Hi Everyone,
I'm new here, but I'm not new to D&D. I started in 1979, then took a break for about 25 years. Currently playing in a 2nd Edition AD&D game at my FLGS. Purchased Players Handbooks from 3.5, 4 and 5th editions. Looking forward to starting a 5th Ed campaign.
I have a vision. I'd love to see RPGs have a second renaissance. I posted a manifesto on my blog today. Check it out here. Comments welcome.
Mitch
CCS wrote:
He is more or less right about a 2nd renaissance as we have only had 1 so far after the oringal golden age. Bit early to call it atm.
You're a little late to the party, man. RPGs and geekdom in general are already in vogue. It's cool to be a nerd now, everyone has heard of D&D, and many people from outside of nerd culture are trying it. D&D is still the gateway RPG like it's always been - it's the most famous and therefore the one most people try first, but that often gets them to experiment with other RPGs. So the good news is, your vision has already come true.
RPGs in general seem to have boom and bust periods. The 90's had the explosion of non-TSR games from companines such as White Wolf (The World of Darkness lines) and Pinnacle Entertainment Group (Deadlands), then settled down after the release of Magic: The Gathering and the TCG flood that followed it. Then D&D 3rd Edition and the OGL happened, spurring a new burst of products, until the market became a bit saturated. 3rd Edition D&D matured into 3.5, strong companies like Green Ronin (makers of many quality OGL products, including Mutants & Masterminds) grew up, Pinnacle released Savage Worlds, and theorists on The Forge and other webisties began comparing notes and really digging in to what RPGs were as a game. Then 4e happened, Pathfinder was created by Piazo in response, and the industry suffered a massive split. A cold war between WotC and Piazo followed, while in the shadows of giants a ton of Indie games (Dogs in the Vineyard, Mouse Guard, and party games like Fiasco) and a ton of games that were throwbacks to older-school D&D (The Old School Reinissance) began to get popular. Systems with ease-of-play began to grow in popularity, especially with the growth of Kickstarter as a funding source for smaller games. Fate got a relaunch, Savage Worlds got a deluxe edition, and WotC decided to thoroughly deconstruct what it was that made D&D appealing to its fans in order to produce an edition that could "win back the crowd." We do, in fact, seem to be in another boom period for RPGs
Hi again. Thanks for the comments... this is an interesting discussion.
I'm sure you all figured this out already, but I should have clarified something before inviting you to read the blog post. It was written for people who don't consider themselves to be gamers. I would agree that the gaming community has grown, but I also think the broader culture still considers role-playing gamers to be a unique subculture, and often, a subculture with which they don't identify.
The immediate impetus for writing the post was a couple of conversations I had with two people from two different social circles (one professional and one social). One loves to play Settlers of Catan, and the other played Cards Against Humanity at a party and loved it. They don't consider themselves to be "gamers," and importantly, neither had any understanding of D&D or role-playing games in general. In fact, they had misconceptions of how D&D is played. Yet, they have both been to murder mystery dinner parties and enjoyed them. I labeled that "Live Action Role Playing," and they both got it. When I tried to explain how tabletop role playing is similar and different however, they seemed to get confused. They talked about how complicated the rules are, and how you have to pretend you're a demon to play. They were clueless.
Those of us who have played get it. And I get that there's already been a renaissance. But my vision is considerably bigger than what's occurred to date. Most of the published role playing games seem to have always been around medieval fantasy or sci-fi (or "speculative fiction" if you're so inclined). Of course there have been some exceptions, but I think these genres get in the way for a lot of people. Role-playing gaming is (or should be) genre agnostic. Even Equestria could be a setting for a role-playing game, for crying out loud. I think the role-playing game could have a much bigger renaissance IF the general public could get past some ridiculous perceived barriers. Think about it... we could have publishers actually competing for gamers' dollars. We could have more than just a handful of publishers working on source material. Homebrew writers could get a broader audience for their work, perhaps even making a living doing what they love (while the rest of us benefit too).
But to get past these barriers, I think we as gamers need to demystify the hobby. It's not a weird hobby, and at the end of the day, the core rules really aren't that complicated. A gaming group can bring someone totally new up to speed in an hour or less. Sure, they won't have memorized every rule for their character's race and class, but they'll be able to participate fully in the adventure and contribute to the group's success or failure. As they immerse themselves in the game more deeply, there's always time for expanded rules.
Expanding the perceived relevance of role-playing games benefits all of us. It's good for gamers and it's good for the gaming industry. I see three things being necessary for a true renaissance to occur:
1. passionate and inspired writers create fantasy worlds outside of the medieval and sci-fi settings that currently exist in commercially available role-playing games, focused on popular fiction genres
2. core rules necessary for a totally new player to join an existing game are published in short, free pdfs or inexpensive paperbacks available at Amazon and Barnes & Noble, with the rules focused on role-playing and straightforward mechanics
3. we gamers invite non-gamer friends and family members to try it out, even hosting short 2-hour Encounters-like sessions that are heavy on the role-playing and light on the rules.
Thoughts?
mgready wrote:
I'll agree that the influence of computer games has been helpful when newcomers to the hobby are involved. I recently had a new player join our group, having never had any experiance whatsoever with D&D. I described it as "like Skyrim or Dragon Age," which he had played before. That touchstone helped demystify the process a lot.
1. passionate and inspired writers create fantasy worlds outside of the medieval and sci-fi settings that currently exist in commercially available role-playing games, focused on popular fiction genres2. core rules necessary for a totally new player to join an existing game are published in short, free pdfs or inexpensive paperbacks available at Amazon and Barnes & Noble, with the rules focused on role-playing and straightforward mechanics
3. we gamers invite non-gamer friends and family members to try it out, even hosting short 2-hour Encounters-like sessions that are heavy on the role-playing and light on the rules.
mgready wrote:
There are certainly still a lot of lingering misconceptions about RPGs, a lot of th coming from negative attention the hobby got during the satanic panic, and with most media portrayal being in-jokes. If you play D&D and watch any sitcom's obligatory D&D episode (Bug Bang Theory and Community in particular come to mind), you understand the parody elements. But if that's the only exposure you've had to D&D, you're bound to be a little confused about the whole thing. That said, in my experience, most people are curious enough to give it a try, especially when the biggest barrier to entry - the perceived complexity - is removed. Explain to someone "all you have to do is tell me what you want your character to do. I'll handle all the rules stuff and tell you what happens" and they're usually very open to playing a game just to see what it's like, and that's how you can get them hooked.
Devils Advocate, great insight there. I do hope that the streamlined rules and emphasis on role playing helps draw a lot of new people into the game. And I really like how you phrased the point about communicating how easy it is to play: "all you have to do is tell me what you want your character to do. I'll handle all the rules stuff and tell you what happens." Brilliant, simple.
I was wrong about what I said in my blog post though. I was apparently a bit naive about the vast array of RPG offerings outside of the medieval and sci-fi fantasy genres. As The_Stray mentions, there are many other RPGs beyond these genres. The_Stray, thanks for pointing this out. It's encouraging to know that there are great writers developing compelling RPG material in other genres too. I'll write an update to the post in the next couple of days to correct that.
JoeBurgos, thanks for the kind words. Feel free to share anything from my manifesto with anyone you wish. I haven't DM'ed a game since B2 Keep on the Borderlands (in 1980, I think). So I'm probably not even capable of starting my own 5e campaign at this point. I'm still getting my feet wet again; as I mentioned in my post, I just joined a gaming group at my FLGS that's playing a 2e campaign. I had to go to eBay to buy a copy of the 2e PHB (and the Complete Book of Elves, and some Ral Partha minis, and a couple sets of dice, and some graph paper, and...). The only 5e game going on at my FLGS is the Wed night Encounters sessions. I'm disinclined to participate in that though, because I think Encounters is intended to be a very short session centered around a single combat encounter. I enjoy combat as much as the next elf fighter, but I like the problem solving and storyline elements even more, and from what I can tell, these aren't a central feature of Wednesday night D&D Encounters. I wish I could find a small (5-7 person) group of players starting a long-term 5e campaign near where I live (Central Pennsylvania). I've been reading the 5e PHB, and I'm getting a little giddy. After I find my feet, I'd love to try DMing again if I can build up enough courage. If/when that happens, I'll almost certainly use a published campaign world, though I'll definitely tweak it to make it my own.
I've been following a thread on this forum called "Amazing Edition!" I hadn't read that thread before I posted, but I wish I had. I'm sensing a palpable excitement around the fifth edition of the game that people say has been missing since the 1st or 2nd edition. I wouldn't know- I've been away for a couple of decades. Shame on me, that's my problem. I've been missing out on a lot of fun, and I can't even participate in edition wars on Internet forums. But I will say that I get a sense that some positive momentum is building, and it feels like a great time to come back to the game. This is fun.
mgready wrote:
Thanks Devils Advocate. Great article by the Angry DM- his argument is very cogent. I agree very much with his thesis that WotC is missing opportunity left and right. In my professional life, I am a market researcher and brand consultant (and have been for more than 15 years). I actually do have a point of view about how WotC has handled the marketing of D&D, but that's not relevant for a players forum.
In the comments section of that post, I also came across a Wordpress blog called SimpleDND. I think Alan Bollinger is on to something here, and it's very aligned with the Angry DM's argument. If the Starter Set was written this way, I think it would be a much more effective gateway to the game (and to role-playing games in general). Research has shown that offering good, limited options facilitates consumer engagement. I think simplifying the game and focusing more on HOW to play (rather than the rules) would be more valuable to new players. There's always opportunity to expand the ruleset with additional options (covered in the PHB, DMG and MM)
The Angry DM's point about the value of good Dungeon Masters to growth of the game is spot on too. Anything we can do to encourage new DMs to take on the challenge (and support them when they do) will be good for the game (and ultimately for all of us).
I'm surprised by this reaction, but now I'm actually considering taking on this challenge myself. I'm not even an expert player by any means, but I did DM a game back about 25 years ago, and I love storytelling. Maybe I could do this. Still feeling a little overwhelmed though.
There's no shortage of DM advice out there (the trouble is sorting out the good advice from the bad advice, but that's not too hard if you have some idea of what you think a good DM looks like). I'd definitely recommend giving it a shot, there's nothing quite like getting to lead other people on an adventure through a world of your own creation. And don't be discouraged if you struggle a bit at first. No DM is perfect their first time.
Hi again, OP here. I changed my Screen Name at Wizards.com.
I wrote an entire post here, but decided that it had become off-topic for this thread, so I put it in a different area of the forum. I'm linking to it here though, since it came out of this discussion.
I'd really appreciate your perspective on this. It's basically seeking input on a path to getting started as a new DM. Devil's-Advocate, thanks especially for pointing me to the Angry DM. I really like his writing.
Mitch
mgready wrote:
raven1979 wrote:
I think were in an rpg renaissance right now. I think iti started about the time 4e was released. Not that 4e had anything to do it. I think WoW introduced a lot of young gamers to fantasy rpg, and many of them moved on to DnD and other table top rpgs a few years back. I was teaching a lot of new players in 2008. Many are still playing rpgs. 10 years ago I new about a dozen table top rpg gamers on our little island. Now I know about 50 or so gamers playing all types of table top rpgs on our little island. I know of a few that make up and run thier own custom rpg systems. I really thought WoW would be the end, but the opposite happened. it seems a lot more accessable and acceptable to play table top rpgs.
I blame reality.