Hi folks,
My copy of Princes of the Apocalypse arrived last Friday, and I've been hungrily reading my way through it, as I'm planning on running it for my wife and our friends after we finish Lost Mine in a session or two. As I read through the module, I've been compiling a list of all the issues I've come across - some are fairly major errors with maps and things, others are just minor discrepancies and inconsistencies. I've listed them all here anyway, though, for the sake of being thorough, if nothing else.
MAP ISSUES
- Shallow Graves: The text consistently refers to the gravesite as being "a few miles" away from Red Larch. Furthermore, the read-aloud text on page 43 states that Feathergale Spire is only two miles away. Yet, going by its location on the Dessarin Valley map, the gravesite looks to be closer to 40 miles from Red Larch and a good 15 miles from the spire.
- Delegation Ambush: On page 37, it states that the ambush site is "only a few miles" from Summit Hall, but its location on the map also looks to be a good 40 miles away.
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Cult Locations: The locations of the surface lairs don't match up with the layout of the subterranean temples. On the surface, the cults are pretty close to the cardinal directions, with the air cult to the west, fire to the north, water to the east, and earth to the south. The temples, however, are arranged in quadrants. This is only really a problem for the earth cult, since it is the only one whose surface lair is said to be directly above its temple. I think the easiest fix would be to move the Sacred Stone Monastery to a place north of Rivergard Keep and east of Scarlet Moon Hall (and maybe move the latter a little more to the west). This would also help explain why the earth cultists were the ones who ambushed the delegation (as they would be closest to the ambush site).
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The Tomb of Moving Stones: The westernmost tunnel leading out of T1 supposedly heads north and ends up at Waelvur's Wagonworks (Red Larch, area 16), which is more or less in the middle of town. The easternmost secret passage leading out of T9 heads south/southeast and yet somehow ends up at the quarry (Red Larch, area 18), which is to the northwest of the wagonworks. One fix would be to swap the tunnels and their end points around, so T1 leads to the quarry, while T9 leads to the wagonworks. Another fix would be to rotate the map around 180 degrees.
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Iceshield Orcs: The text on page 164 states that "the group can reach Dellmon Ranch [from Anderil Farm] in a couple hours." However, looking at the Dessarin Valley map, the two farms look to be around 30 miles apart. That will take more than a couple hours even at a fast pace.
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Dessarin Valley Map Scale: The default scale for the map is 10 miles per hex. When compared to Mike Schley's other maps of nearby regions (the Phandalin area from Lost Mine of Phandelver and the Delimbiyr Vale for Scourge of the Sword Coast), the scale should actually be ~4.25 miles per hex. This would explain why so many things in the text are said to only be "a few miles" or "a few hours" apart. See post #47 of this thread for more.
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Mike Schley's Red Larch DM Map: If you buy the maps of Red Larch from Mike Schley, you'll note that the DM map has some extra keyed locations (#23-25) that don't correspond to anything in the book. The last two are just the quarries, while #23 appears to be another business of some kind.
TEXT ERRORS
- Distance Between Phandalin & Triboar: On page 17, it says the distance is 225 miles. On page 36, it says it's 140 miles. Looking at other maps, it would appear that the latter distance is more correct.
- Shallow Graves - Mirabar Uniform: The description of the dead female warrior's uniform is incorrect. It reads "a red surcoat with a black axe (the symbol of Mirabar's army)", but based on the preceding text for the delegation ambush, this should be a black surcoat with a red axe.
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Feathergale Spire - Pinnacle Spyglass: On page 48, under the "spyglass" entry, the location of Knifepoint Gully is given as "C3". This should be "V3", as it is labeled on the map of the Sighing Valley on page 51.
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Sacred Stone Monastery - Shrine Lever: The text on page 63 says that the lever is in the northeast corner, but the map on the facing page shows it to be in the northwest corner.
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Sacred Stone Monastery - Trapped Stairs: There is no DC listed for Dex save required for anyone standing on the trapped stairs when the lever is pulled.
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Scarlet Moon Hall - Wicker Giant: The last sentence indicates that the wicker giant may start burning "like the scaffolding in area H1". While the scaffolding is mentioned in H1, it also has its own entry (H4), in which the option of having it burn is detailed.
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Scarlet Moon Hall - Upper Entry Chamber (H5): The read-aloud text on page 72 for this area is missing a word: "This warmly lit room has a large [hole] in the wooden floor ..."
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Air Temple - Lighting: Aside from the magic lantern held by the statue of Moradin in A7, there is no mention of any lighting in this temple. There's no "light" section under its general features, nor are there any torches shown on the map, like there are for the other three temples. Neither the read-aloud text nor the descriptions of any individual areas (other than A7) make any mention of whether there is light or not. I believe this is an oversight rather than intentional, as not all the air cultists can see in the dark.
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Water Temple - Drowning Chamber: The text first states that there are nine ghouls, but then goes on to say that there are eight in the pools and four more (for a total of thirteen) lurking in the shadows.
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Earth Temple - East Guardroom: The text initially states that there are five duergar in this room, but then it later refers to only four (two that guard the arrow slit and two that defend the door).
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Earth Temple - Marlos' Flight: The text on page 102 states that Marlos flees to area B23, then makes his getaway via his secret path in B2. B23 is the shrine, so this should read B22, which is Marlos' private sanctum.
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Fire Temple - Fire Temple (E26): The read-aloud text incorrectly indicates that the alcove with the altar is on the west wall. According to the map, it's actually on the east wall.
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Saving the Delegates: On page 115, it states that Teresiel is in area W17 of the Weeping Colossus. Firstly, there is no W17, and secondly, Teresiel is not mentioned anywhere in the Fire Node text. Probably best to put her in area W6 (the fire prison).
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Howling Caves - Oubliette: The text incorrectly states that the shaft leads up to area A19 in the air temple. The correct location is area 18. That being said, in order for area 18 to line up with area N3, the compass on the Howling Caves map needs to be rotated about 45 degrees clockwise, otherwise area N3 would be under area A7 or thereabouts.
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Weeping Colossus - Chamber of Skulls: The text describing the hidden levers on page 144 contains a sentence fragment: "Characters to notice the steady airflow." Not sure what to make of that. Was there meant to be a DC or something?
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Lance Rock Quest: The text on page 151 states that Lance Rock is northwest of Red Larch. This is probably because it isn't obvious at first glance that north is to the right on the Red Larch Surroundings map on the facing page. The Dessarin Valley map shows it to be to the southwest more clearly.
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Curse of the Fire Witch - The Nettlebees: The bullet point describing Watson mistakenly refers to him as Bertram (eg. "Bertram knows about Wiggan and Bertram's new religion ...")
STATBLOCK ERRORS
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Ghald: Ghald is listed as CR 5 on the table on page 189, but his statblock puts him at CR 7.
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Wiggan Nettlebee: Wiggan is listed as CR 3 on the table but CR 2 in his statblock.
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Aerisi Kalinoth: As windvane is a +2 weapon, Aerisi's attack bonus with it should only be +8, and the damage should only be 9 (1d8 + 5).
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Marlos Urnrayle: Given that ironfang is a +2 weapon, Marlos' attack bonus with it should only be +8, while his damage should be 9 (1d8 + 5).
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Vanifer: Vanifer's tiefling racial spells are listed with her sorcerer spells rather than separately as with all other innate spellcasters in 5e.
MINOR DISCREPANCIES
- Maegla Tarnlar: She is stated to be Tethyrian in her description on page 25, but the accompanying image makes her look more Turami.
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Random Encounters: On page 31, the descriptions of the fire cult random encounters refer to non-existent "Eternal Flame warriors". Looking at the list of Fire Cult NPCs in the appendix, it appears the fire cult has no minions below CR 2, unlike the other cults, all of which have a minion of either CR 1/2 or CR 1/8.
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Dead Knight: On page 41, it states that the delegation was transporting the body of a knight for burial at Summit Hall. The body of the knight is nowhere to be found, either at the ambush site, the grave site, or in any of the temples.
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Renwick the Lich: On page 67, it says that Renwick "no longer has any wish to kill". If that is the case, does that mean he's stopped feeding souls to his phylactery? Perhaps he is on the way to becoming a demilich ...
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Air Temple - Music: How can the music from area A4 be heard all the way over in area A6 without also being audible in area A7, or even areas 10, 11, 18, or 19, for that matter? Is there some sort of weird acoustic thing going on there (like Whisper Lake in the Water Temple)?
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Air Temple - Djinni Horn: The text establishes twice that the djinni Ahtayir can only be summoned with the horn once every 101 years and then only to perform a single task for the summoner. Since Aerisi has already summoned him to rebuild the palace, how is it that she is able to summon him with the horn again to have him come to aid her in the throne room? Can you use the horn to summon the djinni again before the 101 years is up if they haven't yet completed the first task you gave them? It isn't clear.
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Water Temple - Sea Creatures: Are we to assume that the water cultists have used magic to enable the giant octopus and Eyon's shark to survive in fresh water?
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Water Temple - Troll Hole: The read-aloud text refers to doors to the north and east. Going by the map, it should indicate a door to the west rather than the east.
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Earth Temple - Mess Hall: A door to the south is mentioned in the read-aloud text, but it does not appear on the map.
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Earth Temple - Shrine of Bleeding Stone: The deep gnome in this room appears to be suffering from some gender confusion. The description identifies the gnome as a female, but proceeds to use both male and female pronouns. Plus, the read-aloud text states that the gnome is bald, whereas female deep gnomes have hair.
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Fire Temple - Fire Cult Sign: In area E1, it states that the cult's hand sign is "hands cupped together upright with one pinky finger upward in the middle", but on page 10, it describes the sign as being "one hand in a fist, thumb up, and laying the other hand over the fist as if to cover the bowl but allow the flame to show."
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Fane of the Eye - Hall of Battle: There are "a dozen dead warriors, clearly of the earth and water cults." Later, the corpses "include air cultists, earth cultists, and a pair of fire cultists." A sentence later, there are clothes for "five air cultist disguises, four earth cultist disguises, and one fire cultist disguise." Perhaps the fire cultists aren't that obvious to spot amongst the corpses and only one of them has a salvageable uniform?
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Earth Node - Portal: The text says nothing about Ironfang being destroyed when the portal implodes (like the relevant sections for the other portals and their respective weapons do). It's not clear if this was intentional or an oversight.
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The Long Road: On page 167, it states that "The route is over the Stone Bridge." However, the Stone Bridge is not on the Long Road and is, in fact, rather out of the way. Also, under the first bandit attack, the text states "Fire attracts the monsters in the next encounter." I can't figure out what this means.
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Oreioth: On page 152, the necromancer is described as having a "shaved head", yet the illustration of him on page 210 shows him with a full head of hair.
I'll post more as I come across them. Feel free to post any you've found, and I'll add them to this list.
Cheers,
Jonathan
p.s. Is anyone else annoyed by Rich's continued use of "lays" instead of "lies"? Eg. "a lost dwarven city lays in ruins ..." and "a platinum goblet ... lays on the moat's floor."
On a somewhat related note, at first I thought it was odd that Aerisi would tolerate the presence of several monsters that prey on her followers, but then I got to the part where it says she views "ordinary mortals as expendable, weak-willed toys ...". Clearly, any cultist who gets himself killed by one of the monsters isn't worthy of his place in the cult.
pukunui wrote:
abs1nth wrote:
To be honest? I really don't pay to much heed to the discrepencies within the text versus images. As an intern Graphic Artist, I can honestly say that past the initial sketching, there is little communication between the Artist and the Writers in a case like a Published Adventure.
Once the Director or Supervisor gives his Okay to an initial sketch, (done on a rough draft from the editorial crew), the team goes ahead with the various polishing ups of the art. During that time, the Editorial Team can go through any number of drafts, which usually results in the artwork not being 100% to the description. It happens.
As a Dungeon Master, you should expect that, that work with it, alter it a little instead of directly reading from the text. Make notes and fix things for your own campaign.
As far as the rest of the stuff you pointed out, I say the same thing. Don't just read it word by word. Correct what you feels needs to be corrected.
When I DM a published adventure, before my group even meets, I spend a good 2 weeks reading the adventure cover to cover numerous times. If I have the time, I run a Multi-NPC Control Party through it, using my experience as a Player and as a DM to see what I feel may need changed. I don't always get the chance to do that, so I toss in a single NPC, scale down the battles appropriately and let him handle the key parts that need corrected.
You're right. Some of the things I've listed are fairly trivial and shouldn't be too difficult to fix. Nevertheless, I feel they are worth noting, especially for new DMs for whom Princes might be their first adventure. (Note, also, that we have had similar threads here on the forums for the Lost Mine and Tyranny of Dragons modules, so I am merely continuing the tradition here ...)
The most glaring issues I've found so far are the positioning discrepancies on the various maps and the issue with Aerisi summoning the djinni in the air temple. Those are things for which we can collectively brainstorm solutions.
pukunui wrote:
MonsterEnvy wrote:
I know you were Puku. I wasn't trying to be a jerk about it.
I hear it a lot though at my LGS. I hear loads of people, (even some employees), complain about the product. "Oh, this part wasn't written right.." "Oh, this description doesn't match the map.."
It makes me want to shake people by the shoulders and say "Published Adventures are a base. They are meant to be used to inspire your players into an adventure. You're meant to mess around with it at certain points. If you don't like it, correct it. You're a damn DM for Oghma's Sake."
As I said, I intern for a company that publishes adventures. As I am under a Non-Disclosure Agreement, I am unable to say specifically which company I work for or anything related to the company's products.
What I can say though, is that there is constantly a lack of communication, (along with a piss-poor editorial staff)--and the result is that some pieces are incorrect. Unfortunately, it can't be blamed on the Play-testers like a certain company tried to do in 2012, because editining happens up till a good week before publishing.
Like I said, I read through the adventure, and I run a single-NPC through it with scaled down battles. It helps.
Echamil wrote:
abs1nth wrote:
Yes, you can lay the goblet on the floor, but it doesn't lay there by itself. It lies there.
pukunui wrote:
One I noticed is that at Feathergale Spire, the NPC you are supposed to save (Savra Belabranta) invites you to a feast there at the tower once you meet her there. It's to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the Feathergale Society. Yet the cultists are only supposed to have been in the keeps and causing problems for about 6 months. Now, this may not be an outright error. Thurl Merosska could have formed the Feathergale Society years ago and only recently joined up with the Aerisi and the other cultists leaders. The thing is, the adventure should have been alot clearer on this. It's not. That's a problem and once editors and readers/playtesters should have pointed out to Sasquatch.
HobbitFan wrote:
It could also be the truth. The society may have been kicking around Waterdeep for most of that time before relocating to the Sumber Hills six months prior.
I've just gotten up to the Howling Caves. I was under the impression that the whole thing would be the "air node", but it sounds like only areas N15-19 are (since N14 is the "Air Node's Doorstep"). Am I reading that correctly?
EDIT: Also, are the PCs expected to close all the nodes even if they've previously defeated the associated prophet/cult? It seems that way, but it isn't entirely clear to me. Perhaps the first time a PC takes hold of one of the elemental weapons (if they get it in the temple or the fane rather than the node), they get a brief vision of the node and feel a slight tug in that direction? If they get the weapon in the node itself, perhaps they feel an urge to toss it into the portal? Otherwise, I'm not entirely sure how to telegraph that to the players.
Chapter 4
Temple of Black Earth - Screaming Statues: The text says Marlos flees to area B23—this should be area B22.
Designbot wrote:
I've got one but I think it's just a typo. On page 48 under Spyglass Knifepoint Gully is given the (area C3) notation when I think that should be V3 (see map page 51). C3 is a room in another area on another map.
HobbitFan wrote:
Earth Temple - East Guardroom: There are five duergar, but it says two are posted at the arrow slits and "the other two" defend the entrance.
Earth Temple - Gatewarden's Quarters: A burrowshark, a Black Earth guard, and 4 cultists occupy the room, at any given time 1d4 cultists are "sacked out in their bunks," and "at least two of the residents are awake even in the middle of the night." Actually, I think this one works out, but it took a while for me to get it.
Temple of Eternal Flame - Fire Temple: The alcove & altar are described as being on the west wall, but drawn on the east wall.
Fane of the Eye - Worm's Stair: It's not clear how the map corresponds to the description of F1 and F2. Is F1 the bottom of the worm, or is the staircase leading northwest supposed to be part of it? Is that ropy thing a spinal column?
Fane of the Eye - Hall of Battle: There are "a dozen dead warriors, clearly of the earth and water cults." Later, the corpses "include air cultists, earth cultists, and a pair of fire cultists." A sentence later, there are clothes for "five air cultist disguises, four earth cultist disguises, and one fire cultist disguise."
One thing I noticed was on page 31, the encounter tables list, under Fire Cult Raiders and Fire Cult War Band, Eternal Flame warriors. This creature is not listed in the book. Someone suggested that it is meant to be the Eternal Flame Guardian, but that leaves a hole, since each cult has a 1/8 to 1/2 CR "minion" creature except for the Eternal Flame, and the Guardian is a CR2 creature, a bit too much to be a minion.
Designbot wrote:
The level of the water in The Plunging Torrents is hard to visualize consistently—for instance, at P4, the Temple Entrance, "the water fills the cavern to within 2 feet of the ceiling," presumably covering the plaza, doors, portico, and pediment. (So the kuo-toa are kneeling on the ground underwater?)
But through the doors, in the Shrine of Yngukulub, the stairs appear to immediately ascend to a landing "20 feet above water level" where a block of stone serves as an altar. Is the interior of the temple 20+ feet taller than the exterior? Adding to the confusion, something like an altar is drawn halfway up the stairs, while the broad platform at the top of the stairs appears empty.
Yeah, that bit was kinda confusing for me too.
moebius359 wrote:
Something that isn't clear to me about the prophets' lair actions is their ability to cast a spell with concentration using their lair action. The text talks about them being unable to use another lair action while concentrating on a lair action spell, but is the idea that this counts as an extra concentration spell? Can they cast another spell requiring concentration at the same time without losing the one they cast as a lair action, or are they still limited to only one concentration spell at a time like normal?
pukunui wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
My only issue with PoA is that the physical product I received is a raging POS. There is glue everywhere, the pages are stuck together and the cover is warped. other than that, its pretty good.
caridhor wrote:
Pukunui, great thread! I haven't gotten to this one yet (we're still in the the Tyranny of Dragons), but I'll definitely reference this later! Maybe we can get some feedback from the authors like we did in the last one. Also, you should put this link in your sig.
Ramzour wrote:
On page 115, Saving the Delegates:
>Teresiel is in the Weeping Colossus (area W17), along with her pouch of magical seeds.
There is no area W17. After scouring all of chapter 5, I don't even see any mention of Teresiel at all.
Methinks a paragraph got cut and never pasted.
Oreioth (pg. 152) is described as having a "shaved head" yet the illustration on pg. 210 shows him with a full head of hair.
GrendelDave wrote:
Some of the descriptions seem like they would make more sense if the scale of the Dessarin Valley map was 1 mile per hex.
I also noticed that the location of the Shallow Graves on the map is very odd. According to page 40, the earth cultists skirmished with air cultists on their way back to Sacred Stone Monastery from the River Dessarin. But the graves are over 10 miles southwest of Sacred Stone Monastery, not on the route at all. There would be no reason for the delegation to be there.
Yes, I noticed that too. The only thing I could think of it to explain it away was that the earth cultists deliberately buried the bodies out of the way to hide the evidence, as it were. If they'd buried them by the ambush site, it would've been too obvious.
Vizeran DeVir: Page 7 says he returned to the Fane of the Eye "a few years ago," created the elemental weapons, and left them on an altar where they were found "within the last few months." But on page 180, the Dark Lady says Vizeran DeVir forged the elemental weapons "centuries ago." He's not mentioned anywhere else (except for a sketch in the Afterword).
Designbot wrote:
My only problem is yet another "Save the world" adventure. We just saved the world from Tiamat, and now we have to save it again? We should have let the dragon queen take over and let her deal with the elemental princes. :D
Webster wrote:
Regarding map scale…
The maps line up great—if the Dessarin Valley hexes represent ~4.25 miles each instead of 10.
On Twitter, Mike Schley indicates that he raised this issue, but the scale was made to WotC's specifications.
I also attempted to map the path of the delegation here—you can see that the path of the earth cult to the monastery doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and Bruldenthar was carrying a whole lot of books!
Cool. Thanks for doing that! That would solve a number of the "a few miles away" issues.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I do recall finding that the scale for the Scourge of the Sword Coast map was a bit off. There wasn't quite enough distance between Waterdeep and Daggerford as there is on older maps. So maybe the scale isn't exactly right on all the maps, not just the Princes map?
I don't think this has been mentioned, and I didn't spot it in the OP which I believe pukunui has been updating with time.
Sacred Stone Monastery - Trapped Stairs: It states that characters on the stairs when the lever is activated must make a dexterity saving throw, though does not specify a DC for said saving throw. Personally, I will probably make it DC 15.
So I've been working to determine what CR Ghald should actually be using the DMG guidelines.
Defensive CR (5)
Ghald's 102 hit points put him at a defensive CR of 3, and he does not have resistances and such to increase his efffective HP. His AC of 15 however, puts him up from a CR 3 to 4. Additionally, he has four saving throw proficiencies, thus increasing his effective AC by 2, and once more bumping up his CR, making his final defensive CR 5.
Offensive CR (7 or 8)
Ghald is capable of dealing oodles of damage, especially in a surprise round. In calculating three rounds worth of damage, I'm assuming Ghald surprises a foe. The wording of his assassinate ability suggests that all attacks that hit are crits, not just one. One of these attacks will also be a sneak attack (a CRAZY first round of damage!).
Round 1
Bite crit: 14 (4d4+4)
Shortsword crit: 18 (4d6+4) (x2)
Sneack Attack crit: 28 (8d6)
Total damage: 78
Rounds 2 and 3
Bite: 9 (2d4+4)
Shortsword: 11 (2d6+4) (x2)
Total Damage: 31
Damage Output = [78 + 2(31)]/3 = 140/3 = 47
This damage output puts Ghald at offensive CR 7. At CR 7, his attack bonus should be roughly +6, and saves he forces on others should be at a DC of roughly 15. His +7 to attack and DC 15 grapple do not alter his offensive CR.
For those wondering, if Ghald gets a sneak attack on two turns, or every turn, his offensive CR increases to 8. This would make his overal CR 6.5, rounding up or down as would be appropriate. Personally, I don't think a sneak attack every round is likely. I suppose it is pretty likely that he will get two sneak attacks Ghald could get a second one off easily if one round is spent grappling (still dealing damage, but much less), but the extra sneak attack damage would be offset by the loss of multiattack damage, so it doesn't really increase his offensive CR.
Total CR (6 or 7)
So Ghald has a defensive CR of 5, and an offensive CR of 7, maybe 8. Making his total CR = (5 + 7)/2 = 6, or (5 + 8)/2 = 7
Does anyone else have thoughts on this? Am I missing something?
Webster wrote:
Devilbass wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Designbot wrote:
Page 105, E5: If the characters slay the ogres ... some of the ogres from area E9 replace them in an hour.
Page 106, E7: If trouble takes the soldiers in this room unaware... (t)he ogres in area E9 are particularly slow to respond.
But, in the entry for E9, there's no mention of ogres being here, just 2 smelly piles of fur that are used as beds by the ogres in E5.
As DM, I'd probably add 2 ogres to E9 (unless things were already going badly for the PCs...=).
They forgot to give Ghald the Sahaghin racial trait of blood frenzy which gives him advantage on attack rolls agaist damaged enemies. In the dmg it says to increase his attack bonus by efectivly plus 4. Check if that makes him match his CR of 7 perfectly.
I posted this in the thread on ENWorld:
The maps aren't even internally consistent within the adventure.
I overlaid the Red Larch Surroundings map over the Dessarin Valley map—if you scale the features to match up, each "2 mile" hex on the Red Larch Surroundings map corresponds to 1/4 of a "10 mile" hex on the Dessarin Valley map. Feathergale Spire should actually be on the Red Larch Surroundings map, near the "H" in "Sumber Hills."
It seems like the simplest way to resolve this is to call the hexes on the Dessarin Valley map 4 miles, and the hexes on the Red Larch Surroundings map 1 mile. I would guess that this is how they started.
(Interestingly, this interpretation puts Feathergale Spire 10 miles from Red Larch, and Scarlet Moon Hall 20 miles from Red Larch, as described on the Red Larch Surroundings map.)
I haven't found a good way to reconcile the temple descriptions with the map.
For the descriptions of the entrances to match up, the ancient city of Tyar-Besil should be about 1/2 mile northeast of Feathergale Spire, about 1/4 mile southwest of Sacred Stone Monastery, "over a mile" southeast of Scarlet Moon Hall, and about 2 miles northwest of Rivergard Keep.
That would put all of the Haunted Keeps in the same hex, close to the river, even at the reduced 4-mile hex scale.
(Actually, now that I consider it, I think there is one way to make the keeps match the descriptions—that would be to make the hexes on the Dessarin Valley map equivalent to 1 mile each (instead of 10 miles). The hexes on the Red Larch map would then represent 1/4 mile each (instead of 2 miles). The winding of the laval tubes, passage, and river would be able to fudge any discrepancies. This is obviously a huge change, and way off of any existing scale, but I wonder if this is closer to what the designers had in mind when they were writing the adventure.)
Yeesh. How annoying.
Don't know whether I'm stupid or not, but in the adventure synopsis on page 6 it says
"The delegation stopped in the tiny village of Beliard, where the members mentioned their intent
to visit sacred dwarven sites before continuing on to Goldenfields. They were last seen at the west end of the Stone Bridge, turning south to proceed overland through the heart of the Sumber Hills." What I don't understand is why they were going west after Beliard; they were, as I've understood it, also on their way to Summit Hall. Also, the ambush site is south from Beliard, which further strenghtens the notion that they were using the Dessarin Road, not going back to use the Larch path....
No, you're not stupid. That's yet another mistake. It makes no sense that they'd go back the way they came. The sacred dwarven sites in the area are more easily reached by going southeast to Summit Hall. (I believe the sites referred to are the ones you can visit in various side treks, such as the Hall of the Hunting Axe).
Just discovered a new error. The DM map you can purchase and download from Mike Schley has extra numbered locations on it. The Red Larch locations only go up to 22 in the book, but Mike's map has 23-25 as well. The last two are the quarries, while #23 looks to be another business of some sort. Obviously if you buy Mike's map to use with your game, you'll have to just ignore those last few numbers.
pukunui wrote:
CCS wrote:
I'm stuck running POTA right now. Personally, I think it's the worst adventure I've seen in a few decades (I'd compare it to Forest Oracle). My review: https://www.facebook.com/groups/tabletoprpgs/search/?query=pota#
My biggest beefs with this scenario, other than it looks like it was haphazardly thrown together late one night and is completely cliche murder-hoboisms at it's best, is that it was $50 and I want my money back ;) I believe it /had/ potential, but it appears to be just another half-attempted 'nuther dungeon crawl. Sure, every adventure is what you make it...I don't buy scenarios to have to "make it." I buy scenarios because they are professionally produced and non-suckworthy.
I'm prepping it by making sarcastic editor-like comments in the margins, in addition to what you all have found.. It has been an absolute satisfaction and might just make prep almost bearable. I think i have 'murder hobo' written 30 times just in the adv hooks alone! Then there is the BLAH BLAH BLAH with big x's drawn through the mind numbing descriptions of how cool the writer thinks I must think the bbegs weapons are and why fire cultists dont like water cultists..oooh yea.... Oh, and the pointless background descriptions that the players will never find out is like an early issue of Dungeon mag's boxed text! Im more akin to rip into any module that has SPOILER ALERT.. bandits..thats right folks..i'll bet youve never seen nameless bandit encounters befor have you! Then you get four mindless dungeon crawls that feel like Halo when you fight your way into a dungeon and then get to do the same one on the way back out, but with different monsters..lemme guess weer in the water element now! Im not quite sure, the suspense is killing me. Afterall, the past five guys we were hired to murder(im lawful good btw), were all something to do with the same element. Ugh. Wow, i paid fifty bucks for this drivel. Thankfully the awfulness gives me inspiration like Mystery Science 3000!
Here's a pic from our most recent session (sure the players are having fun, but I want to gouge out my eyeballs having to deal with this). BTW, there is an ONLINE NPC list spreadsheet for this 'adventure.'
btw, here's my players guide to red larch: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/167876/D%26D%20Stuff/Red%20Larch%20PLAYER%20SUMMARY%202015%20by%20jh.docx
Emirikol wrote: