Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Helaman Nov 22, 2014 17:38:23	This spell not only does a WHOPPING 4d6 at lvl 1 it also grants advantage on the next attack.   Compare to magic missile which is 3d4 + 1.   Am I wrong in thinking the spell is too good?
#2 ClockworkNecktie Nov 22, 2014 17:42:00	Magic Missile never misses, though.
#3 Rhenny Nov 22, 2014 18:20:18	It does have to hit, and it does no damage on a miss.  It is a calculated risk.  Personally, when I play my cleric I don't use it because it is too big a risk/reward type spell.   I'd rather use bless or save the spell slot for healing.
#4 FFSAA Nov 22, 2014 18:06:38	Burning Hands does 3d6 to multiple targets and half on a save.
#5 Ashrym Nov 22, 2014 20:02:16	Dissonant whispers does 3d6 and is easy to set up 3 opportunity attacks on top of it. That's like a 4 attack burst at first level. Burning hands or thunderwave AoE and damage on a save. Faerie fire gives advantage on multiple targets multiple times. Sleep can deny actions and guarantee a critical hit. Etc. I don't see an issue.
#6 Helaman Nov 22, 2014 21:21:43	Thanks all for the perspective.
#7 SilentSin Nov 22, 2014 21:56:06	Also, magic missile is 3d4+3 and can be split among multiple targets.
#8 seti Nov 22, 2014 23:01:26	I don't think 4d6 is that big of a deal in play...It can miss, and it really is averaging about 12 damage. A 1st level fighter with action surge and a great sword gets 2 attack rolls, and could do 2d6+3 or 4d6+6 (assuming 16-17 STR) per encounter.   As peoeple said, the wizard/sorc level 1 AoEs are guarenteed damage, and can hit multiple targets. Also magic missile is guarenteed.   Also, granting advantage for one attack isn't anything...So many class abilities/spells/just circumstances grant advantage all the time.   To me, the potentially over-powered spells are all the DoaM AoE spells, spells that trap or put to sleep/incompasitate and some buffing spells (especially ones that don't require concentration). Melee attacks can miss, only target one enemy within reach, and almost never impose conditions. Tons of spells basically never miss, impose conditions, and target multiple foes. Spells also don't target defense (AC) they require saves. Most enemies have weak saves, at least compared to their AC... That's OP often, IMO...Not getting the ability bonus to damage isn't enough to balance your over-all effect and damage output on the battle field.
#9 Zardnaar Nov 23, 2014 9:14:38	It misses about 30-50% of the time though. Our clerics hardly ever use it any more, they use bless most of the time.
#10 Rhenny Nov 23, 2014 9:08:24	Yeah..the miss chance is so great that it may be a very situationally used spell.   I could see it as a last ditch effort for a cleric that has an inspiration point to spend.   If the party is nearly defeated and there is one foe left and there is nothing left to do, say a prayer and cast the spell using the inspiration to gain advantage.
#11 Zardnaar Nov 23, 2014 9:16:01	4d6 looks impressive but you are spending a daily slot on a spoellm that deals marginally more damage than a great sword. It is radiant damage though so it is useful vs some undead (vampires) and the spell is better if you have bless running or you lack better options. I have seen the spell get used in a 4th level slot though.
#12 mellored Nov 23, 2014 9:59:26	You just need to attack people you know it will hit.
#13 cowleymen Nov 23, 2014 13:21:58	One thing about sleep, color spray, and other spells that inflict conditons with rolls for HP effected, they will rarely work on more then one or two enemies. Even with high rolls, ive never seen either of this spells hit 2 or 3 enemy creatures. This works great for avoiding small fights, but if your up on your BBEG, it might be kinda hard to get even one drop from those spells in 1st level slots. My verdict on this spells, they are great for avoiding annoying low hp minions, and if your working on exploration or social encounters, they open up intersting avenues, I dont think they rate as golden battle spells or anything.
#14 DLfan Nov 23, 2014 14:18:56	Spells in general seem to be very weak compared to martial attacks, especially with monster AC being so bad. Bless is like overkill and really allows feats like precise shot and great weapon master shine. AOE damage is really not needed according to the D&D encounter guidlines as most horde monster will be relatively weak and are easily dispatched by non-magical attacks.  The single target cleric spells such as guiding bolt and inflict wounds really only have a chance at failure when used against high AC targets like hobgoblins or PC's. Otherwise the miss chance is small enough not to matter while the damage tends to be very good. Also, you can crit with these spells where you cannot with spells like magic missile or burning hands. Crits are pretty easy to come by since alot of spells and abilities do grant advantage.  I have seen a PC get crit by a inflict wounds and it dropped him easily.