Anyone else feel that the Rise of Tiamat products are a bit underwhelming? They seem to lack direction as far as I can tell. I'm wondering what other folks think about them? Things seem a bit too free form and it's not really clear to me what all is going on, there is not much urgency. What do you all think?
Really enjoying the freedoms at our end. Some choice in a mod which is nice.
The few 'dragon' minis I have purchased are really good to.
xirr2000 wrote:
Very average haven't run them yet but no sure if I want to.
We just finished HotDQ and I do have some issues with it. In retrospect, a lot of my issues were related to my laziness. I tried to run through the book as I went and didn't do enough reading ahead and thinking about how things all fit together.
Rise of Tiamat however, seems like a much better product so far. I've read through the first few episodes and skimmed the rest and it has a lot of potential.
My biggest gripe right now is the nonsensical way they transition between the books. I mean, it's like they REALLY want the party to end up at the Spine of the World, then RoT starts with a coucil in Waterdeep. Then where is the first trek? The Sea of Moving Ice. Double-You. Tee. Eff.
Yes, It was very unimpressive. Some chapters really did not make alot of sense. The one in particular that stood out as awful was sneaking into the bandit camp. I don't think the designers thought it through about what happens if you have PC's that try to sneak into the camp that are non-human, no-reptile. (dwarves, halflings, gnomes, etc. ) The beginning attack on the city seemed almost overpowering since resting was not much of an option. It just seemed very poorly written compared to the boxed adventure that launched. A very expensive book that did not give clear direction and encounters. If I wanted to fudge the encounters as much as I had to. they could have just included a pamphelt for download with the D&D basic materials o the website instead of wasting resources sending it to print.
Looks like I will be running this adventuire today. Probably going to tweak it.
I thought the first module was alright. The second one was billed as being less railroady, but it felt a bit lazy to me to be honest.
I was also rather irritated at the depiction of Old White Death as your average adult white dragon. First off, while I realize we don't have 12 age categories anymore, I would have erred on the side of making him ancient, especially since he is noted as being especially large for a white. Also, he is especially crafty relative to his kin. Lastly, he is known to be quite a proficient spellcaster, which is, again, ommited from the module. Of course, if Old White Death was represented as it should be then the players would have to be much higher level to fight it, but don't tell me you're gonna put what is probably the mightiest white dragon in Faerun into the module and represent it as weaksauce. 
(*spoilers*)
I ran my group through HotDQ and it cost me 3 players it was so bad. BUT... I think it depends on what sort of adventure you want to play (or run). I'll concede that Tyranny of Dragons is basically a couple of bad adventures -- poor editing, often nonsensical plot (let's drag treasure all over Faerun just to bring it back to the Well of Dragon right over there!), total plot railroad, cliched story, and so on and so on. Having said that, there are those who enjoy a plot-heavy adventure. I personally don't. With adventures like ToD, you can literally narrate the entire plot start to finish before you sit down to play your first session. To me, that's pointless. Why play an adventure when the PCs really can't impact the outcome, other than to succeed or die somewhere in the attempt? I like adventures that empower the PCs to really create their own plot and write their own ending rather than be led by the nose to a pre-determined outcome.
Running HotDQ got me thinking about D&D adventures and the potential future of publishing said. I'm a fan of the older adventures, so after the ToD debacle I switched to running 5e-ports of early 80s adventures, and so far it's a lot of fun. It seems to me that there are three types of adventures. (Whenever you start to categorize things there are almost always a million ways of doing so, so I expect not everyone will agree with my attempt to categorize adventures, nonetheless...)
Adventure Type I: The Dungeon Crawl
These are the truly old-school adventures like Tomb of Horrors and Lost Cavern of Tsojcanth. In the dungeon crawl you don't have much of a story -- whatever story there is is in the background and just explains why the dungeon is there. Once the adventure starts, it's all about monsters and traps with a few puzzles thrown in. Players who like Type I adventures are looking for a challenge and they don't want to mess about with a lot of role-playing and other stuff before they find that challenge.
Adventure Type II: The Sandbox
The Isle of Dread and (much more recently) Murder in Baldur's Gate and good example of Type II adventures. In the "sandbox", you're given an interesting setting and a handful of adventure elements to play with (villains, possible events, potential encounters, quests, et cetera) and turned loose to experience the adventure as you choose. In a true sandbox, there is no plot other than what the players create as they play the adventure. Players who like Type II adventures like things open-ended; they like to choose for themselves what elements of the adventure to explore and pursue, and they like to feel that their actions meaningfully influence the adventure's outcome (in a more significant way than simply killing the big boss monster).
Adventure Type III: The Novel
Tyranny of Dragons fits into this category, as does the Dragonlance series. In "novel" style adventures, a detailed plot is provided with the adventure. Playing the adventure is a process of following that plot to see what the outcome is. The advantage is that a very intricate plot can be woven into the adventure. The drawback is that the plot can override any choices the PCs make, turning the adventure into not much more than a mildly interactive novel. Players who like the Type III adventures like to be told a story and they aren't too bothered if that story sweeps them along without requiring them to make any real choices.
I have a personal bias for Type II adventures myself. My ideal adventure is about 80% Type II, 18% Type I, and 2% Type III. But, I know a lot of people who love Dragonlance and I can see how they enjoy being part of an epic story unfolding. I can also sympathize with the dungeon crawl fans who like the thrill of overcoming immediate mechanical challenges for immediate tangible rewards.
Which brings me to my point: What I was thinking is that it would be cool if WotC started publishing adventures using the category identifiers above (or something similar). The idea is that you could easily see what the style of adventure is and whether it suits your group or not before you commit to purchasing/playing it.
We tried it today and the game crashed and burned after 3/5 PCs died at level 1 in the mill.
I think they are good - with enough prep.
I'm about to start Rise after having ran HotDQ and about a quarter of the way through the first, I realized I needed to prep a lot. I basically rewrote the adventure to give it more congealed direction. It was needed. I've begun doing the same with Rise and have already filled 9 pages with notes and am just reaching the second meeting. That said, it is good for what it is, a skeleton or framework for a DM to work with.
HotDQ is sadly a terribad adventure for the multitude of reasons stated upthread. I was quite looking forward to an awsome adventure path and I am sorely dissapointed by the poor craftsmanship.
xirr2000 wrote:
It's a very old school style adventure, which I don't think appeals to everyone. Which is alright, as not every adventure can appeal to everyone, and there should be some variety in audience. Each major storyline
There are a few problems.
Size seems to have been the big one. It sounds like a lot of the adventures were edited down. Maybe the writers overwrote or maybe WotC changed the size, or some combination of both. We don't know.
Having to write the adventure while the rules were in flux was also likely problematic, with monsters shifting and encounter building rules coming and going and the Battlesystem rules absent in the end.
It has some good ideas and some good "settings" but it is really underdeveloped and illprepared. It has many omissions, many story holes and many things without logical explanation. It should have at least 50% more content to support the story. If someone wants to run has to devote much time in it. However, fortunately, there are some sites (ex. hack&slash) that have done this kind of preparation for you.
It's very barebones and boring. The random encounters for example, where just simple lists of combat encounters. They could've added some spice to those lists. But I had to tweak the adventure a lot and fill many holes to DM it. I even cut out many things I thought were unnecessary (episode 2, I'm looking at you...). Yes, I expect to do some prep, but I had to add so much to make it at least enjoyable and filled with meaningful content. The time I spent to tailor this adventure was more than what I bargained for. I buy modules to save on prep time. I could've made my own adventure from the time I wasted tweaking HotDQ. Which I eventually did. I stopped after episode 3 and did my own thing. What a waste of money. Hopefully the next campaign adventure is better. But I'm not holding my breath.