolverine totem would be interesting. The middle ability could be gaining a burrow speed.

#23

rampant

Oct 23, 2014 8:45:55

That's not really enough, also even if it was it's boring compared to what the others do.

How about: When raging Attacks against foes that grant advantage to your attack rolls, or enemies adjacent to you allies deal bonus damage equal to your dex mod or something.