Perception as an Ability Score.

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

seti

Jul 09, 2014 9:20:05

Hi everyone, I've been babbling about this in various threads for a while. I'd like to get some opinions on it as a 5e houserule. I've wanted to do this in previous editions, but...It was just too complex, IMO, to disengage perception, initiative, etc. from other stats. I think it could work in 5e, from what I've read. (That being only a few playtest docs, the Basic PDF, and everyone's comments here on 5e.)

 

So. Here's my idea. Perception (Per) is the 7th ability score. You roll it like the others, it has mods like the others. I dunno how you'd adjust point buy for a 7th stat, as I never use point buy. I do the roll 4d6, drop the lowest method for ability scores.

 

  • Per can be written in the slot in the character sheet for 'Passive Perception'.
  • Per has no 'saves' associated with it. Keep using Wis, Dex, etc. (Simple.)
  • (EDIT) Your Per score would be used like any ability check to determine if you noticed something without actively looking for it; there would be no 'passive perception' DM rolls.
  • Per is not a 'class skill' for anyone, like Con. Although, again like Con, a high Per obviously benefits everyone.
  • Your Per bonus (or penalty) and stat takes the place of all perception skills; ie: spotting hidden, seaching, etc.
  • Your Per bonus (or penalty) effects initiative instead of your Dex bonus (or penalty).
  • Your Per bonus (or penalty) can effect long range attacks; either reducing (turning it to a -2, for example) or negating disadvantage. (don't know about this...It's a big, fat maybe.)

 

I think this is a great idea, and it corrects several (IMO) glaring problems with the game. Problems like how clerics (who should always have high Wis scores) can detect an ambush before a fighter or rogue, etc. That makes no sense.

 

It also frees initiative from a rogue (or any Dex class). Why can't a perceptive wizard act first? Why always a rogue or monk? Being fleet of foot and deft of hand shouldn't automatically allow you to act first at the begining of combat. Now, obviously, initiative should be able to be a rogue or monk thing...It has been, and people like it that way. Well, maybe a class proficiency? ie: treat initiative like a skill, and give rogues and monks a class-based bonus to it. Also, bring back that classic feat "Improved Initiative" which anyone can take.

 

The tedious part will be monsters. I plan on dealing with that on a monster by monster basis, as I'm working out encounters, DMing encounters, etc. Tradionally 'perceptive' creatures (beholders, for example) will have high Per ability scores.

 

I think there's enough to the 'perception' skill for it to warrant its own place as a full-fledged ability score. It will also take a tiny slice of power from Wis and Dex, two already important stats with enough other coolness going for them.

 

Heck, there's even a convenient slot right there on the new character sheet...

 

Thoughts? There's probably stuff I'm forgetting...But I think I summed up my idea pretty well.

#2

Rundell

Jul 09, 2014 9:41:20

Sounds good to me. I've always thought the lack of a Perception as an ability is an obvious hole in D&D, and trying to shoehorn it into Wisdom and skills are awkward cludges. 

#3

Thalion94518

Jul 09, 2014 9:42:03

I've been considering something like this as well.

#4

souldoubt

Jul 09, 2014 9:44:42

I was prepared to not like this idea, but it looks like it might actually work.

 

My main objection is that there's a lot of conceptual overlap between Wisdom and a hypothetical Perception stat.  You'd have effectively redefine both to be clear about the distinction.

#5

Sailing_Pirate_Ryan

Jul 10, 2014 4:09:59

I've fiddled with making Perception a 7th ability in the past, but it never quite came together right. Ended up affecting other parts of game in unwelcome ways. Now I'm leaning towards making Perception a kind of AC, a purely defensive stat that is never rolled, but is instead always rolled against. Traps and hazards and inanimate dangers will have a concealment modifier that adds to a d20 roll.

 

Intelligence (Search/Investigate) checks will handle "active" perception.

#6

souldoubt

Jul 09, 2014 11:02:36

Sailing_Pirate_Ryan wrote:
(Reply to #4)

seti

souldoubt wrote:
#8

Saelorn

Jul 09, 2014 14:54:41

seti wrote:
(Reply to #8)

seti

Saelorn wrote:
#10

Saelorn

Jul 09, 2014 15:38:48

seti wrote:
#11

Rhenny

Jul 09, 2014 16:05:57

This would also alleviate the problem people have with using Dex modifier for Initiative.   With a perception abililty, initiative could be purely based on perception.

 

I think they did this with Warhammer FRP when I used to play it 20 years ago (and I'm sure many other games have it too).  I liked it.

(Reply to #10)

seti

Saelorn wrote:
#13

Sailing_Pirate_Ryan

Jul 09, 2014 18:22:45

souldoubt wrote:
#14

seti

Jul 10, 2014 2:54:21

Please, people, I know D&D fans hate change. I honestly believe my idea is sound, and makes the game better.

 

Critique my idea.

 

 Please, find flaws. (breaking D&D canon is not a flaw.) Help me correct any perceived problems.

 

Give me a reason why Perception shouldn't be it's own ability score.

 

I mean a real reason. Not some 'because tradition' reason.

#15

Joe_the_Rat

Jul 10, 2014 5:23:24

What skills would tie to it? What would it save against?

 

And after reassigning skills, what would be left for Wisdom to do besides be a casting stat and "Will" Save?

 

If it perception doesn't interact with the attack/check/save system, it should be a computed/derived/"secondary" stat, not a main attribute. Hit points are derived, so making it a rolled stat not be entirely out of bounds. In point buy this gets wonky.  As a passive roll-against rather than an active attribute, you could make Perception 10 + Int Mod + Wis Mod, to hell with proficiency. This would run you from 8-20, depending on your Int/Wis. I would entertain other stat pairs, but I've seen these two most often in discussions of noticing things. This doesn't get you to initiative, though...

 

If you do want to make it a main attribute, my inclination would be to flat out replace Wisdom with Perception, leave the skills (except perception) where they are, shift the "Will" type saves and Cleric Casting to Charisma, and make the appropriate joggles to classes. I'm not sure what to do with monk in this case.  Alternatively, make Wisdom into Insight (which fits better with how it's used, and doesn't break the sound of it to be a Cleric primary), give Insight (the skill) a new name (something to fit its perception of mental states vs. the physical perception of, er, Perception), and make it the Initiative mod stat, If you're okay with Monks and Clerics going first...

 

#16

Lokiron

Jul 10, 2014 5:23:47

I actually really like the idea, because it elevates perception, system wise, to where it already is in terms of importance. Perception is, indeed, an ability that everyone wants, similar to CON and WIS (previously).

 

However, this is still a problem, because it seems it would be yet another ability which is more important than STR, INT, and CHA. But it does serve to nerf DEX and WIS, and PER could possibly be nerfed itself, by still requiring skills to spot, search, and listen (3.5 paradigm is just an example).

#17

Saelorn

Jul 10, 2014 11:10:42

seti wrote:
#18

FFSAA

Jul 10, 2014 11:22:36

It has never felt like a skill to me, and at some tables and even some pre-made modules you really feel like it's a mandatory skill you can't play without as it can get used as a crutch to cover a lack of good descriptions.

#19

spelley

Jul 10, 2014 11:25:13

Saelorn wrote: