Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zardnaar Oct 21, 2014 2:34:09	Ok in several other threads I may not have been dipomatic about how I phrased some things but here is what my PCs are doing in party number 1 and what we are doing in party number 2. Not we have also played a few one shot type games and have tried a lot of things out in test games going back to D&D basic before the players hand book landed.    Party 1 The Original Party (no fatalities)   The players threw this party togather about 5 seconds after we got the PHB. We had extra players turn up and grew from 3 to 6 members. All the PCs are stat array although there may be 1-2 point buy  hiding in there. None were rolled.   Party 1 Level 8 Half Elf Lore Bard (no feats 20 Cha) Human (variant) Polearm FIghter (battle master,18 stength, sentinel+healer feat) War Cleric (variant human, heavy armor master, great weapon style, 18 strength) Gnome Diviner (18 int ??? feat maybe 20 intelligence IDK) Wood Elf Ranger (hunter 18 dex, sharpshoot feat) Human (variant)Tempest Cleric warcaster and heavy armor master feat, 18 wisdom     Party Number 2 (the survivors, we made a bad party and got punished playing LMoP), Level 7   Half Orc Fighter (18 strength heavy armor master, great weapon style) Human Moon Druid (sentinel+resilient feat) Variant Human Light Cleric (warcaster feat 18 wisdom) Variant Human Rogue (healer feat, 18 dex) Gnome Transmuter   Average Amount of short rests. 1-2   Number of 0 short rests several. Number of 3 short rest. Happened once 4+ short rests 0.   Magic items are mostly +1 variety mostly from LMoP, polearm fighter has a +1 intelligent halberd that heals, party number 2 fighter has a +1 greataxe that deals +1d6 frost damge and grants frost resistance (DM special).   Party number one is an odd one. The clerics do not heal as a general rule except in emergencies so the everyone more or less heals themselves and the fighter uses his halberd as it can cast 2 cure spells per day (1d8+2) and 1/week cast a 3d8+2 cure spell in addition to second wind and HD based healing.   Party 2 has better co-ordination with most of my level 1 and 2 spell slots being used on bless. Both parties have debuffs available for emergencies and the level 8 party has just picked up the healer feat.Druid, Rogue and Fighter are the default buff targets for bless, the wizard gets added if I use a level 2 spell slot.    One thing we have noticed in 5E is the shortage of in combat healing relative to the amount of damage monsters do. There is copious amounts of short rest healing available (HD based healing, second wind, healer feat, life cleric ability) along with overnight 100% healing. Casting a cure spell for 1d8+3 or 1d8+4 is kind of a miserable deal even for a life cleric. Prayer of Healing in a level 2 or 3 slot gets used for out of combat healing or maybe a healing word if it is an emergency.   Now how we pace ourselves is kind of weird. As I said I have enough bless spells using my low level slots to get through 7 encounters and after that I have 2 3rd level slots and 1 4th level spell to use. These are generally used for what I call encounter defining spells. The other spell casters do something similar.   Both parties also have focused resources on damage mitigation namely the healer feat and heavy armor master feat along with abilities such as cutting words, the light clerics flare ability, the diviners forsee ability or even the bards vicious mockery spell. If the Druid has any left over spell slots they generlly get turned into good berries via the spell to be used the next day. Usually adds around 30-90hit points available the next day as extra healing.   Party number 1 has 17 level 3 and 4 spell slots available to it. Party 2 has 10 spell slots of level. Level 1 and 2 spell slots are generall used for utility and spike damage the level 3 spell slots are paced out about 2 per encounter I suppose, sometimes 0 get used sometimes 4 may get used.    Now the encounter defining spells generally do a lot of damage or have a large impact on the encounter. The ones that get used a lot are.   Sleet Storm cuts movement in half, blocks sight used to negate NPC spell casters to some extent.   Call Lightning (usually maximised) 30 damge per round save for half. Doesn't work in dungeons though.   Spiritual Guardians. Often used when Call Lightning can't get the job done.   Haste. Haste the Ranger or great weapon fighter.   Fireball 8 or 9d6 damage usually often used with a double tap combo via Cleric+wizard or Bard+wizard for 16d6+ fun.   Hypnotism more or less incapcitates a large % of the targets, survivers can "wake" them but it takes an action and the target misses thier turn.   Flaming Sphere sometimes used in a level 4 spell slot, 4d6 damage via "ramming" and recurring 4d6 damage and sentinel feat keeps the target pinned.   Plant Growth speed is cut to 1/4.   Radiant Dawn 2d10+7 damage 2/short rest radiant damage. Poor mans fireball in a 30'radius that excludes the party. Not a spell but it is a great ability.   Buff Spells Being Used   Faerie FIre (bard rarely light cleric) Bless (clerics) copious amount of times. Hunters Quarry (ranger) 1d8+1d6+10+ 1d8 giant slayer= pain. Stoneskin (Druid) Barkskin (Druid) Enhance Ability (used for shove action and enhancing initiative) Haste (also falls under encounter defining) Guidiance spammed a lot usually set to next dexterity or wisdom check.   Utility spells Various animal ones,  Dispel magic Enhance ability Detect Magic (ritual) Identify (ritual) etc etc   Spells generally not being used   Most level 1 and 2 damage dealing spells, fly (flunked concentration roll+height=pain) Most healing spells unless its an emergency,  Most concentration spells if you lack the warcaster/resilient feat.   The basic combo I suppose is bless and/or faerie fire being used to in conjunction with great weapon master and sharpshooter feats. Most of the time for the spell casters it is buff and spam cantrips and let the martials go to work and drop 1 encounter defining spell an encounter.   At low levels LMoP being the prime example sleep was used a lot to take out the goblin lair as at the time party 2 had a sorcerer/warlorck multiclass in addiiton to the wizard.    Well there it is. If anything both parties have probably focused on damge mitigation more than damage dealing but it lets us more or less sleep walk our way through medium type encounters and it takes around 5-6 hard and deadly encounters to scratch the paint. Party 1 was more or less organic play what you want, party 2 was a bit more planned out in terms of how various abilities interacted usally with lessons learned from party 1 and one shot adventures. For example we tested the healer feat in a one shot game and the thief player thought it would be cute with the bonus use an object action. Its really good BTW better than healing word most of the time.
#2 mellored Oct 21, 2014 6:39:09	Your party and players seem decently optimize and working together well as a team, so they should be trounching alot of combats.   And yes, in combat healing is low.  I think that's a good thing.
#3 Timborama Oct 21, 2014 8:21:38	Optimized party is optimized.   DMs should adjust accordingly, or not at all, according to the entire table's wishes, desires, or what seems fun.   There are plenty of things I can throw at them to have fun if they want a challenge. And I don't mean "Um, you just killed a bunch of goblins. HERE'S LITERALLY MORE OF THE SAME!" approach either!
#4 Zardnaar Oct 21, 2014 10:52:36	Timborama wrote:
(Reply to #4) Timborama	Zardnaar wrote:
#6 Zardnaar Oct 21, 2014 16:40:37	Timborama wrote:
#7 Noon Oct 21, 2014 18:59:52	Not sure what you're expecting? The party gets half it's members dropped to zero every other combat?   Do they have a problem with 'sleep walking' their way through? Why not give the choice to them as to whether they take on tougher fights?   Or do you have a problem with it?
#8 DaveDash Oct 22, 2014 0:38:06	I noticed in party 2 only one of your party members has dark vision, and he is not too stealthy. That would be a lethal mistake in one of my games.
#9 Zardnaar Oct 22, 2014 1:55:40	DaveDash wrote:
#10 Uchawi Oct 22, 2014 3:41:34	I just want options so you can pace character self healing, item based healing, spell healing, or any other type of healing. That hardest part is adjusting that rate, or removing healing mechanisms, if the class has healing as part of its makeup.
(Reply to #7) arnwolf666	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #4) Shadewyn	Zardnaar wrote:
#13 Zardnaar Oct 22, 2014 13:07:31	Shadewyn wrote:
(Reply to #13) Shadewyn	Zardnaar wrote:
#15 Zardnaar Oct 22, 2014 16:21:54	Shadewyn wrote:
#16 Elfcrusher Oct 22, 2014 18:23:53	Shadewyn wrote:
#17 Noon Oct 22, 2014 19:57:16	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #16) Shadewyn	Elfcrusher wrote: