Princes of the Apocalypse - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pukunui Mar 23, 2015 14:43:18	Someone over at EN World has gotten their hands on a copy of the full Princes of the Apocalypse adventure early. He hasn't said too much about it as he doesn't want to get into trouble, but he has mentioned a few interesting things: While the main plot of the adventure is designed to take PCs from 3rd level to 15th, the book also includes a few side treks that you can run to get a party from 1st level to 3rd beforehand; there are ~20 plot hooks, including some tailored to the various official factions There's an appendix with suggestions on how to convert the adventure to several other campaign settings, including Eberron The Elemental Evil princes (Ogrémoch, Olhydra, etc) are between CR 18-20, and you only end up fighting one, along with his prophet and minions and such The book has 256 pages To add to the sandboxy feel, there are some sidequests that have nothing to do with the overall plot
#2 Mechatarrasque Mar 23, 2015 17:08:27	pukunui wrote:
#3 pukunui Mar 23, 2015 17:14:02	Mechatarrasque wrote:
#4 Coredump00 Mar 23, 2015 22:28:25	pukunui wrote:
#5 pukunui Mar 23, 2015 22:44:08	Coredump00 wrote:
#6 Sands666 Mar 23, 2015 23:05:22	So no extra material for classes then?
#7 pukunui Mar 23, 2015 23:07:45	Sands666 wrote:
#8 Sands666 Mar 23, 2015 23:15:00	pukunui wrote:
#9 pukunui Mar 23, 2015 23:29:09	Sands666 wrote:
#10 Sands666 Mar 23, 2015 23:38:32	pukunui wrote:
#11 pukunui Mar 24, 2015 0:24:44	Sands666 wrote:
#12 Sands666 Mar 24, 2015 0:52:23	pukunui wrote:
#13 pukunui Mar 24, 2015 0:58:02	Sands666 wrote:
#14 ssvegeta555 Mar 24, 2015 6:58:04	I'll have to read the review again and the thread, but I got the feeling players can choose to go to the elemental themed dungeons in any order. If so, htta's really cool. It feels more open and less rail roady.
#15 Ralif_Redhammer Mar 24, 2015 7:56:47	Hoping for some new monsters in it as well. At least one of my players is DMing his own game and has the MM, so some new beasties would be nice. pukunui wrote:
#16 Mechatarrasque Mar 24, 2015 11:17:30	+1 to the hope for new monsters. I am most interested in paraelementals and myrmidons.
#17 abs1nth Mar 24, 2015 11:24:38	ssvegeta555 wrote:
#18 Eerongal Mar 24, 2015 12:41:48	pukunui wrote:
#19 FFSAA Mar 24, 2015 12:52:40	pukunui wrote:
#20 IxidorRS Mar 24, 2015 12:56:33	abs1nth wrote:
#21 FFSAA Mar 24, 2015 13:13:32	IxidorRS wrote:
#22 pukunui Mar 24, 2015 14:37:32	According to the AL preview version of the adventure, it is set in 1491 DR. While the ToD adventures didn't have a specific date attached to them, the D&D Expeditions adventures set in Phlan during the same time had a date of 1489 DR. LMoP didn't have an official date either, but was generally thought to take place around that time too, if not a little earlier. Also, Fildrigar has expanded his review with some more info: PotA has optional plot hooks involving three NPCs from LMoP Each elemental area is optimized for a certain level range, but they're all close enough that it shouldn't be TPK time if the PCs venture into the "wrong" one The book has seven chapters: An intro chapter with plot hooks and background info; a chapter on the Dessarin Valley and Red Larch; three chapters for the main plot of the adventure; a chapter for side treks and encounters for levels 1-3 (Part 1 of the AL version of PotA); a chapter with monsters and magic items; and several appendices detailing the genasi, new spells, and a guide to porting the adventure over to Athas, Krynn, Oerth, Eberron, or "Your World" According to Fildrigar, there's a good mix of roleplaying and fighting, and the cultists all have varying degrees of response to the PCs' actions EDIT: Another EN World poster has gotten their hands on the book early. Here's his review.
#23 Noon Mar 24, 2015 16:12:03	pukunui wrote:
#24 Orethalion Mar 24, 2015 16:14:59	Noon wrote:
#25 pukunui Mar 24, 2015 16:21:52	Orethalion wrote:
#26 Orethalion Mar 24, 2015 16:41:03	pukunui wrote:
#27 pukunui Mar 24, 2015 17:35:15	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #24) AaronOfBarbaria	Orethalion wrote:
#29 pukunui Mar 25, 2015 18:31:06	Another tidbit from Fildrigar: While you only fight one archomental at the end of the adventure, which one you fight depends on how you've progressed through the adventure (hence why all four get statted up in the adventure). He also says he wouldn't want to be in the party that has to fight Imix due to the presence of fire and lava.
(Reply to #29) FFSAA	pukunui wrote:
#31 MonsterEnvy Mar 26, 2015 2:24:03	FFSAA wrote:
#32 Leugren Mar 26, 2015 8:42:28	When is this adventure supposed to be available at WPN stores? EDIT: Never mind! It's out on March 27, which is tomorrow.
#33 Orethalion Mar 26, 2015 9:04:17	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#34 Mechatarrasque Mar 26, 2015 12:10:01	I liked the 4e versions of the Princes, but they were clearly solo monsters. The 1e versions got a lot of mileage out of their summoned monsters. If the 5e Princes' legendary actions were more warlord-y, then I could see a CR 18-19 Prince working (something like all your allies make an attack, cost 2 actions). I don't think we have seen anything like out of the legendary monsters yet. I am not saying that would be my first choice for how to create them, but it seems like the best fit. The underlying issue is that they don't seem to want to make adventures for groups higher than level 15. That is not a new phenomenon, but it makes it hard to use the CR 25+ archbad guys that we all want to see. Either the big bads have to come into the game nerfed (as it appears in Elemental Evil) or the group needs to have a way to nerf them before they fight them (like in Tiamat's recent appearance), especially if the party has to fight just to physically get to the big bad's location.
#35 DMStevenH Mar 27, 2015 2:36:12	I'd rather have the princes as like CR 18 than CR 24. At CR 18 there's a lot more scope to add supporting allies, lair actions and dangerous terrain to make the PC's lives harder and the fight more interesting without making it overwhelming. Just fighting one super tough CR 24 guy isn't going to be a fun as a CR 24 fight against a CR 18 guy and his elite elemental bodyguards.
#36 Ramzour Mar 27, 2015 4:10:24	Thanks for the info and link, Pukunui! I think this answers the question I had a few days ago about linking LMoP and PoA.
#37 pukunui Mar 27, 2015 4:16:05	Ramzour wrote:
(Reply to #33) AaronOfBarbaria	Orethalion wrote:
#39 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 6:52:48	DMStevenH wrote:
#40 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 7:04:39	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#41 Ramzour Mar 27, 2015 7:20:41	It's almost as if the devs and the PoA adventure authors realize that there's more to a creature than how easily you can kill it....... I mean, are people seriously arguing about whether a creature is CR 18 or 25 or 30 or whatever? Who cares!
(Reply to #40) AaronOfBarbaria	Orethalion wrote:
#43 TenaciousJ Mar 27, 2015 7:28:21	DMStevenH wrote:
#44 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 7:45:45	Ramzour wrote:
#45 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 7:53:29	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #39) DMStevenH	Orethalion wrote:
#47 Eerongal Mar 27, 2015 8:32:43	Orethalion wrote:
#48 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 9:02:50	DMStevenH wrote:
#49 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 9:05:33	Eerongal wrote:
#50 UngeheuerLich Mar 27, 2015 9:06:59	Yes, CR 18 sounds not too high... but very well high enough to be dangerous... Is it really the Primordial itself or just an avatar? Maybe it is weaker due to being summoned just now? I definitely want to see it first in the adventure and yes, I do not care too much. CR 18 sounds fun enough.
#51 Eerongal Mar 27, 2015 9:07:59	Orethalion wrote:
#52 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 9:20:36	Eerongal wrote:
#53 Ramzour Mar 27, 2015 9:15:05	Orethalion wrote:
#54 Ralif_Redhammer Mar 27, 2015 9:20:52	Just picked up a copy. At a quick glance, there are definitely a number of new monsters. Awesome!
#55 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 9:26:54	Also FYI, Dragon Magazine articles are written by freelance authors and have a history of not being carefully balanced (especially during the 3.5 era). Many DMs in the 3.5 era banned dragon magazine at their tables for this very reason, as there was a large number of OP and UP options that it introduced. I am not saying the elemental princes fall into that category, as it has been a very long time since I read the article in question - but it is still something to keep in mind.
#56 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 9:28:19	Ramzour wrote:
#57 Ramzour Mar 27, 2015 9:31:40	Orethalion wrote:
#58 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 9:32:51	Ramzour wrote:
#59 Ramzour Mar 27, 2015 9:40:01	Orethalion wrote:
#60 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 9:52:57	The thing is, the Elemental Princes are the highest CR creatures in the elemental planes (AFAIK). Sure, their power may only be equal to (or slightly inferior) to the most powerful fiends, dragons, and celestials - but on the Elemental Planes, they are the meanest thing on the block. Its not like the Elemental Princes will face Pit Fiends, Balors, Dragons, Solars and the like on a regular (or even infrequent) basis. Such creatures have little reason to travel to the Elemental Planes. Are they comparably weak compared to the most powerful beings in the universe? Yes. The most powerful Fiends, Celestials and Dragons are equal to/superior in power. Does this matter? No. They are the most powerful elementals in the multiverse (with the possible exception of the Efreeti Sultan in the City of Brass).
#61 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 9:51:00	Ramzour wrote:
#62 Ramzour Mar 27, 2015 10:04:09	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #48) DMStevenH	Orethalion wrote:
#64 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 10:17:36	DMStevenH wrote:
#65 FFSAA Mar 27, 2015 10:17:16	Kalani wrote:
#66 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 10:19:43	DMStevenH wrote:
#67 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 10:24:04	FFSAA wrote:
#68 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 10:22:47	Kalani wrote:
#69 Ramzour Mar 27, 2015 10:28:48	Orethalion wrote:
#70 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 10:37:06	Ramzour wrote:
#71 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 10:43:33	Please show me where the Elemental Princes are not the strongest elementals on the plane? Genasi PCs don't count - they are not elementals (only descended from such).
#72 Synjin Mar 27, 2015 10:58:16	WOTC crew played the first session on Twitch. Spoilers abound oviously. http://www.twitch.tv/wotc_dnd/v/3951773
#73 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 11:10:31	Kalani wrote:
#74 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 11:24:39	Orethalion wrote:
#75 FFSAA Mar 27, 2015 12:20:46	Kalani wrote:
#76 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 12:27:44	Fair enough - but as I said previously, the Elemental Planes are largely governed much like the Abyss. The strong carve out domains which they rule over (either by choice, or by default). The stronger the creature, the larger the domain.
#77 pukunui Mar 27, 2015 13:20:44	A thought just occurred to me. In 5e, we have the example of a demilich being a higher CR in its lair than out of it. The elemental princes might be the same - they won't be as challenging when summoned to the prime material plane as they would be if encountered on their native plane or in their lair.
#78 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 13:31:19	pukunui wrote:
#79 Mechatarrasque Mar 27, 2015 14:02:25	pukunui wrote:
#80 FFSAA Mar 27, 2015 14:05:49	pukunui wrote:
#81 Ramzour Mar 27, 2015 14:32:56	Orethalion wrote:
#82 pukunui Mar 27, 2015 15:01:51	Ramzour wrote:
#83 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 15:28:07	Kalani wrote:
#84 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 15:29:42	Ramzour wrote:
#85 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 16:02:01	Orethalion wrote:
#86 pukunui Mar 27, 2015 15:43:04	Orethalion wrote:
#87 MonsterEnvy Mar 27, 2015 15:46:25	Orethalion wrote:
#88 Uchawi Mar 27, 2015 15:58:17	FFSAA wrote:
#89 pukunui Mar 27, 2015 16:03:12	On a side note, how are you supposed to pronounce "Yan-C-Bin" anyway?
#90 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 16:06:34	Kalani wrote:
#91 pukunui Mar 27, 2015 16:08:49	Orethalion wrote:
#92 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 16:09:41	pukunui wrote:
#93 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 16:16:09	They "claim" rulership that is true.... Then again, their rulership is not really contested as most elementals lack the intelligence/desire to challenge them. The CR35 primal elementals (Epic level Handbook p 186-189) could easily challenge most archomentals for power (I believe many of them were in the CR20-30 range), but they are simply not interested in doing so. They aren't unique either (unlike the archomentals).
#94 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 16:11:37	pukunui wrote:
#95 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 16:14:09	Kalani wrote:
#96 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 16:29:22	Orethalion wrote:
#97 pukunui Mar 27, 2015 16:30:22	Orethalion wrote:
#98 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 16:35:01	As I implied above - I consider their stats as being relevant only to the story. I consider Tiamat to be a CR35 creature on her home plane, complete with L20 Cleric and Wizard spells, and Lair Actions. I see the archomentals with little difference. These are their stats as they apply to the adventure. Feel free to change them for a different adventure set in the evil regions of the Elemental Planes.
#99 Orethalion Mar 27, 2015 17:39:57	Kalani wrote:
#100 Sands666 Mar 27, 2015 18:54:54	Ralif_Redhammer wrote:
#101 Sands666 Mar 27, 2015 18:57:40	Synjin wrote:
#102 Rhenny Mar 27, 2015 19:16:52	I got my copy of the campaign guide, and it is impressive. I love how it begins at 3rd level, but there is a section that has small adventures that can be used for 1st and 2nd level if you want to begin a campaign from level 1. In the same chapter, it also has a number of sidetreks that can be used as the DM sees fit to add variety and fill in so that the campaign has tangential developments and discoveries. I end up making my own sidetreks when I run my Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle campaign, so it is nice to see that this published campaign includes pre-made possibilities. I haven't had time to read through the whole thing yet, but I'm glad I have it.
#103 Sands666 Mar 27, 2015 20:15:20	Rhenny wrote:
(Reply to #103) Rhenny	Sands666 wrote:
#105 Ramzour Mar 27, 2015 23:37:57	Orethalion wrote:
#106 pukunui Mar 28, 2015 3:29:17	Ramzour wrote:
#107 Orethalion Mar 28, 2015 6:48:15	pukunui wrote:
#108 Gwaithador Mar 28, 2015 8:20:48	The Princes of Elemental Evil harken back to the old Fiend Folio with Qullans, Grells, Nilbogs and princes of elemental evil. I do mean old; we were still coloring in the pips of our dice with crayons and using thin card board DM screens, and negative AC was a good thing to have, you youngens never had it so good! But I digress. The princes of evil elemental creatures were described as a level X (ten) monster, with negative ACs, very high magic resistance, dangerous damage output, the ability to summon allies, dangerous powers that could kill quickly in the old Folio. Which put them on par with say, Yeenoghu, in the 1e Monster Manual. Yeenoghu was one of the weaker demon lords, in comparison to his fellow demon lords. Since we don't have challenge ratings for demon lords (as of yet), it's hard to know where exactly they fit in the scale. But, I generally agree with the position that the Elemental Princes should present a challenge to 18-20 level 5e characters.
#109 Kalani Mar 28, 2015 8:50:53	BECMI and 1E were my first experiences with D&D. I only managed to play 2E and 2.5 (Players Option) for a short period before finishing highschool. I entered the game in 1996, when 2E was only 7yo but not many of my friends had access to it. Prior to that, I had been playing advanced fighting fantasy by Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone.
#110 CVB Mar 28, 2015 11:35:01	We're complaining about NPC power level? Really? Still, if that's all we got, then the adventure must be an excellently well written one...
#111 Orethalion Mar 28, 2015 11:47:10	CVB wrote:
#112 Jenks Mar 28, 2015 16:05:34	If they were CR 25 then the players couldn't fight him at level 15 at the end of the adventure. That would pose an issue.
#113 Kalani Mar 28, 2015 16:36:57	Jenks wrote:
#114 Orethalion Mar 28, 2015 17:06:36	Jenks wrote:
#115 Orethalion Mar 28, 2015 17:07:24	Kalani wrote:
#116 Kalani Mar 28, 2015 17:21:24	The thing is - do we even know for a fact they aren't aspects? Has anyone in this thread purchased the adventure in the past 36hrs and read enough of the adventure (or at least the final arc) to know for certain that the CR 18 prince is not in fact an aspect of the whole? To me, a lot of this is based on assumption and conjecture when it is simply too early to know. I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, only that they are premature.
#117 Orethalion Mar 28, 2015 19:03:06	Kalani wrote:
#118 Kalani Mar 28, 2015 19:28:02	While CR doesn't translate directly from edition to edition, the aspects of the elemental princes (called Elemental Avatars) were CR 15-18 in the MM4. It's possible that they used them as reference material when making the Elemental Princes for 5E (in addition to the few references elsewhere). Named black rock triskellion, cyclonic ravager, holocaust disciple, and waterveiled assassin respectively. Another point that is relevant is the following entry from the MM4 regarding the elemental princes specifically. Avatars of Elemental Evil (MM4 p7) The avatars of Elemental Evil represent the princes' first steps in reestablishing their power. Since the destruction fo the Temple of All-Consumption (see the Return to the Temple of Elemental evil adventure), the four princes have been actively spreading their foul progeny across the Material Plane. Luckily for the world, the princes rarely cooperate......
#119 Jenks Mar 28, 2015 22:39:03	Fighting aspects isn't nearly as cool as fighting the real deal. Might even sell less copies, which we don't want. We want it to sell as many copies as it can so we can get more material, cr 18 ogremoch or not.
#120 gregsc Mar 28, 2015 23:07:12	SPOILERS I just read the section on the Princes, and it looks to me that these are not meant to be avatars or aspects. The presence of an elemental node turns the area into the Princes lair, so they have full access to all of their features.
#121 MonsterEnvy Mar 28, 2015 23:47:30	gregsc wrote:
#122 Noon Mar 29, 2015 1:19:36	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #121) gregsc	MonsterEnvy wrote:
#124 gregsc Mar 29, 2015 6:32:41	SPOILERS To answer a couple other questions from the thread: Yes, the nodes will take you to the elemental plane. They lead to the stronghold of the Prince the cult is trying to summon. The Princes cannot travel through the nodes until the summoning ritual is complete. The Princes are resistant to damage from non-magical weapons, not immune.
#125 gregsc Mar 29, 2015 6:57:06	I haven't read much of the new adventure, but I've already decided to run this after Lost Mine, instead of Hoard. I've been tying myself in knots trying to come up with a good transition from Lost Mine to Hoard. Transitioning to Princes will be easy. There are a few suggestions written into the book, and the regional maps even overlap.
(Reply to #101) EthanSental	Sands666 wrote:
#127 Kalani Mar 29, 2015 11:51:51	Just picked up my copy. So far I have only read the stats for Imix and I have to say he is the strongest CR19 creature I am aware of. Upon first read, He makes liches look weak - and that is before you factor in his lair actions. I suspect the only reason he is CR19 is because fire is the most commonly resisted element. We're it not for this fact I think his powers are equivalent to CR21-22 I feel sorry for any party which faces Imix in the final battle. The damage he deals could quickly lead to a TPK - despite any resistance to fire the party might have. Ogremoch is CR20. The other two are CR18.
#128 DMStevenH Mar 30, 2015 2:08:32	Yeah, I picked up my copy this weekend. They seem fine to me challenge wise. I'm really excited to speed my new group through the Phandelver so I can get started with PotA. Also in this edition they're not the rulers of the entire elemental plane. They're meerly very, very powerful elementals who influence and corrupt other elementals nearby. Also if you think Imix is tough then make sure you look at the actual encounter with Imix. Imix + Vanithra + Young Red Dragon.... Bring fire resist potions guys.
#129 MonsterEnvy Mar 30, 2015 7:42:35	DMStevenH wrote:
#130 gregsc Mar 30, 2015 9:16:12	Ogremoch doesn't get multiple ranged attacks, and his Legendary Actions seem kind of weak, but he does have 526 hp and AC20.
#131 gregsc Mar 30, 2015 9:21:59	Yan-C-Bin has the very nasty Suffocate legendary action. It's a save-or-drop effect with a constitution save of 21. He could potentially drop a character every round, and not even on his turn.
#132 Kalani Mar 30, 2015 9:40:01	gregsc wrote:
#133 gregsc Mar 30, 2015 11:14:59	I forgot about the Advantage part of that. That's stronger than I was thinking. Create Gargoyle seems situational to me. It's good if he needs a flying ally, but it costs 3 legendary actions and 50 hp to create a gargoyle that makes two 1d6 attacks per round. In most cases I think he would be best served to hold onto his hp to stay in the fight longer. He has lots of hp and massive melee attacks. Create Gargoyle seems to detract from his strengths instead of enhancing them.
#134 MonsterEnvy Mar 30, 2015 13:51:43	gregsc wrote:
#135 gregsc Mar 30, 2015 13:48:47	Yeah, I was thinking the burrow ability might be one of his best features.
#136 MonsterEnvy Mar 30, 2015 17:28:35	Also forgot to mention. Another buff I gave Ogremoch's gargoyles in order to make the ability worth it, is that they are now large. Increasing their damage die to 2d6 instead of 1d6
#137 DMStevenH Mar 31, 2015 1:35:43	Has anyone got an idea of what level the party are meant to be when they fight whichever Prince they fight? I think it starts at level 3. Gain a level each time you clear a haunted keep. Gets you to seven. Gain a level for each elemental temple. Gets you to eleven. One for the fane of the eye. Three more for the elemental nodes. Like, level fifteen? That doesn't seem like enough levels. I guess you want to run a couple of side adventures to round out to level seventeen or so....
#138 pukunui Mar 31, 2015 2:07:10	The adventure says it's for levels 3-15.
#139 moonbeast Mar 31, 2015 2:56:32	Sands666 wrote:
(Reply to #138) DMStevenH	pukunui wrote:
#141 Orethalion Mar 31, 2015 6:48:52	moonbeast wrote:
#142 Finieous Mar 31, 2015 10:02:48	moonbeast wrote:
#143 Orethalion Mar 31, 2015 10:23:57	I took a look at the adventure yesterday. The princes are reasonably tough for a 15th level group. However, they were not where I would put them based on what I know of them. They were still a bit on the weak side. If I ever run that adventure, I will make them aspects and make a stronger version for later if the PCs want to go after the real princes.
#144 BRJN Mar 31, 2015 13:57:48	moonbeast wrote:
#145 pukunui Mar 31, 2015 16:25:58	moonbeast wrote:
#146 MonsterEnvy Mar 31, 2015 22:55:08	There is even new game called Sword Coast Legends. Still I like the Coast and enjoy it as an area.
#147 BRJN Apr 02, 2015 13:39:36	pukunui wrote:
#148 paulstrait Apr 02, 2015 15:10:13	pukunui wrote:
#149 Nozareem Apr 02, 2015 17:36:49	So we get a decient campaign, screwed over Genasi in looks and primary modifiers being Con that no no class has that as a primary and o yeah We got new spells with no new classes that could have been elemental theme. It's great for DMs but that's all, players don't get Jack! Thanks WOTC for screwing players out of any new classes!! Dropped the ball again!!
#150 pukunui Apr 02, 2015 18:46:09	paulstrait wrote:
#151 moonbeast Apr 07, 2015 19:26:51	pukunui wrote:
(Reply to #150) Enevhar_Aldarion	pukunui wrote:
#153 moonbeast Apr 07, 2015 23:16:35	Enevhar_Aldarion wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

pukunui

Mar 23, 2015 14:43:18

Someone over at EN World has gotten their hands on a copy of the full Princes of the Apocalypse adventure early. He hasn't said too much about it as he doesn't want to get into trouble, but he has mentioned a few interesting things:

While the main plot of the adventure is designed to take PCs from 3rd level to 15th, the book also includes a few side treks that you can run to get a party from 1st level to 3rd beforehand; there are ~20 plot hooks, including some tailored to the various official factions
There's an appendix with suggestions on how to convert the adventure to several other campaign settings, including Eberron
The Elemental Evil princes (Ogrémoch, Olhydra, etc) are between CR 18-20, and you only end up fighting one, along with his prophet and minions and such
The book has 256 pages
To add to the sandboxy feel, there are some sidequests that have nothing to do with the overall plot

Mechatarrasque

Mar 23, 2015 17:08:27

pukunui wrote:

pukunui

Mar 23, 2015 17:14:02

Mechatarrasque wrote:

Coredump00

Mar 23, 2015 22:28:25

pukunui wrote:

pukunui

Mar 23, 2015 22:44:08

Coredump00 wrote:

Sands666

Mar 23, 2015 23:05:22

So no extra material for classes then?

pukunui

Mar 23, 2015 23:07:45

Sands666 wrote:

Sands666

Mar 23, 2015 23:15:00

pukunui wrote:

pukunui

Mar 23, 2015 23:29:09

Sands666 wrote:

#10

Sands666

Mar 23, 2015 23:38:32

pukunui wrote:

#11

pukunui

Mar 24, 2015 0:24:44

Sands666 wrote:

#12

Sands666

Mar 24, 2015 0:52:23

pukunui wrote:

#13

pukunui

Mar 24, 2015 0:58:02

Sands666 wrote:

#14

ssvegeta555

Mar 24, 2015 6:58:04

I'll have to read the review again and the thread, but I got the feeling players can choose to go to the elemental themed dungeons in any order. If so, htta's really cool. It feels more open and less rail roady.

#15

Ralif_Redhammer

Mar 24, 2015 7:56:47

Hoping for some new monsters in it as well. At least one of my players is DMing his own game and has the MM, so some new beasties would be nice.

pukunui wrote:

#16

Mechatarrasque

Mar 24, 2015 11:17:30

+1 to the hope for new monsters. I am most interested in paraelementals and myrmidons.

#17

abs1nth

Mar 24, 2015 11:24:38

ssvegeta555 wrote:

#18

Eerongal

Mar 24, 2015 12:41:48

pukunui wrote:

#19

FFSAA

Mar 24, 2015 12:52:40

pukunui wrote:

#20

IxidorRS

Mar 24, 2015 12:56:33

abs1nth wrote:

#21

FFSAA

Mar 24, 2015 13:13:32

IxidorRS wrote:

#22

pukunui

Mar 24, 2015 14:37:32

According to the AL preview version of the adventure, it is set in 1491 DR. While the ToD adventures didn't have a specific date attached to them, the D&D Expeditions adventures set in Phlan during the same time had a date of 1489 DR. LMoP didn't have an official date either, but was generally thought to take place around that time too, if not a little earlier.

Also, Fildrigar has expanded his review with some more info:

PotA has optional plot hooks involving three NPCs from LMoP
Each elemental area is optimized for a certain level range, but they're all close enough that it shouldn't be TPK time if the PCs venture into the "wrong" one
The book has seven chapters: An intro chapter with plot hooks and background info; a chapter on the Dessarin Valley and Red Larch; three chapters for the main plot of the adventure; a chapter for side treks and encounters for levels 1-3 (Part 1 of the AL version of PotA); a chapter with monsters and magic items; and several appendices detailing the genasi, new spells, and a guide to porting the adventure over to Athas, Krynn, Oerth, Eberron, or "Your World"
According to Fildrigar, there's a good mix of roleplaying and fighting, and the cultists all have varying degrees of response to the PCs' actions

EDIT: Another EN World poster has gotten their hands on the book early. Here's his review.

#23

Noon

Mar 24, 2015 16:12:03

pukunui wrote:

#24

Orethalion

Mar 24, 2015 16:14:59

Noon wrote:

#25

pukunui

Mar 24, 2015 16:21:52

Orethalion wrote:

#26

Orethalion

Mar 24, 2015 16:41:03

pukunui wrote:

#27

pukunui

Mar 24, 2015 17:35:15

Orethalion wrote:

(Reply to #24)

AaronOfBarbaria

Orethalion wrote:

#29

pukunui

Mar 25, 2015 18:31:06

Another tidbit from Fildrigar: While you only fight one archomental at the end of the adventure, which one you fight depends on how you've progressed through the adventure (hence why all four get statted up in the adventure). He also says he wouldn't want to be in the party that has to fight Imix due to the presence of fire and lava.

(Reply to #29)

FFSAA

pukunui wrote:

#31

MonsterEnvy

Mar 26, 2015 2:24:03

FFSAA wrote:

#32

Leugren

Mar 26, 2015 8:42:28

When is this adventure supposed to be available at WPN stores?

EDIT: Never mind! It's out on March 27, which is tomorrow.

#33

Orethalion

Mar 26, 2015 9:04:17

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

#34

Mechatarrasque

Mar 26, 2015 12:10:01

I liked the 4e versions of the Princes, but they were clearly solo monsters. The 1e versions got a lot of mileage out of their summoned monsters. If the 5e Princes' legendary actions were more warlord-y, then I could see a CR 18-19 Prince working (something like all your allies make an attack, cost 2 actions). I don't think we have seen anything like out of the legendary monsters yet. I am not saying that would be my first choice for how to create them, but it seems like the best fit.

The underlying issue is that they don't seem to want to make adventures for groups higher than level 15. That is not a new phenomenon, but it makes it hard to use the CR 25+ archbad guys that we all want to see. Either the big bads have to come into the game nerfed (as it appears in Elemental Evil) or the group needs to have a way to nerf them before they fight them (like in Tiamat's recent appearance), especially if the party has to fight just to physically get to the big bad's location.

#35

DMStevenH

Mar 27, 2015 2:36:12

I'd rather have the princes as like CR 18 than CR 24. At CR 18 there's a lot more scope to add supporting allies, lair actions and dangerous terrain to make the PC's lives harder and the fight more interesting without making it overwhelming. Just fighting one super tough CR 24 guy isn't going to be a fun as a CR 24 fight against a CR 18 guy and his elite elemental bodyguards.

#36

Ramzour

Mar 27, 2015 4:10:24

Thanks for the info and link, Pukunui! I think this answers the question I had a few days ago about linking LMoP and PoA.

#37

pukunui

Mar 27, 2015 4:16:05

Ramzour wrote:

(Reply to #33)

AaronOfBarbaria

Orethalion wrote:

#39

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 6:52:48

DMStevenH wrote:

#40

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 7:04:39

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

#41

Ramzour

Mar 27, 2015 7:20:41

It's almost as if the devs and the PoA adventure authors realize that there's more to a creature than how easily you can kill it.......

I mean, are people seriously arguing about whether a creature is CR 18 or 25 or 30 or whatever? Who cares!

(Reply to #40)

AaronOfBarbaria

Orethalion wrote:

#43

TenaciousJ

Mar 27, 2015 7:28:21

DMStevenH wrote:

#44

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 7:45:45

Ramzour wrote:

#45

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 7:53:29

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

(Reply to #39)

DMStevenH

Orethalion wrote:

#47

Eerongal

Mar 27, 2015 8:32:43

Orethalion wrote:

#48

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 9:02:50

DMStevenH wrote:

#49

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 9:05:33

Eerongal wrote:

#50

UngeheuerLich

Mar 27, 2015 9:06:59

Yes, CR 18 sounds not too high... but very well high enough to be dangerous...

Is it really the Primordial itself or just an avatar?

Maybe it is weaker due to being summoned just now? I definitely want to see it first in the adventure and yes, I do not care too much. CR 18 sounds fun enough.

#51

Eerongal

Mar 27, 2015 9:07:59

Orethalion wrote:

#52

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 9:20:36

Eerongal wrote:

#53

Ramzour

Mar 27, 2015 9:15:05

Orethalion wrote:

#54

Ralif_Redhammer

Mar 27, 2015 9:20:52

Just picked up a copy. At a quick glance, there are definitely a number of new monsters. Awesome!

#55

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 9:26:54

Also FYI, Dragon Magazine articles are written by freelance authors and have a history of not being carefully balanced (especially during the 3.5 era). Many DMs in the 3.5 era banned dragon magazine at their tables for this very reason, as there was a large number of OP and UP options that it introduced.

I am not saying the elemental princes fall into that category, as it has been a very long time since I read the article in question - but it is still something to keep in mind.

#56

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 9:28:19

Ramzour wrote:

#57

Ramzour

Mar 27, 2015 9:31:40

Orethalion wrote:

#58

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 9:32:51

Ramzour wrote:

#59

Ramzour

Mar 27, 2015 9:40:01

Orethalion wrote:

#60

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 9:52:57

The thing is, the Elemental Princes are the highest CR creatures in the elemental planes (AFAIK). Sure, their power may only be equal to (or slightly inferior) to the most powerful fiends, dragons, and celestials - but on the Elemental Planes, they are the meanest thing on the block.

Its not like the Elemental Princes will face Pit Fiends, Balors, Dragons, Solars and the like on a regular (or even infrequent) basis. Such creatures have little reason to travel to the Elemental Planes.

Are they comparably weak compared to the most powerful beings in the universe?

Yes. The most powerful Fiends, Celestials and Dragons are equal to/superior in power.

Does this matter?

No. They are the most powerful elementals in the multiverse (with the possible exception of the Efreeti Sultan in the City of Brass).

#61

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 9:51:00

Ramzour wrote:

#62

Ramzour

Mar 27, 2015 10:04:09

Orethalion wrote:

(Reply to #48)

DMStevenH

Orethalion wrote:

#64

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 10:17:36

DMStevenH wrote:

#65

FFSAA

Mar 27, 2015 10:17:16

Kalani wrote:

#66

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 10:19:43

DMStevenH wrote:

#67

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 10:24:04

FFSAA wrote:

#68

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 10:22:47

Kalani wrote:

#69

Ramzour

Mar 27, 2015 10:28:48

Orethalion wrote:

#70

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 10:37:06

Ramzour wrote:

#71

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 10:43:33

Please show me where the Elemental Princes are not the strongest elementals on the plane?

Genasi PCs don't count - they are not elementals (only descended from such).

#72

Synjin

Mar 27, 2015 10:58:16

WOTC crew played the first session on Twitch. Spoilers abound oviously.

http://www.twitch.tv/wotc_dnd/v/3951773

#73

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 11:10:31

Kalani wrote:

#74

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 11:24:39

Orethalion wrote:

#75

FFSAA

Mar 27, 2015 12:20:46

Kalani wrote:

#76

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 12:27:44

Fair enough - but as I said previously, the Elemental Planes are largely governed much like the Abyss. The strong carve out domains which they rule over (either by choice, or by default). The stronger the creature, the larger the domain.

#77

pukunui

Mar 27, 2015 13:20:44

A thought just occurred to me. In 5e, we have the example of a demilich being a higher CR in its lair than out of it. The elemental princes might be the same - they won't be as challenging when summoned to the prime material plane as they would be if encountered on their native plane or in their lair.

#78

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 13:31:19

pukunui wrote:

#79

Mechatarrasque

Mar 27, 2015 14:02:25

pukunui wrote:

#80

FFSAA

Mar 27, 2015 14:05:49

pukunui wrote:

#81

Ramzour

Mar 27, 2015 14:32:56

Orethalion wrote:

#82

pukunui

Mar 27, 2015 15:01:51

Ramzour wrote:

#83

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 15:28:07

Kalani wrote:

#84

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 15:29:42

Ramzour wrote:

#85

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 16:02:01

Orethalion wrote:

#86

pukunui

Mar 27, 2015 15:43:04

Orethalion wrote:

#87

MonsterEnvy

Mar 27, 2015 15:46:25

Orethalion wrote:

#88

Uchawi

Mar 27, 2015 15:58:17

FFSAA wrote:

#89

pukunui

Mar 27, 2015 16:03:12

On a side note, how are you supposed to pronounce "Yan-C-Bin" anyway?

#90

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 16:06:34

Kalani wrote:

#91

pukunui

Mar 27, 2015 16:08:49

Orethalion wrote:

#92

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 16:09:41

pukunui wrote:

#93

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 16:16:09

They "claim" rulership that is true.... Then again, their rulership is not really contested as most elementals lack the intelligence/desire to challenge them. The CR35 primal elementals (Epic level Handbook p 186-189) could easily challenge most archomentals for power (I believe many of them were in the CR20-30 range), but they are simply not interested in doing so.

They aren't unique either (unlike the archomentals).

#94

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 16:11:37

pukunui wrote:

#95

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 16:14:09

Kalani wrote:

#96

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 16:29:22

Orethalion wrote:

#97

pukunui

Mar 27, 2015 16:30:22

Orethalion wrote:

#98

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 16:35:01

As I implied above - I consider their stats as being relevant only to the story. I consider Tiamat to be a CR35 creature on her home plane, complete with L20 Cleric and Wizard spells, and Lair Actions.

I see the archomentals with little difference. These are their stats as they apply to the adventure. Feel free to change them for a different adventure set in the evil regions of the Elemental Planes.

#99

Orethalion

Mar 27, 2015 17:39:57

Kalani wrote:

#100

Sands666

Mar 27, 2015 18:54:54

Ralif_Redhammer wrote:

#101

Sands666

Mar 27, 2015 18:57:40

Synjin wrote:

#102

Rhenny

Mar 27, 2015 19:16:52

I got my copy of the campaign guide, and it is impressive.

I love how it begins at 3rd level, but there is a section that has small adventures that can be used for 1st and 2nd level if you want to begin a campaign from level 1.

In the same chapter, it also has a number of sidetreks that can be used as the DM sees fit to add variety and fill in so that the campaign has tangential developments and discoveries. I end up making my own sidetreks when I run my Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle campaign, so it is nice to see that this published campaign includes pre-made possibilities.

I haven't had time to read through the whole thing yet, but I'm glad I have it.

#103

Sands666

Mar 27, 2015 20:15:20

Rhenny wrote:

(Reply to #103)

Rhenny

Sands666 wrote:

#105

Ramzour

Mar 27, 2015 23:37:57

Orethalion wrote:

#106

pukunui

Mar 28, 2015 3:29:17

Ramzour wrote:

#107

Orethalion

Mar 28, 2015 6:48:15

pukunui wrote:

#108

Gwaithador

Mar 28, 2015 8:20:48

The Princes of Elemental Evil harken back to the old Fiend Folio with Qullans, Grells, Nilbogs and princes of elemental evil. I do mean old; we were still coloring in the pips of our dice with crayons and using thin card board DM screens, and negative AC was a good thing to have, you youngens never had it so good!

But I digress.

The princes of evil elemental creatures were described as a level X (ten) monster, with negative ACs, very high magic resistance, dangerous damage output, the ability to summon allies, dangerous powers that could kill quickly in the old Folio. Which put them on par with say, Yeenoghu, in the 1e Monster Manual. Yeenoghu was one of the weaker demon lords, in comparison to his fellow demon lords. Since we don't have challenge ratings for demon lords (as of yet), it's hard to know where exactly they fit in the scale. But, I generally agree with the position that the Elemental Princes should present a challenge to 18-20 level 5e characters.

#109

Kalani

Mar 28, 2015 8:50:53

BECMI and 1E were my first experiences with D&D. I only managed to play 2E and 2.5 (Players Option) for a short period before finishing highschool. I entered the game in 1996, when 2E was only 7yo but not many of my friends had access to it. Prior to that, I had been playing advanced fighting fantasy by Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone.

#110

CVB

Mar 28, 2015 11:35:01

We're complaining about NPC power level? Really?

Still, if that's all we got, then the adventure must be an excellently well written one...

#111

Orethalion

Mar 28, 2015 11:47:10

CVB wrote:

#112

Jenks

Mar 28, 2015 16:05:34

If they were CR 25 then the players couldn't fight him at level 15 at the end of the adventure. That would pose an issue.

#113

Kalani

Mar 28, 2015 16:36:57

Jenks wrote:

#114

Orethalion

Mar 28, 2015 17:06:36

Jenks wrote:

#115

Orethalion

Mar 28, 2015 17:07:24

Kalani wrote:

#116

Kalani

Mar 28, 2015 17:21:24

The thing is - do we even know for a fact they aren't aspects? Has anyone in this thread purchased the adventure in the past 36hrs and read enough of the adventure (or at least the final arc) to know for certain that the CR 18 prince is not in fact an aspect of the whole? To me, a lot of this is based on assumption and conjecture when it is simply too early to know. I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, only that they are premature.

#117

Orethalion

Mar 28, 2015 19:03:06

Kalani wrote:

#118

Kalani

Mar 28, 2015 19:28:02

While CR doesn't translate directly from edition to edition, the aspects of the elemental princes (called Elemental Avatars*) were CR 15-18 in the MM4. It's possible that they used them as reference material when making the Elemental Princes for 5E (in addition to the few references elsewhere).

* Named black rock triskellion, cyclonic ravager, holocaust disciple, and waterveiled assassin respectively.

Another point that is relevant is the following entry from the MM4 regarding the elemental princes specifically.

Avatars of Elemental Evil (MM4 p7)
The avatars of Elemental Evil represent the princes' first steps in reestablishing their power. Since the destruction fo the Temple of All-Consumption (see the Return to the Temple of Elemental evil adventure), the four princes have been actively spreading their foul progeny across the Material Plane. Luckily for the world, the princes rarely cooperate......

#119

Jenks

Mar 28, 2015 22:39:03

Fighting aspects isn't nearly as cool as fighting the real deal. Might even sell less copies, which we don't want. We want it to sell as many copies as it can so we can get more material, cr 18 ogremoch or not.

#120

gregsc

Mar 28, 2015 23:07:12

*SPOILERS*

I just read the section on the Princes, and it looks to me that these are not meant to be avatars or aspects. The presence of an elemental node turns the area into the Princes lair, so they have full access to all of their features.

#121

MonsterEnvy

Mar 28, 2015 23:47:30

gregsc wrote:

#122

Noon

Mar 29, 2015 1:19:36

Orethalion wrote:

(Reply to #121)

gregsc

MonsterEnvy wrote:

#124

gregsc

Mar 29, 2015 6:32:41

*SPOILERS*

To answer a couple other questions from the thread:

Yes, the nodes will take you to the elemental plane. They lead to the stronghold of the Prince the cult is trying to summon. The Princes cannot travel through the nodes until the summoning ritual is complete.

The Princes are resistant to damage from non-magical weapons, not immune.

#125

gregsc

Mar 29, 2015 6:57:06

I haven't read much of the new adventure, but I've already decided to run this after Lost Mine, instead of Hoard. I've been tying myself in knots trying to come up with a good transition from Lost Mine to Hoard. Transitioning to Princes will be easy. There are a few suggestions written into the book, and the regional maps even overlap.

(Reply to #101)

EthanSental

Sands666 wrote:

#127

Kalani

Mar 29, 2015 11:51:51

Just picked up my copy. So far I have only read the stats for Imix and I have to say he is the strongest CR19 creature I am aware of. Upon first read, He makes liches look weak - and that is before you factor in his lair actions.

I suspect the only reason he is CR19 is because fire is the most commonly resisted element. We're it not for this fact I think his powers are equivalent to CR21-22

I feel sorry for any party which faces Imix in the final battle. The damage he deals could quickly lead to a TPK - despite any resistance to fire the party might have.

Ogremoch is CR20. The other two are CR18.

#128

DMStevenH

Mar 30, 2015 2:08:32

Yeah, I picked up my copy this weekend. They seem fine to me challenge wise. I'm really excited to speed my new group through the Phandelver so I can get started with PotA. Also in this edition they're not the rulers of the entire elemental plane. They're meerly very, very powerful elementals who influence and corrupt other elementals nearby.

Also if you think Imix is tough then make sure you look at the actual encounter with Imix. Imix + Vanithra + Young Red Dragon....

Bring fire resist potions guys.

#129

MonsterEnvy

Mar 30, 2015 7:42:35

DMStevenH wrote:

#130

gregsc

Mar 30, 2015 9:16:12

Ogremoch doesn't get multiple ranged attacks, and his Legendary Actions seem kind of weak, but he does have 526 hp and AC20.

#131

gregsc

Mar 30, 2015 9:21:59

Yan-C-Bin has the very nasty Suffocate legendary action. It's a save-or-drop effect with a constitution save of 21. He could potentially drop a character every round, and not even on his turn.

#132

Kalani

Mar 30, 2015 9:40:01

gregsc wrote:

#133

gregsc

Mar 30, 2015 11:14:59

I forgot about the Advantage part of that. That's stronger than I was thinking.

Create Gargoyle seems situational to me. It's good if he needs a flying ally, but it costs 3 legendary actions and 50 hp to create a gargoyle that makes two 1d6 attacks per round. In most cases I think he would be best served to hold onto his hp to stay in the fight longer. He has lots of hp and massive melee attacks. Create Gargoyle seems to detract from his strengths instead of enhancing them.

#134

MonsterEnvy

Mar 30, 2015 13:51:43

gregsc wrote:

#135

gregsc

Mar 30, 2015 13:48:47

Yeah, I was thinking the burrow ability might be one of his best features.

#136

MonsterEnvy

Mar 30, 2015 17:28:35

Also forgot to mention. Another buff I gave Ogremoch's gargoyles in order to make the ability worth it, is that they are now large. Increasing their damage die to 2d6 instead of 1d6

#137

DMStevenH

Mar 31, 2015 1:35:43

Has anyone got an idea of what level the party are meant to be when they fight whichever Prince they fight?

I think it starts at level 3. Gain a level each time you clear a haunted keep. Gets you to seven. Gain a level for each elemental temple. Gets you to eleven. One for the fane of the eye. Three more for the elemental nodes. Like, level fifteen? That doesn't seem like enough levels. I guess you want to run a couple of side adventures to round out to level seventeen or so....

#138

pukunui

Mar 31, 2015 2:07:10

The adventure says it's for levels 3-15.

#139

moonbeast

Mar 31, 2015 2:56:32

Sands666 wrote:

(Reply to #138)

DMStevenH

pukunui wrote:

#141

Orethalion

Mar 31, 2015 6:48:52

moonbeast wrote:

#142

Finieous

Mar 31, 2015 10:02:48

moonbeast wrote:

#143

Orethalion

Mar 31, 2015 10:23:57

I took a look at the adventure yesterday. The princes are reasonably tough for a 15th level group. However, they were not where I would put them based on what I know of them. They were still a bit on the weak side. If I ever run that adventure, I will make them aspects and make a stronger version for later if the PCs want to go after the real princes.

#144

BRJN

Mar 31, 2015 13:57:48

moonbeast wrote:

#145

pukunui

Mar 31, 2015 16:25:58

moonbeast wrote:

#146

MonsterEnvy

Mar 31, 2015 22:55:08

There is even new game called Sword Coast Legends.

Still I like the Coast and enjoy it as an area.

#147

BRJN

Apr 02, 2015 13:39:36

pukunui wrote:

#148

paulstrait

Apr 02, 2015 15:10:13

pukunui wrote:

#149

Nozareem

Apr 02, 2015 17:36:49

So we get a decient campaign, screwed over Genasi in looks and primary modifiers being Con that no no class has that as a primary and o yeah We got new spells with no new classes that could have been elemental theme. It's great for DMs but that's all, players don't get Jack! Thanks WOTC for screwing players out of any new classes!! Dropped the ball again!!

#150

pukunui

Apr 02, 2015 18:46:09

paulstrait wrote:

#151

moonbeast

Apr 07, 2015 19:26:51

pukunui wrote:

(Reply to #150)

Enevhar_Aldarion

pukunui wrote:

#153

moonbeast

Apr 07, 2015 23:16:35

Enevhar_Aldarion wrote: