Player Resources in Princes of the Apocalypse - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tashiro Mar 30, 2015 20:41:34	I picked up Princes of the Apocalypse today, and flipped through it some. I won't discuss the adventure itself, since I've not gone over it, but I will discuss some of the other things about this book which strikes me as odd. Originally, there was supposed to be a player's book and a game master's book. Now, the player section has less crunch than the PDF that came out for it earlier. The only races in here are the genasi. The spells are in here, which is fine, but that's all there is. Considering players were supposed to get their own book, I had presumed they were going to consolidate the player's guide and the game master's guide just for ease of us. Now, it seems there wasn't much that was available for the player's guide. This is just a presumption, mind you. My players and I are a touch disappointed. $58 was a huge chunk of money for, effectively, a campaign module. The information in the player's section which wasn't in the PDF isn't of much use for me (effectively, 'here's how you would run this in other campaign worlds'). If you remove what's available in the PDF and that, it's effectively an adventure. Fortunately, I had a gift certificate for my birthday, so I only spent about $12, otherwise I may have simply ignored the book. What is missing, I feel, and what could have given enough for the player's guide, is to add this: Elemental Domains for Clerics. These existed in 3e, I can't see why they wouldn't have been available here. This would make perfect sense as well for promoting Dark Sun, since the Elementals provide their power to Clerics. Elemental Pact Warlocks. These were, I'm told, a thing in 4e. So why not bring them into play here? It would have been pretty cool to see a few new pacts available for Warlocks, to add a bit more variety there. Elemental Bloodline Sorcerers. Another thing which I think would have made sense, was to provide sorcerous bloodlines which were connected to the elementals. We've got wild magic and we've got dragon blood, so why not go another step and bring in elemental lines? People who have their heritage connected to the elemental planes? Barbarian Elemental Totems. Barbarians who channel nature or the elements, rather than channelling animals, would have been really interesting. Come to think of it, creating a dragon totem for the Tiamat adventures could have been cool as well. I also don't see why we couldn't have had a few Feats or Backgrounds tossed in as well. :\ Anyway, that's my two cents. Input would be appreciated.
#2 pukunui Mar 31, 2015 0:35:44	Via Twitter: Me: @mikemearls Why put player content in the new adventure if you're going to give it out for free before the adventure is even released? MM: @pukunui81 DM reference - most (all, I think) of that material is also used by NPCs in the adventure
#3 Thoughts_My_Aim Mar 31, 2015 4:10:01	If the additional player options are going to be released free, like the PoA options were, then I'd far rather see them released slowly and carefully than all at once.
#4 AaronOfBarbaria Mar 31, 2015 5:05:05	Since the really helpful info was already covered by Pukunui, I only want to address this: Tashiro wrote:
#5 Thoughts_My_Aim Mar 31, 2015 6:40:43	Also, there was a player book. It contained several new races and spells and was released for free as a PDF. I'd far rather that than a print book containing a bunch more stuff that they haven't playtested properly, all with a $50 price tag.
#6 FFSAA Mar 31, 2015 6:52:01	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#7 ChrisCarlson Mar 31, 2015 6:56:11	FFSAA wrote:
#8 Coredump00 Mar 31, 2015 7:14:53	Tashiro wrote:
#9 Tashiro Mar 31, 2015 7:24:12	All of this is true. I'm disappointed, but I'm not ... angry? This isn't going to stop me picking up books. But I would have been willing to wait 2-3 more months if it meant getting a thicker, elemental-themed rulebook for the players. And I admit, the fact the adventure runs from Level 1 to 15 is a good thing, but I'm usually not interested in picking up modules, I'm more interested in sourcebooks. We'll have to see what UA come out in the future (and hopefully, they'll come out in hardcover at some point).
(Reply to #9) AaronOfBarbaria	Tashiro wrote:
#11 Lady_Auralla Mar 31, 2015 13:53:06	I find the lack of martial material to be indicitive of their treatment of martial classes.
#12 arnwolf666 Mar 31, 2015 16:16:25	I think some people will never like a publshed adventure. They expect way too much. I could be wrong, are there any published adventures that you like so I can possibly recomend some. You see,m to be wanting more rules not an adventure IMHO.
#13 pukunui Mar 31, 2015 16:19:20	Lady_Auralla wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Tashiro

Mar 30, 2015 20:41:34

I picked up Princes of the Apocalypse today, and flipped through it some. I won't discuss the adventure itself, since I've not gone over it, but I will discuss some of the other things about this book which strikes me as odd. Originally, there was supposed to be a player's book and a game master's book. Now, the player section has less crunch than the PDF that came out for it earlier. The only races in here are the genasi. The spells are in here, which is fine, but that's all there is.

Considering players were supposed to get their own book, I had presumed they were going to consolidate the player's guide and the game master's guide just for ease of us. Now, it seems there wasn't much that was available for the player's guide. This is just a presumption, mind you.

My players and I are a touch disappointed. $58 was a huge chunk of money for, effectively, a campaign module. The information in the player's section which wasn't in the PDF isn't of much use for me (effectively, 'here's how you would run this in other campaign worlds'). If you remove what's available in the PDF and that, it's effectively an adventure. Fortunately, I had a gift certificate for my birthday, so I only spent about $12, otherwise I may have simply ignored the book.

What is missing, I feel, and what could have given enough for the player's guide, is to add this:

Elemental Domains for Clerics. These existed in 3e, I can't see why they wouldn't have been available here. This would make perfect sense as well for promoting Dark Sun, since the Elementals provide their power to Clerics.

Elemental Pact Warlocks. These were, I'm told, a thing in 4e. So why not bring them into play here? It would have been pretty cool to see a few new pacts available for Warlocks, to add a bit more variety there.

Elemental Bloodline Sorcerers. Another thing which I think would have made sense, was to provide sorcerous bloodlines which were connected to the elementals. We've got wild magic and we've got dragon blood, so why not go another step and bring in elemental lines? People who have their heritage connected to the elemental planes?

Barbarian Elemental Totems. Barbarians who channel nature or the elements, rather than channelling animals, would have been really interesting. Come to think of it, creating a dragon totem for the Tiamat adventures could have been cool as well.

I also don't see why we couldn't have had a few Feats or Backgrounds tossed in as well. :\

Anyway, that's my two cents. Input would be appreciated.

pukunui

Mar 31, 2015 0:35:44

Via Twitter:

Me: @mikemearls Why put player content in the new adventure if you're going to give it out for free before the adventure is even released?
MM: @pukunui81 DM reference - most (all, I think) of that material is also used by NPCs in the adventure

Thoughts_My_Aim

Mar 31, 2015 4:10:01

If the additional player options are going to be released free, like the PoA options were, then I'd far rather see them released slowly and carefully than all at once.

AaronOfBarbaria

Mar 31, 2015 5:05:05

Since the really helpful info was already covered by Pukunui, I only want to address this:

Tashiro wrote:

Thoughts_My_Aim

Mar 31, 2015 6:40:43

Also, there was a player book. It contained several new races and spells and was released for free as a PDF.

I'd far rather that than a print book containing a bunch more stuff that they haven't playtested properly, all with a $50 price tag.

FFSAA

Mar 31, 2015 6:52:01

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

ChrisCarlson

Mar 31, 2015 6:56:11

FFSAA wrote:

Coredump00

Mar 31, 2015 7:14:53

Tashiro wrote:

Tashiro

Mar 31, 2015 7:24:12

All of this is true. I'm disappointed, but I'm not ... angry? This isn't going to stop me picking up books. But I would have been willing to wait 2-3 more months if it meant getting a thicker, elemental-themed rulebook for the players. And I admit, the fact the adventure runs from Level 1 to 15 is a good thing, but I'm usually not interested in picking up modules, I'm more interested in sourcebooks. We'll have to see what UA come out in the future (and hopefully, they'll come out in hardcover at some point).

(Reply to #9)

AaronOfBarbaria

Tashiro wrote:

#11

Lady_Auralla

Mar 31, 2015 13:53:06

I find the lack of martial material to be indicitive of their treatment of martial classes.

#12

arnwolf666

Mar 31, 2015 16:16:25

I think some people will never like a publshed adventure. They expect way too much. I could be wrong, are there any published adventures that you like so I can possibly recomend some. You see,m to be wanting more rules not an adventure IMHO.

#13

pukunui

Mar 31, 2015 16:19:20

Lady_Auralla wrote: