I am quite puzzled at D&D next introduction of poison the way it is now.
A rogue choosing the assassin path gets proficiency with the poisoner kit and the only poison available in the player handbook can be coated on a weapon, used 10 times before fading, and does 1D4 damage on a target granted it fails a very easy Constitution check. In short, it has a 45% chance of working on a target without any constitution modifier bonus or less than that on any target with a bonus.
Now the funniest is yet to come. This poison vial costs a ridiculous high price of 100 gp and if you ever want to craft one, it wil cost 50 gp and requires 20 days of work !! All this for 10 strikes without any solid guaranty of success.
Also having a DM roll a Constitution check on every strike for a mere D4 damage is really time consuming and not really worth it past level 1.
I am aware that more complete rules about that will come later, hopefully with the DMG in december but the way it is implemented now rather feels like a BIG joke to me. Poison use is still in "alpha" the way it is now. And I don't even understand the point in releasing it that way in the PHB now.
spelley wrote:
It is part of the balance at all costs mentality. Being blunt if you want better poisons play a different ediiton. Our C&C assassin was using +3d6 damage poison/1d12 on a successful save type posions. If people wonder why some of us prefer older ediitons/clones thats why. Some poisons are save or die take 20 dmage on a successful save so your options are death/20.
Thats a real assassin;0.
Zardnaar wrote:
Soltar wrote:
spelley wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Soltar wrote:
I think the cost/variance/etc is pretty good for a poison that is easily (relative term) made by anyone who can make poisons, and better poisons can be (should be?) left to adventuring. For instance, the Giant Spider in the PHB has a higher damage poison than that. I could see collecting that poison to be both a quest and, subsequently, an item for use by a rogue/assassin who collected it or purchased it at a premium.
Even if it's just an interim solution until December I think there's enough poison between the available supplements to provide some small selection as goals. As far as making them goes, though...I haven't decided if I like that idea or not (in terms of replicating a particular creatures poison). Perhaps you could, starting from a small amount of the 'base' poison?
Zardnaar wrote:
Does everyone get to use poison? Why would someone not use poison?
arnwolf666 wrote:
Chiisai_Usagi wrote:
The assassin NPC from the Hoard of the Dragon Queen supplement pdf is using a very powerful poison, which appears to have identical stats to wyvern poison. So it sounds like monster poisons should be fair game. 
Up to the DM how to implement them at this point. I expect rules will be found in the DMG.
arnwolf666 wrote:
Poisons need to remain in the hands of the DM. Adding things such as magic items and poisons in the PHB entitles players to demand these potentially disruptive elements thus taking away some ability of the DM to craft a story.
As a side note I would allow a poisoner to add Prof bonus to basic poison DC.
strider13x wrote:
strider13x wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
And I as DM would allow anything in the PHB, so there's that...
Big difference comparing spellcasting with equipment. Not anyone can cast high level spells. One of our players went Rogue/Mage and took mostly poison-based damage spells to represent his ability. That is a good approach if players want to dedicate themselves to that archetype.
strider13x wrote:
Do spells that deal poison damge and the basic poison grant the poisoned condition? Thats a major debuff right there.
Zardnaar wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
The poisoner's kit allows you to use your proficiency bonus to craft or *use* poisons.
So the DC for using the basic poison should be 10+ proficiency for someone proficient in the kit.
Also, crafting if I recall is 5gp /day based on 1/2 the retail cost. So not 20 but 10 days.
Still steep IMO but less so.
Zardnaar wrote:
I really like poison as different status disorders rather than just damage, ability score damage was cool too. Always damage is just boring to me.
Saelorn wrote:
arnwolf666 wrote:
Soltar wrote:
arnwolf666 wrote:
Soltar wrote:
Just make friends with a durid and have them charm the pants off a Wyvern and milk its tail spike. 7d6 poison damage DC 15 con save for half damage. Put that on a short sword and hit on a surprise back stab as an 9th level assassin for 1d6+5 sword damage +5d6 back stab +7d6 poison and then it is all doubled because of the auto crit from being an assassin. The average damage before crit application is 50, the double it to 100 for the crit. I used 3.5 on a d6 as the average and rounded down. That's pretty darn good damage at 9th level.
Brige wrote:
MechaPilot wrote: