Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 edwin_su May 18, 2015 13:20:28	In this month's Sage Advice, @JeremyECrawford offers great advice on using feats   http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats
#2 mellored May 18, 2015 13:34:42	It means Crossbow Expert makes it possible to fire a hand crossbow more than once with a feature like Extra Attack, provided that you have enough ammunition and you have a hand free to load it for each shot.
#3 Stormborn20 May 18, 2015 13:43:07	Glad to see the rulings on crossbow expert make sense.
#4 Mephi1234 May 18, 2015 13:45:48	Welp.  No more duel wielding crossbow sharpshooters.
#5 Bloodscythe May 18, 2015 14:05:39	Glad to finally see clarification, especially on crossbow expert.
(Reply to #4) pauln6	Mephi1234 wrote:
#7 Mirtek May 18, 2015 15:57:59	pauln6 wrote:
(Reply to #6) Macv12	pauln6 wrote:
(Reply to #8) LordTwig	Macv12 wrote:
#10 pukunui May 18, 2015 17:24:11	Jeremy just tweeted this regarding Lucky: "You pick the d20 but have disadvantage, so things like Sneak Attack that are blocked by disadvantage are blocked."
#11 mellored May 18, 2015 17:44:40	i see no reason why you would not allow dual crossbows. same damage as a single crossbow, just with more style.
#12 Orethalion May 18, 2015 17:45:54	mellored wrote:
#13 mellored May 18, 2015 17:50:01	yea, i just don't see "realism" as an excuse in a game where you throw lighing bolts from your fingers at dragons, and can survive falls at terminal velocity. but each to his own.
#14 Orethalion May 18, 2015 18:02:02	mellored wrote:
#15 durntaur May 18, 2015 19:53:33	Orethalion wrote:
#16 MechaPilot May 18, 2015 20:12:03	Orethalion wrote:
#17 lawrencehoy May 18, 2015 21:03:13	MechaPilot wrote:
#18 lawrencehoy May 18, 2015 21:47:41	We should probably combine the two threads on this topic; by just linking this one to the one in the Rules Questions forum (which is what Sage Advice is all about).   That thread can be found here.
#19 Orethalion May 18, 2015 21:52:11	MechaPilot wrote:
(Reply to #13) arnwolf666	mellored wrote:
#21 MechaPilot May 18, 2015 22:03:25	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #21) arnwolf666	MechaPilot wrote:
#23 MechaPilot May 18, 2015 22:17:54	arnwolf666 wrote:
#24 Orethalion May 18, 2015 22:36:07	MechaPilot wrote:
#25 MechaPilot May 18, 2015 22:46:09	Orethalion wrote:
#26 Orethalion May 18, 2015 23:14:06	MechaPilot wrote:
#27 Lady_Auralla May 18, 2015 23:34:35	Due to "realism" nearly always causing a loss in ability for non casters sometimes it needs to take a back seat to balance and story. Fiction be it movie or book is full of non casters doing things outside the bounds of realism for the sake of story, hlighting the heroes/villians abilities, style/aesthetics, etc.
#28 Dark_Kain May 19, 2015 1:01:34	Realism here does not detract anything from non casters, though, since they get all their attacks plus bonus attack anyway.   Anyway I really dislike that Lucky ruling, at the end of the day you are basically encouraged in looking for disadvantage in your most important actions to get the increased chance of success from the "pick between three dices" deal. Could work if I'm playing a Terry Pratchett styled parody, but not for a serious story.
(Reply to #13) Jenks	mellored wrote:
#30 XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek May 19, 2015 3:32:26	So what about someone fashioning a hand crossbow on each wrist? This would free up each hand.
(Reply to #28) XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek	Dark_Kain wrote:
#32 lawrencehoy May 19, 2015 3:56:37	MechaPilot wrote:
#33 yakuba May 19, 2015 4:24:50	XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
#34 Grazel May 19, 2015 4:34:56	XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
#35 FFSAA May 19, 2015 4:36:44	mellored wrote:
#36 FFSAA May 19, 2015 4:40:25	Dark_Kain wrote:
#37 Bloodscythe May 19, 2015 4:59:29	haha, we now have quibbling about the rules clarifications?  Who cares if the CE rule is based in "realism" or not.  It's the intent of the rule.  I'm not sure why anyone thinks dual wielding hand crossbows is "cool", but it's now, officially, not supported by the rules.  Dual wielding two greatswords might be cool too, or being able to wield a longsword, wear a shield, have a wand in your shield-hand, and being able to drink potions by using your feet... also not supported by the rules.  Move on.   The point is, if you want it at your table, you always could have had it at your table.  It's definitely a houserule though.
#38 mellored May 19, 2015 5:06:48	Orethalion wrote:
#39 FFSAA May 19, 2015 5:08:36	Bloodscythe wrote:
#40 mellored May 19, 2015 5:12:58	FFSAA wrote:
#41 FFSAA May 19, 2015 5:28:52	mellored wrote:
#42 mellored May 19, 2015 5:31:04	FFSAA wrote:
#43 Dark_Kain May 19, 2015 5:38:34	FFSAA wrote:
#44 FFSAA May 19, 2015 6:13:07	Dark_Kain wrote:
#45 FFSAA May 19, 2015 6:21:24	mellored wrote:
#46 mellored May 19, 2015 6:23:26	FFSAA wrote:
#47 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 6:33:25	I rule that an improperly donned shield (not spending an Action, just free object interaction) requires expending your one Reaction to keep "active" and provides only a +1 AC bonus.   Also, in related news, it is not surprising to me in the least when certain people, who refuse to ever play 5e, continually get the rules all wrong. Shouldn't surprise anyone else either.
(Reply to #44) SleepsInTraffic	FFSAA wrote:
#49 FFSAA May 19, 2015 6:54:36	SleepsInTraffic wrote:
#50 Orethalion May 19, 2015 6:54:42	lawrencehoy wrote:
#51 Mistwell May 19, 2015 7:20:39	XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
(Reply to #44) Dark_Kain	FFSAA wrote:
#53 Orethalion May 19, 2015 6:57:05	mellored wrote:
#54 FFSAA May 19, 2015 7:03:46	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#55 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 7:06:29	FFSAA wrote:
(Reply to #49) SleepsInTraffic	FFSAA wrote:
#57 Mistwell May 19, 2015 7:35:57	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #41) OoftaMeg	FFSAA wrote:
(Reply to #49) OoftaMeg	FFSAA wrote:
#60 jaelis May 19, 2015 8:26:17	Besides, Crawford is not wrong about Lucky, he's just reading the feat text literally. The only argument was whether you were supposed to read it literally or not... now we know.
(Reply to #51) Dark_Kain	Mistwell wrote:
#62 durntaur May 19, 2015 8:45:02	yakuba wrote:
#63 durntaur May 19, 2015 8:57:32	FFSAA wrote:
#64 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 8:59:50	durntaur wrote:
#65 DemoMonkey May 19, 2015 9:23:10	I sure am glad they clarified these points for us so we can stop bickering about them.
#66 edwin_su May 19, 2015 9:24:26	MechaPilot wrote:
#67 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 9:59:29	Orethalion wrote:
#68 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 9:37:04	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#69 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 9:43:00	MechaPilot wrote:
#70 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 9:42:35	edwin_su wrote:
(Reply to #67) OoftaMeg	DaomSlayer wrote:
(Reply to #49) CCS	FFSAA wrote:
#73 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 9:46:24	DaomSlayer wrote:
#74 Orethalion May 19, 2015 9:51:01	OoftaMeg wrote:
#75 LordTwig May 19, 2015 9:48:27	Well I must say that after reading some of the posts explaining the interaction of disadvantage and the Lucky feat I have changed my mind on the ruling and will run it the way the Sage advises.   The fact that you choose to use Lucky after the initial disadvantage roll changes the probabilities and I do like the "trusting to fate" or "mishaps inadvertently working in your favor" tropes. So, Well argued!
#76 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 9:49:39	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#77 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 9:49:43	LordTwig wrote:
#78 Orethalion May 19, 2015 9:49:55	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#79 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 9:57:12	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#80 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 9:57:16	DaomSlayer wrote:
#81 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 10:01:58	Orethalion wrote:
#82 Orethalion May 19, 2015 10:05:25	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#83 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 10:07:00	DaomSlayer wrote:
#84 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 10:24:26	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#85 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 10:14:07	Orethalion wrote:
#86 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 10:22:31	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#87 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 10:18:52	DaomSlayer wrote:
#88 Orethalion May 19, 2015 10:22:32	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#89 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 10:22:25	DaomSlayer wrote:
#90 Orethalion May 19, 2015 10:23:45	DaomSlayer wrote:
#91 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 10:23:50	Orethalion wrote:
#92 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 10:29:56	Orethalion wrote:
#93 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 10:37:41	DaomSlayer wrote:
#94 bawylie May 19, 2015 10:42:00	Well if "that's that" ...   Unverified claims win arguments. Period.
#95 SleepsInTraffic May 19, 2015 11:01:58	It kindof seems like the AL Admins pretty much always come down on the side of removing anything that could possibly cause some kind of unrest on, or greatly differentiated variety of experience between, tables. Basically if you ever see a debate about a thing maybe being unbalanced (PC races with fly speeds), or inherently problematic (the entirety of the CE Alignment), you can be sure AL will ban the crap out of it as fast as possible. I personally have no problem with that I can entirely understand why they do this. Their concern isn't balancing the game, or providing a great amount of variance in outcomes between tables. Their concern, as is always the case with organized play, is to keep the game moving forward smoothly and as free from argument, and table drama as is possible. However I'll pretty much never accept that they ban based on balance, or that a ban by them in any way speaks about the balance of an option. They ban based on a completely different set of criterion that is less concerned with balance, and way more concerned with making sure play doesn't get disrupted. Don't forget these are the same people that refer to ever including allies in aoe spells, even at their behest, a grey area in the realm of allowability (due the strict no PvP rules it is frowned upon to include the fighter in your fireball, no matter how much they can handle what the fireball is dishing out). So continually saying AL banned it so that means it is unbalanced rings hollow because by that reasoning I could say the Chaotic Evil alignment is unbalanced.
(Reply to #70) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#97 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 11:14:45	Bloodscythe wrote:
#98 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 11:21:08	For the record, in our current campaign in which we just played last night, we have a player with a 10th-level arcane trickster using two hand crossbows. He has a blast being a pirate-y 2-fisted shooter. The last thing I'd ever do is try to step on his fun, when it serves no purpose other than "pointing out a technicality". Who cares if he's using one crossbow or two, if it doesn't change the end result. I don't. His having fun, playing the character he envisions, is far more important in this case.
(Reply to #97) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #98) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#101 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 11:29:37	Bloodscythe wrote:
#102 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 11:31:40	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #102) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#104 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 11:38:25	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#105 bawylie May 19, 2015 11:40:13	The rules prioritize a fun, memorable time over all other considerations.
#106 durntaur May 19, 2015 11:40:20	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #103) OoftaMeg	Bloodscythe wrote:
#108 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 11:43:17	Bloodscythe wrote:
#109 durntaur May 19, 2015 11:44:16	DaomSlayer wrote:
#110 Orethalion May 19, 2015 11:45:05	DaomSlayer wrote:
#111 Orethalion May 19, 2015 11:46:44	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#112 DaomSlayer May 19, 2015 11:49:15	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #38) arnwolf666	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #109) Bloodscythe	durntaur wrote:
#115 MechaPilot May 19, 2015 11:53:32	lawrencehoy wrote:
#116 Orethalion May 19, 2015 11:58:21	arnwolf666 wrote:
#117 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 12:00:16	RAW? Really? Brilliant. Heard of feats like Dual Wielder and War Caster? Or interacting with objects?
#118 MechaPilot May 19, 2015 12:02:12	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #116) arnwolf666	Orethalion wrote:
#120 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 12:05:16	DaomSlayer wrote:
#121 MechaPilot May 19, 2015 19:06:26	DaomSlayer wrote:
(Reply to #120) arnwolf666	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#123 mellored May 19, 2015 12:22:44	DaomSlayer wrote:
#124 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 12:20:56	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #120) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#126 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 12:29:26	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #124) arnwolf666	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#128 mellored May 19, 2015 12:30:22	DM runs the game.   If players don't like it, they can leave.   If everyone leaves, the DM won't have a game to run.
(Reply to #122) Bloodscythe	arnwolf666 wrote:
#130 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 12:33:45	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #128) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#132 durntaur May 19, 2015 12:38:51	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#133 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 12:37:33	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #130) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #133) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#136 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 12:46:24	Bloodscythe wrote:
#137 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 12:45:41	OoftaMeg wrote:
#138 durntaur May 19, 2015 12:47:41	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#139 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 12:48:22	durntaur wrote:
#140 mellored May 19, 2015 12:49:05	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #137) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #132) Bloodscythe	durntaur wrote:
#143 arnwolf666 May 19, 2015 12:58:48	I've found it much harder to find a DM than players.
#144 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 13:02:32	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #143) AaronOfBarbaria	arnwolf666 wrote:
#146 Orethalion May 19, 2015 13:07:50	MechaPilot wrote:
(Reply to #136) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#148 Orethalion May 19, 2015 13:10:03	arnwolf666 wrote:
#149 mellored May 19, 2015 13:14:10	Orethalion wrote:
#150 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 13:16:05	Orethalion wrote:
#151 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 13:17:55	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #144) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#153 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 13:22:51	Bloodscythe wrote:
#154 Orethalion May 19, 2015 13:22:59	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #142) fenix99	Bloodscythe wrote:
#156 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 13:25:22	Orethalion wrote:
#157 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 13:27:03	fenix99 wrote:
#158 durntaur May 19, 2015 13:30:24	fenix99 wrote:
#159 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 13:33:47	durntaur wrote:
#160 Orethalion May 19, 2015 13:34:05	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#161 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 13:51:14	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #153) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#163 Orethalion May 19, 2015 13:53:40	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#164 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 13:56:57	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #162) OoftaMeg	Bloodscythe wrote:
#166 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 13:59:58	Bloodscythe wrote:
#167 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 14:02:11	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #166) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #166) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #167) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#171 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 14:10:15	Orethalion wrote:
#172 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 14:15:03	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #167) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#174 Orethalion May 19, 2015 14:20:28	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#175 iserith May 19, 2015 14:23:56	The way I see it, the rules of the game serve the DM and are used as needed to help the group achieve the goals of play. The rules come into play as he or she decides. Not using a rule in the book is not the same as changing it or changing the game. There's this belief out there that if the DM doesn't "follow" the rules as written, then the DM is "house ruling" or the like. Flumph that noise. I don't follow rules. I'm the Dungeon Master - the rules come into play at my pleasure. If I decide that the outcome of a character dual-wielding crossbows totally works or totally causes the character to shoot him or herself in the buttocks, then that's my prerogative as Master of Worlds, Master of Adventures, and Master of Rules. I only need to access the rules if I'm not sure what the outcome will be.   And what makes me not a tyrant despite all this power over what happens in a game of D&D is that I listen to my players, try not to be a jerk, and always strive to achieve the goals of play.
#176 OoftaMeg May 19, 2015 14:27:58	Do we need to reread the basic rules?  Page 2 of the basic rules   One player, however, takes on the role of the Dungeon Master (DM), the game’s lead storyteller and referee.   Is the DM the only storyteller?  No.  Is the DM the only one that can discuss rules?  Of course not.     But someone has to make a final decision about how things work.  It's the DM.  It's one of their roles.
(Reply to #172) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#178 Bloodscythe May 19, 2015 14:54:44	I would say, the primary reason I wouldn't allow an arcane trickster to dual wield hand crossbows, aside from it being against the rules, is because since I do require things like verbal, somatic, and material components for spells at my table, I know an arcane trickster with a free hand can both do somatic gestures and get material components.    If a character doesn't have a free hand and is trying to cast a spell, I now need to know if the spell requires somatic and/or material components, and can the character manage to do it.  If they have a free hand, it's a nonissue.  And since every attack can be made with a single hand crossbow, dual wielding hand crossbows mechanically serves no purpose other than possibly delaying the game while I consider if casting the spell is something the character can actually accomplish with weapons in both hands.   Or the player can just not be a turd and use a single hand crossbow.    Slowing down the game should be avoided at all costs.  As a DM, if you don't want to slow the game down, you can either just do away with components for spells completely, allow characters to behave as if they have however many hands are required to do whatever it is they're attempting to do, or simply tell the players that dual wielding hand crossbows is out.  As a player, you can use a single hand crossbow.   If you really want to dual wield hand crossbows, play diablo.
#179 mellored May 19, 2015 15:20:22	Orethalion wrote:
#180 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 16:15:15	Bloodscythe wrote:
#181 MechaPilot May 19, 2015 19:19:43	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #80) Azzy1974	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#183 Azzy1974 May 19, 2015 20:32:31	Well, that escalated quickly.
#184 ChrisCarlson May 19, 2015 20:46:27	Azzy1974 wrote:
#185 lawrencehoy May 19, 2015 22:31:46	Bloodscythe wrote:
#186 lawrencehoy May 19, 2015 22:46:36	MechaPilot wrote:
#187 Lady_Auralla May 19, 2015 23:43:50	I just have one issue with the CE ruling. Which is that with loading being a part of the attacking action CE specifically states that you can attack as a bonus action with a LOADED  crossbow. This implies that the crossbow must already be loaded prior to the bonus action and if your main action was to load and fire the crossbow you start the bonus action with an unloaded crossbow. Personally I dont care if someone fires off an extra Hand Crossbow shot but if they are going to put rules under the microscope maybe they should do so fully.   Note: This is discounting extra pre loaded Crossbows and is talking about firing a single crossbow twice in one round.
(Reply to #187) XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek	Lady_Auralla wrote:
#189 Lady_Auralla May 19, 2015 23:48:39	I am all for empowering martial characters to do cool stuff gods know they need it, but please write the mechanics in a way that allows them to do this instead of writing them in a way that disallows the intended action.
#190 lawrencehoy May 19, 2015 23:55:39	Lady_Auralla wrote:
#191 Lady_Auralla May 20, 2015 0:01:14	The statement was that the feat allowed for firing a hand crossbow twice, but the second shot must already be loaded to shoot the handcrossbow a second  time as a bonus action. Last time I checked firing a crossbow leaves it unloaded. The in depth look stated that the loading was part of the action of firing. As the crossbow is unloaded there can be no bonus action shot as the feat specifically states that the crossbow must be loaded.
(Reply to #186) DarkSphinx	lawrencehoy wrote:
#193 Orethalion May 20, 2015 3:32:08	lawrencehoy wrote:
#194 lawrencehoy May 20, 2015 3:54:32	Orethalion wrote:
#195 Rya.Reisender May 20, 2015 4:14:11	Lady_Auralla wrote:
#196 mellored May 20, 2015 5:11:57	Nothing about the bonus action attack prevents you from loading the crossbow as part of the attack.
(Reply to #180) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#198 mellored May 20, 2015 5:16:05	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #191) Bloodscythe	Lady_Auralla wrote:
(Reply to #198) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#201 mellored May 20, 2015 5:32:02	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #201) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#203 mellored May 20, 2015 6:16:08	Bloodscythe wrote:
#204 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 6:48:03	You missed the particular part of your quote I was calling out earlier. I'll bold it this time to show why you are being a tool to your players:   Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #204) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #203) OoftaMeg	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #203) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#208 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 7:28:19	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #208) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#210 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 7:33:27	Bloodscythe wrote:
#211 mellored May 20, 2015 7:33:53	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #211) OoftaMeg	mellored wrote:
#213 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 7:39:22	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #213) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#215 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 7:42:06	OoftaMeg wrote:
#216 Orethalion May 20, 2015 7:44:06	lawrencehoy wrote:
#217 mellored May 20, 2015 7:45:02	OoftaMeg wrote:
#218 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 7:46:14	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #215) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#220 Orethalion May 20, 2015 7:52:37	mellored wrote:
#221 mellored May 20, 2015 8:02:51	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #218) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#223 Orethalion May 20, 2015 8:01:20	mellored wrote:
#224 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 8:04:04	OoftaMeg wrote:
#225 Mistwell May 20, 2015 8:05:08	Saw this at ENWorld (sorry if it was also posted here and I missed it - have not had a chance to read the full thread yet):   kerleth;6621282 wrote:
#226 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 8:06:04	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #210) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#228 mellored May 20, 2015 8:07:41	Orethalion wrote:
#229 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 8:09:26	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #224) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#231 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 8:12:51	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #231) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#233 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 8:27:31	OoftaMeg wrote:
#234 Orethalion May 20, 2015 8:34:40	Mistwell wrote:
#235 Bloodscythe May 20, 2015 9:18:00	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#236 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 9:24:27	Round 1: I fire my two loaded hand crossbows then duck behind the tree. Round 2: I reload my crossbows. Round 3: I step out of cover firing my two loaded crossbows again before retreating back to cover. Round 4: I reload my crossbows again. ...   DM: Why are you choosing to suck? You should just use one crossbow. It's "better". Player: But I like the idea of a 2-fisted "pistolero" style shooter. I think it's cool. DM: But... but... my strict ruling is making you suck... Player: Yes it is. But I'm having fun playing my character so what exactly is your problem?
#237 OoftaMeg May 20, 2015 9:36:58	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#238 Orethalion May 20, 2015 9:44:08	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #236) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#240 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 9:47:14	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #239) Satyrn	Bloodscythe wrote:
#242 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 9:55:16	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #240) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #241) Bloodscythe	Satyrn wrote:
(Reply to #242) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#246 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 10:03:12	Bloodscythe wrote:
#247 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 10:05:40	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #246) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#249 Mirtek May 20, 2015 10:17:20	The only problem with one-handed-reloading would be that hand-crossbow and shield becomes the superior style in terms of effectiveness. With the +10 damage from sharpshooter combined with the +2 to hit from fighting style and the guaranteed bonus action attack easily outdamages even a greatsword while getting benefits of using a shield at the same time.   However rulling it only  bepossible for two hand crossbows wouldn't change anything.
(Reply to #240) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #248) Satyrn	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #247) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #251) Bloodscythe	Satyrn wrote:
#254 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 10:35:43	Bloodscythe wrote:
#255 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 10:38:59	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #254) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#257 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 10:43:54	Bloodscythe wrote:
#258 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 10:45:38	Bloodscythe wrote:
#259 Satyrn May 20, 2015 10:45:42	He's saying that everyone at the table work towards the fun of everyone else at the table. This would mean the players giving the DM what he wants (a world without dragons) and giving the DM giving the player what he wants (a dragon rider). But since those 2 things are mutually exclusive, the people would work toward a middle ground or other compromise. The easy one would be to select something dragon-like that does exist in the world. Or maybe the dragon rider has a figurine of wondrous power. Or something. The point is that the DM and player figure something out that works for the table.   With the dual wielding, the "compromise" that Chris is suggesting is that he wields those 2 crossbows but doesn't get to attack with them much (just every other round) because the hypothetical DM has ruled that's how effective dual wielding is. Chris still gets to play his concept and his happy.
#260 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 10:49:44	Satyrn wrote:
(Reply to #259) Bloodscythe	Satyrn wrote:
#262 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 10:53:10	Satyrn wrote:
#263 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 10:56:59	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #262) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #262) Satyrn	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#266 Orethalion May 20, 2015 11:08:49	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #263) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#268 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 11:11:59	Satyrn wrote:
(Reply to #266) Bloodscythe	Orethalion wrote:
#270 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 11:15:47	Orethalion wrote:
#271 DemoMonkey May 20, 2015 11:16:15	Player; I want to fire two hand crossbows at once because it's cool!   DM: Awesome! I love "Hard Boiled". Now, which of the crossbow is automatically going to miss, the right or the left?   Compromise.
#272 XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek May 20, 2015 11:17:21	Wrist crossbows people!
#273 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 11:19:43	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #273) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#275 Bloodscythe May 20, 2015 11:33:04	I'm surprised no one has proposed the scenario of drawing two hand crossbows, loading one hand crossbow onto the other and firing it.  Two hand crossbows/no ammunition ultimate attack!
(Reply to #248) SleepsInTraffic	Bloodscythe wrote:
#277 Orethalion May 20, 2015 11:52:44	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#278 durntaur May 20, 2015 12:06:06	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #276) Bloodscythe	SleepsInTraffic wrote:
(Reply to #278) Bloodscythe	durntaur wrote:
(Reply to #278) OoftaMeg	durntaur wrote:
#282 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 12:39:56	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #282) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #279) SleepsInTraffic	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #284) OoftaMeg	SleepsInTraffic wrote:
#286 DemoMonkey May 20, 2015 12:58:57	"A DM without players isn't a DM."   And a player without a game to play in isn't a player.   Tautological statement is tautological! YAY!
(Reply to #284) Bloodscythe	SleepsInTraffic wrote:
#288 durntaur May 20, 2015 13:10:53	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #288) OoftaMeg	durntaur wrote:
#290 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 13:15:35	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #285) SleepsInTraffic	OoftaMeg wrote:
#292 XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek May 20, 2015 13:23:59	What about "returning hand crossbows"?
#293 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 13:24:58	SleepsInTraffic wrote:
(Reply to #290) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#295 mellored May 20, 2015 13:35:22	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #295) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#297 LordTwig May 20, 2015 13:45:42	This is a hard thread to catch up with.   There has been far too much assuming the worse of people in this thread, and a great deal of intentionally misrepresenting the other side of the argument. Thankfully it seems that it has died down and people are able to acknowledge the other side of the argument without insult.   For myself I have been thinking about the problem of a player that wants to dual wield hand crossbows and be able to reload them when it isn't allowed by the rules. I don't like the idea of an unexplained invisible hand so the conversation would probably be something like...   Player: "I want to dual wield hand crossbows!"   Me: "Oh, well, you can do that, but it would be a problem trying to reload them. How important is this to you."   Player: "I already bought a miniature and made the character. Isn't there some way to get it to work?"   Me (not a turd): "I might be able to throw in some magic self-loading hand crossbows at some point in the game, but it might be a while. Are you willing to wait a little while to realize your concept?"   Player (not a jerk): "Yeah, I guess so."   Me: "Cool. I think you will like what you get when we get there!"   Joy and happiness!   And the magic crossbows? There would be a 3 piece set, probably of gnomish make. Two hand crossbows and a quiver. And they have to be used together (or maybe just within 5' of each other). You drop any crossbow bolts you want into the quiver and they are teleported to hand crossbow when you give the trigger a half pull. If you put different types of bolts in you can even choose which one gets loaded. Pull the trigger the rest of the way and it fires. I might later allow them to be enchanted so you can attune them and get a +1 bonus to both crossbows.   I would probably allow for a side quest to find these around level 5. Enchant and attune for the +1 bonus a few levels latter.
(Reply to #297) Bloodscythe	LordTwig wrote:
(Reply to #293) SleepsInTraffic	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#300 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 13:52:11	LordTwig wrote:
(Reply to #300) LordTwig	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#302 Shasarak May 20, 2015 13:56:29	I did not realise that you would want to dual-wield hand crossbows until they ruled that you could not dual-wield handcrossbows.   Oh well, as long as I can still backstab with a siege weapon then it is all good.
(Reply to #301) Bloodscythe	LordTwig wrote:
#304 durntaur May 20, 2015 13:58:51	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #302) OoftaMeg	Shasarak wrote:
#306 Orethalion May 20, 2015 14:00:00	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #298) LordTwig	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #304) Bloodscythe	durntaur wrote:
#309 durntaur May 20, 2015 14:07:43	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #304) LordTwig	durntaur wrote:
(Reply to #307) Bloodscythe	LordTwig wrote:
#312 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 14:15:00	Bloodscythe wrote:
#313 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 14:17:46	Bloodscythe wrote:
#314 LordTwig May 20, 2015 14:23:01	So you are saying you are both guilty?
(Reply to #312) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#316 ChrisCarlson May 20, 2015 14:27:57	Nope. Never did. Always said he can still do it, even in adherence to your strict ruling.   Please explain how he cannot, under any circumstance (short of bad DM techniques), play the character he wants, as I've repeatedly shown is possible.
(Reply to #316) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#318 LordTwig May 20, 2015 14:37:42	Well Chris, you could have specifically pointed out they were loaded crossbows instead of letting people think you were talking about something else. Being deliberately unclear is rude.
#319 mellored May 20, 2015 14:46:59	Bloodscythe wrote:
#320 mellored May 20, 2015 14:48:03	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #319) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #320) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#323 Shasarak May 20, 2015 14:59:56	SleepsInTraffic wrote:
#324 mellored May 20, 2015 15:08:56	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #324) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#326 mellored May 20, 2015 15:25:00	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #326) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#328 Orethalion May 20, 2015 15:30:26	mellored wrote:
#329 Orethalion May 20, 2015 15:31:22	Bloodscythe wrote:
#330 LordTwig May 20, 2015 15:31:43	I like that the sling was brought up. The way I read it even though it only requires one hand to use a sling to attack, it would take two hands to load it. I'm fine with that.
(Reply to #330) Bloodscythe	LordTwig wrote:
(Reply to #204) LordTwig	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#333 Jenks May 20, 2015 18:20:10	I honestly see the ruling on crossbow expert as a win-win for both sides.    1. The dissenting side got their official ruling to lean on in case they do not want to allow it. Thus when a player brings it up, the DM can point to an official ruling. Makes saying no a bit easier to take imo.   2. The ones who wanted it may not have gotten an official ruling backing their side, but their players do get a feeling that their dm is allowing them to do something cool they wanted to do, but isn't allowed by the rules. It's a much better feeling than the opposite, which is the DM saying no and the player feeling like they are being denied something backed by the rules.   My opinion anyway. This way really is the lesser of two evils.
(Reply to #148) arnwolf666	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #193) arnwolf666	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#336 ORC_Cricket May 21, 2015 0:00:38	We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.   You can review the Code here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct   Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.   Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intelligent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others.     Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.
#337 lawrencehoy May 21, 2015 0:34:05	LordTwig wrote:
#338 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 7:03:45	LordTwig wrote:
#339 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 7:05:12	LordTwig wrote:
#340 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 7:16:18	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #340) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#342 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 7:37:04	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #342) OoftaMeg	I kind of envision the following at the table with certain people
#344 OoftaMeg May 21, 2015 8:27:53	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#345 mellored May 21, 2015 8:37:41	OoftaMeg wrote:
#346 DaomSlayer May 21, 2015 9:00:43	LordTwig wrote:
#347 DaomSlayer May 21, 2015 9:01:00	mellored wrote:
#348 mellored May 21, 2015 9:06:00	DaomSlayer wrote:
#349 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 9:34:41	Coredump00 wrote:
#350 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 9:38:31	DaomSlayer wrote:
#351 OoftaMeg May 21, 2015 9:40:01	I attempt to be logically consistent in my rulings.  If dual-wielding and reloading hand crossbows work, then a hand-crossbow and shield should work.   The latter is more than just fluff, so I don't allow the former for consistency.   The other reason is simple visuals.  In the LOTR movies, Legolas fires his bow at a ridiculously high rate of speed but visually it works.  A person firing a crossbow (one handed or not) is a bit more of a stretch but at least I could envision it.   Maybe being logically consistent (with exceptions for magic and rules streamlining) doesn't matter to you but it does to me and at least some of my players.   Dual wielding hand crossbows is fluff I would not allow.
#352 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 9:40:04	DaomSlayer wrote:
#353 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 9:48:17	OoftaMeg wrote:
#354 DaomSlayer May 21, 2015 10:03:35	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#355 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 10:24:54	DaomSlayer wrote:
(Reply to #354) OoftaMeg	DaomSlayer wrote:
(Reply to #355) OoftaMeg	Ok, I'll bite.   ChrisCarlson wrote:
#358 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 11:19:27	OoftaMeg wrote:
#359 ORC_Animus May 21, 2015 11:18:07	I’ve removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting/personal attacks are violations of the Code of Conduct.   You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct   Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.   If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
(Reply to #345) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#361 Zardnaar May 21, 2015 11:34:18	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #358) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#363 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 11:52:44	Zardnaar wrote:
#364 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 11:54:45	OoftaMeg wrote:
#365 Hitdice May 21, 2015 12:20:02	I think all of us (PC and DM alike) would agree that dual wielding doesn't negate the loading property of hand crossbows, right?   Sometimes I ask honest questions, and sometimes I just stir the pot; You be the judge!
#366 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 12:23:21	Hitdice wrote:
#367 mellored May 21, 2015 12:29:29	Zardnaar wrote:
(Reply to #365) OoftaMeg	Hitdice wrote:
#369 mellored May 21, 2015 12:34:05	Overall this is why i prefer the gamma world style of weapons.   choose either... 2d6 melee damage 1d8 melee damage, +2 AC   1d8 ranged damage 1d4 ranged damage, +2 AC   players can decide how they get that.
#370 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 12:38:17	WHFRPG went even further...   Chose from the following: Two-handed weapons: 2d6 One-handed weapons: 1d6   Done.
#371 TenaciousJ May 21, 2015 12:46:07	I will be allowing my players to have a container for crossbow bolts mounted on the back of the shield.  If you're enough of a crossbow expert to load them fast enough to fire multiple times a round, I'm not going to let the shield get in the way of that.
#372 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 12:49:51	TenaciousJ wrote:
#373 Zardnaar May 21, 2015 13:46:04	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#374 Zardnaar May 21, 2015 13:51:22	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#375 Shasarak May 21, 2015 13:59:04	OoftaMeg wrote:
#376 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 14:03:32	Zardnaar wrote:
#377 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 14:08:30	Shasarak wrote:
(Reply to #363) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#379 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 14:16:17	Is there an "innane, semantic non-difference" fallacy? There should be.
(Reply to #379) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#381 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 14:22:30	Bloodscythe wrote:
#382 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 14:24:22	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #382) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #381) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #381) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#386 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 15:44:36	Bloodscythe wrote:
#387 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 15:47:40	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #386) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#389 Lady_Auralla May 21, 2015 15:50:44	I think it is time you guys just agreed to disagree, how many pages with no movement on either front can you have before moving along to a discussion with value. As it is you guys may as well be screaming No it's duck season.....No it's rabbit season for all the discussion is currently worth.
#390 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 15:52:00	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #387) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#392 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 16:04:33	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #389) Bloodscythe	Lady_Auralla wrote:
#394 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 16:07:55	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #394) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#396 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 16:12:54	Bloodscythe wrote:
#397 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 16:16:40	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #396) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #396) LordTwig	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#400 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 16:46:27	Bloodscythe wrote:
#401 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 16:50:58	LordTwig wrote:
#402 Lady_Auralla May 21, 2015 17:03:30	Not taking sides here but you both have pretty much murdered any benefit this thread could have.
(Reply to #400) randl	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#404 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 17:10:53	randl wrote:
#405 LordTwig May 21, 2015 17:20:11	edwin_su wrote:
(Reply to #404) randl	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #405) randl	LordTwig wrote:
(Reply to #405) OoftaMeg	LordTwig wrote:
#409 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 17:39:14	OoftaMeg wrote:
#410 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 17:39:59	randl wrote:
(Reply to #409) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#412 ChrisCarlson May 21, 2015 18:22:31	OoftaMeg wrote:
#413 Satyrn May 21, 2015 21:27:43	randl wrote:
#414 arnwolf666 May 21, 2015 23:14:32	I can't even understand why players would want to play in a world where people dual wield crossbows.  For mundane classes I like to do a little research on how those fighting styles worked to give my setting a little feeling.  But I am not an anime/wuxia person.  I can understand firing having two loaded handcrossbows and firing them.  But after that you have to reload.  Just don't get players like that.
#415 MechaPilot May 21, 2015 23:23:49	arnwolf666 wrote:
#416 Orethalion May 21, 2015 23:49:12	mellored wrote:
#417 lawrencehoy May 22, 2015 3:16:24	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#418 lawrencehoy May 22, 2015 1:43:03	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#419 lawrencehoy May 22, 2015 1:11:32	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #403) Bloodscythe	randl wrote:
(Reply to #400) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#422 mellored May 22, 2015 5:19:43	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #422) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#424 mellored May 22, 2015 5:52:23	To summerize my opinion....     Single crossbow = RAW   dual crossbow = no balance change (fluff), requires DM approval.  Recommended.   crossbow + sheild = mechanical advantage.  Not recommend.
#425 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 6:39:13	lawrencehoy wrote:
#426 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 6:42:01	lawrencehoy wrote:
#427 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 6:47:02	lawrencehoy wrote:
#428 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 6:52:04	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #424) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
#430 Orethalion May 22, 2015 6:58:21	mellored wrote:
#431 Orethalion May 22, 2015 7:01:40	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #428) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#433 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 7:05:33	Orethalion wrote:
#434 Orethalion May 22, 2015 7:08:18	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#435 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 7:12:20	Bloodscythe wrote:
#436 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 7:14:30	Orethalion wrote:
#437 Lady_Auralla May 22, 2015 7:20:55	You guys are like a dog with a bone, none of you want to give on it.
(Reply to #429) OoftaMeg	Bloodscythe wrote:
#439 mellored May 22, 2015 7:23:46	He said having 2 crossbows makes you twice as difficult to disarm.   Not really relevent though since anyone can carry extra crossbows and pull it out when they lose the first one.
#440 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 7:28:36	mellored wrote:
#441 Orethalion May 22, 2015 7:36:08	mellored wrote:
#442 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 7:38:02	OoftaMeg wrote:
#443 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 7:40:00	Orethalion wrote:
#444 mellored May 22, 2015 7:55:14	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #435) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #444) Bloodscythe	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #442) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#448 edwin_su May 22, 2015 8:04:39	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#449 mellored May 22, 2015 8:04:57	Here's a solution....   Akimbo Rings, minor magic trinket You put a ring on each hand.  When you hold something in 1 hand, and nothing in the other, an illusion of that object appears in your other hand.
#450 mellored May 22, 2015 8:06:39	edwin_su wrote:
(Reply to #447) OoftaMeg	Bloodscythe wrote:
#452 Orethalion May 22, 2015 8:20:53	mellored wrote:
#453 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 8:21:01	Bloodscythe wrote:
#454 Orethalion May 22, 2015 8:21:28	mellored wrote:
#455 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 8:21:40	Bloodscythe wrote:
#456 Orethalion May 22, 2015 8:22:27	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#457 mellored May 22, 2015 8:23:34	OoftaMeg wrote:
#458 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 8:26:32	Orethalion wrote:
#459 mellored May 22, 2015 8:31:04	Orethalion wrote:
#460 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 8:33:17	mellored wrote:
#461 mellored May 22, 2015 8:38:36	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#462 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 8:42:07	mellored wrote:
#463 Orethalion May 22, 2015 8:48:56	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#464 Orethalion May 22, 2015 8:49:56	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #453) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#466 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 9:12:49	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #466) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#468 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 9:28:08	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #468) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#470 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 9:37:23	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #469) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #471) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#473 Orethalion May 22, 2015 10:04:52	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#474 Orethalion May 22, 2015 10:05:42	Bloodscythe wrote:
#475 FFSAA May 22, 2015 10:08:39	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #474) Bloodscythe	Orethalion wrote:
#477 Orethalion May 22, 2015 10:13:09	FFSAA wrote:
#478 Orethalion May 22, 2015 10:13:58	Bloodscythe wrote:
#479 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 10:15:30	I'm concerned that we may have to institute some sort of convservation program. I worry that so many nits are being picked they may soon become endangered. Maybe even extinct if something is't done to protect them.   Won't someone please think of the nits?
(Reply to #478) Bloodscythe	Orethalion wrote:
#481 Orethalion May 22, 2015 10:24:07	Bloodscythe wrote:
#482 durntaur May 22, 2015 10:28:19	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #481) Bloodscythe	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #482) Bloodscythe	durntaur wrote:
#485 FFSAA May 22, 2015 10:32:00	Orethalion wrote:
#486 durntaur May 22, 2015 10:34:03	Orethalion wrote:
#487 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 10:39:09	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #486) Bloodscythe	durntaur wrote:
#489 durntaur May 22, 2015 10:40:28	Bloodscythe wrote:
#490 ChrisCarlson May 22, 2015 10:41:25	Bloodscythe wrote:
#491 durntaur May 22, 2015 10:47:32	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #489) Bloodscythe	durntaur wrote:
(Reply to #491) Bloodscythe	durntaur wrote:
(Reply to #487) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#495 durntaur May 22, 2015 10:57:45	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #493) Satyrn	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #495) Bloodscythe	durntaur wrote:
(Reply to #496) Bloodscythe	Satyrn wrote:
#499 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 11:03:10	Satyrn wrote:
(Reply to #493) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #500) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#502 edwin_su May 22, 2015 12:11:19	FFSAA wrote:
#503 durntaur May 22, 2015 12:36:20	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#504 Orethalion May 22, 2015 12:41:17	durntaur wrote:
#505 Orethalion May 22, 2015 12:43:57	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #505) Bloodscythe	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #501) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #507) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#509 durntaur May 22, 2015 13:08:29	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #508) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
#511 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 13:19:36	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #510) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#513 Orethalion May 22, 2015 13:20:53	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #511) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
(Reply to #513) Bloodscythe	Orethalion wrote:
#516 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 13:28:10	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #516) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
#518 Orethalion May 22, 2015 13:31:27	durntaur wrote:
(Reply to #512) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
#520 Orethalion May 22, 2015 13:35:05	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #516) randl	MechaPilot wrote:
#522 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 13:36:55	Bloodscythe wrote:
#523 OoftaMeg May 22, 2015 13:41:04	I do believe this thread has taken one of the most irrational tangents I've seen in a while.
(Reply to #519) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #518) AaronOfBarbaria	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #522) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
#527 durntaur May 22, 2015 13:50:56	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #524) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #526) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #527) Bloodscythe	durntaur wrote:
#531 durntaur May 22, 2015 14:03:13	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #528) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #530) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
#534 durntaur May 22, 2015 14:07:30	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #529) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #532) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #535) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
#538 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 14:22:08	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #537) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#540 Shasarak May 22, 2015 14:29:31	MechaPilot wrote:
#541 Shasarak May 22, 2015 14:33:14	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #538) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
#543 mellored May 22, 2015 14:38:38	OoftaMeg wrote:
#544 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 14:41:49	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #533) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #544) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
#547 durntaur May 22, 2015 15:00:09	Bloodscythe wrote:
#548 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 15:01:09	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #543) OoftaMeg	mellored wrote:
#550 durntaur May 22, 2015 15:15:01	OoftaMeg wrote:
#551 admcewen May 22, 2015 15:23:28	I'm so glad to see these forums have improved with the new edition...Oh wait.
#552 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 15:25:09	admcewen wrote:
(Reply to #552) OoftaMeg	MechaPilot wrote:
(Reply to #14) Broken_Devil	Orethalion wrote:
#555 Wuzzard May 22, 2015 18:23:28	Can I BAN HAMMER this thread?
#556 XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek May 22, 2015 18:27:56	Well Chuck Norris can fire three handcrossbows and still reload using his two hands plus the one behind his beard.
(Reply to #539) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
#558 FFSAA May 22, 2015 21:21:34	edwin_su wrote:
(Reply to #415) arnwolf666	MechaPilot wrote:
#560 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 21:51:25	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #560) arnwolf666	MechaPilot wrote:
#562 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 22:00:13	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #562) arnwolf666	MechaPilot wrote:
#564 MechaPilot May 22, 2015 22:26:15	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #557) randl	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #561) OoftaMeg	arnwolf666 wrote:
#567 Lady_Auralla May 23, 2015 6:56:24	Mearls stated a while back that several armours and weapons are sub par designed for mostly village militia and low level beasties and npc's to have not for serious PC consideration. They should of pointed this out in the phb because the unwarry may get trapped.
#568 FFSAA May 23, 2015 7:06:28	Lady_Auralla wrote:
#569 Lady_Auralla May 23, 2015 7:46:23	You would have to have the tongue of the devil to convince me that Padded Armour is not sub par or a trap.
#570 Orethalion May 23, 2015 8:25:14	Lady_Auralla wrote:
#571 Orethalion May 23, 2015 8:34:58	Bounded accuracy has made it so armor choice is pretty meaningless.  There's no such thing as trap armor.   Armor type                            AC   Padded                                  16 Leather                                  16 Studded Leather                  17 Hide                                       14 Chain Shirt                            15 Scale Mail                              16 Breastplate                           16 Halfplate                                17 Ring Mail                                14 Chain Mail                             16 Splint Mail                             17 Plate Mail                               18   As you can see, the AC you can reach is at most, 2 point higher than padded armor, and even then you need a high strength.  Only 4 of the 12 armors have a better AC than padded.  There is no way that it can be considered to be sub-par or a trap with such a small amount differentiating armors from one another.
(Reply to #569) OoftaMeg	[quote="Lady_Auralla"]<p>You would have to have the tongue of the devil to convince me that Padded Armour is not sub par or a trap.</p> [/quote] It is cheaper and more closely mimics certain kinds of historical armor, which is kind of the point. Then again, I've never seen anyone take it, it seems to be there mostly for sake of tradition.
#573 Orethalion May 23, 2015 9:19:01	OoftaMeg wrote:
#574 edwin_su May 23, 2015 9:34:08	Lady_Auralla wrote:
#575 Orethalion May 23, 2015 10:04:18	edwin_su wrote:
(Reply to #565) AaronOfBarbaria	randl wrote:
(Reply to #557) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #577) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
#579 Orethalion May 24, 2015 11:18:09	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#580 MechaPilot May 24, 2015 11:23:56	Orethalion wrote:
#581 Orethalion May 24, 2015 12:10:07	MechaPilot wrote:
#582 Satyrn May 24, 2015 12:50:21	So is it always irrational for a coach to challenge a call?
#583 Orethalion May 24, 2015 13:14:15	Satyrn wrote:
#584 Zalabim May 24, 2015 13:58:02	Orethalion wrote:
#585 Orethalion May 24, 2015 17:29:18	Zalabim wrote:
#586 Zalabim May 24, 2015 17:57:40	I stand by the criteria by which they are better. Also, Padded Armor requires 20 Dexterity to get that AC, while the heavy armors require Str 13 or 15 to match or exceed it. Rating Padded Armor by ability score required, it is plainly the worst armor. Finally, not meeting the ability score requirement on heavy armor isn't even a major penalty. Dwarves can ignore it, and wood elves still move at the same speed as dwarves, for example.
#587 Orethalion May 24, 2015 18:04:03	Zalabim wrote:
(Reply to #580) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
#589 MechaPilot May 24, 2015 19:10:19	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #578) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #589) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
#592 MechaPilot May 24, 2015 19:26:52	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #592) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
#594 MechaPilot May 24, 2015 19:44:24	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #594) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
#596 MechaPilot May 24, 2015 19:56:00	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #596) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
#598 MechaPilot May 24, 2015 20:45:28	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #590) AaronOfBarbaria	Bloodscythe wrote:
#600 Orethalion May 24, 2015 21:36:36	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #599) Bloodscythe	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#602 Orethalion May 24, 2015 21:46:19	Bloodscythe wrote:
#603 DoctorBadWolf May 24, 2015 22:16:17	Not all characters that attack with dex will have fully maxed out dex. Not all characters attack with str or dex. Plenty of characters in both groups are not going to get as much out of padded armor as they will out of any of the medium armors. And leather armor is cheap enough, and in enough starting gear packages, that there will rarely be a cost related reason to use padded armor, not to mention that padded is strictly less good than leather. The extra cost of leather is irrelevant, because it is not prohibitive. Any campaign where starting characters don't have access to leather armor is going to be enough of an edge case that it doesn't belong in a balance discussion.   The only way an armor could be worse than padded armor is by having lower AC with a moderate dex score, and also having the stealth penalty. Being heavier isn't a problem, because characters who dump str in favor of dex aren't looking at anything but light armor. Basically, medium and heavy armor is better for stronger characters, while light is better for more agile characters, which is as it should be. The only place in question is those is comparing within a category, in which case padded flat out loses.
(Reply to #602) Bloodscythe	Orethalion wrote:
#605 ORC_Nashira May 25, 2015 6:19:41	I've removed content from this thread because flaming/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/policies/web/conduct
#606 FFSAA May 25, 2015 6:45:37	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#607 lawrencehoy May 25, 2015 22:14:51	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#608 lawrencehoy May 25, 2015 22:20:50	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #608) arnwolf666	lawrencehoy wrote:
#610 lawrencehoy May 25, 2015 23:36:33	Orethalion wrote:
#611 lawrencehoy May 25, 2015 23:37:13	arnwolf666 wrote:
#612 durntaur May 25, 2015 23:38:19	arnwolf666 wrote:
#613 Zardnaar May 26, 2015 3:26:26	durntaur wrote:
#614 Orethalion May 26, 2015 6:42:56	lawrencehoy wrote:
#615 ChrisCarlson May 26, 2015 13:20:08	lawrencehoy wrote:
#616 ChrisCarlson May 26, 2015 13:21:43	lawrencehoy wrote:
#617 lawrencehoy May 26, 2015 22:17:53	Orethalion wrote:
#618 Orethalion May 26, 2015 22:19:13	lawrencehoy wrote:
#619 lawrencehoy May 26, 2015 22:25:11	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#620 lawrencehoy May 26, 2015 22:26:54	Orethalion wrote:
#621 lawrencehoy May 26, 2015 22:37:09	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#622 ChrisCarlson May 27, 2015 6:24:00	lawrencehoy wrote:
#623 ChrisCarlson May 27, 2015 6:34:05	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #622) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #606) DoctorBadWolf	FFSAA wrote:
#626 DoctorBadWolf May 27, 2015 11:06:23	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#627 ChrisCarlson May 27, 2015 11:11:16	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #626) AaronOfBarbaria	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#629 AaronOfBarbaria May 27, 2015 13:35:05	FFSAA wrote:
#630 ORC_Animus May 27, 2015 14:49:48	I’ve removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting/personal attacks are violations of the Code of Conduct.   You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct   Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.   If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
#631 Orethalion May 27, 2015 18:26:03	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #627) DoctorBadWolf	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#633 lawrencehoy May 27, 2015 22:05:27	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#634 ChrisCarlson May 28, 2015 6:37:22	Orethalion wrote:
#635 Karnos May 28, 2015 7:48:20	There is one inconsistancy with the ruling, IMO.   A hand-crossbow is 1 handed.  It has the ammunition property, so the argument is made that it requires an additional hand to reload, for a total of 2 hands.  Okay, fine.   A heavy crossbow is 2 handed. Given the above argument, it would also require an additional hand to reload, for a total of 3 hands.  Why isn't this the case?   Yes, you can reasonably assume that you let one hand off of the heavy crossbow to pick up a bolt and load, but why is it such a stretch to assume maybe the hand crossbow can be loaded with one hand, given that it is indeed a 1-handed weapon?
#636 ChrisCarlson May 28, 2015 8:07:30	Karnos wrote:
#637 ModusPonens May 28, 2015 8:24:22	Karnos wrote:
(Reply to #637) arnwolf666	ModusPonens wrote:
#639 ChrisCarlson May 28, 2015 8:55:38	Yeah, you can generally only ever hold one thing in each hand...     Oh wait...
#640 ModusPonens May 28, 2015 9:13:40	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#641 FFSAA May 28, 2015 9:17:44	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#642 ChrisCarlson May 28, 2015 9:46:29	ModusPonens wrote:
(Reply to #642) ModusPonens	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#644 ChrisCarlson May 28, 2015 11:13:15	ModusPonens wrote:
#645 ModusPonens May 28, 2015 11:33:58	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #635) Bloodscythe	Karnos wrote:
(Reply to #645) AaronOfBarbaria	ModusPonens wrote:
(Reply to #647) OoftaMeg	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#649 ModusPonens May 28, 2015 12:09:12	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #648) AaronOfBarbaria	OoftaMeg wrote:
#651 ChrisCarlson May 28, 2015 12:51:39	Bloodscythe wrote:
#652 ORC_Animus May 28, 2015 12:54:20	I’ve removed content from this thread because personal attacks are violations of the Code of Conduct.   You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct   Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.   If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
(Reply to #651) Bloodscythe	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#654 ChrisCarlson May 28, 2015 14:20:45	ModusPonens wrote:
#655 FFSAA May 28, 2015 14:23:50	Bloodscythe wrote:
#656 ChrisCarlson May 28, 2015 14:27:20	FFSAA wrote:
#657 AaronOfBarbaria May 28, 2015 14:29:38	I have to chime in with my agreement with FFSAA on this matter, if for no other reason than to prove that it is actually possible for FFSAA and I to agree on something.
#658 5ft May 28, 2015 14:31:15	Yet you guys don't understand his point contradicts yours.
#659 ChrisCarlson May 28, 2015 14:32:05	5ft wrote:
#660 OoftaMeg May 28, 2015 15:00:28	ModusPonens wrote:
#661 AaronOfBarbaria May 28, 2015 15:35:47	ModusPonens wrote:
#662 Orethalion May 28, 2015 18:55:53	Karnos wrote:
#663 Orethalion May 28, 2015 19:00:14	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #655) arnwolf666	FFSAA wrote:
#665 MechaPilot May 28, 2015 20:17:15	Bloodscythe wrote:
#666 MechaPilot May 28, 2015 20:21:02	Orethalion wrote:
#667 ChrisCarlson May 28, 2015 20:34:08	arnwolf666 wrote:
#668 Orethalion May 28, 2015 20:57:20	MechaPilot wrote:
#669 MechaPilot May 28, 2015 21:02:43	Orethalion wrote:
#670 Orethalion May 28, 2015 21:41:27	MechaPilot wrote:
#671 MechaPilot May 28, 2015 21:51:29	Orethalion wrote:
#672 Orethalion May 28, 2015 21:57:18	MechaPilot wrote:
#673 MechaPilot May 28, 2015 22:06:30	Orethalion wrote:
#674 Orethalion May 28, 2015 22:18:01	MechaPilot wrote:
#675 MechaPilot May 28, 2015 22:30:41	Orethalion wrote:
#676 lawrencehoy May 29, 2015 0:03:05	MechaPilot wrote:
#677 MechaPilot May 29, 2015 0:05:02	lawrencehoy wrote:
#678 Horwath May 29, 2015 0:18:17	Orethalion wrote:
#679 lawrencehoy May 29, 2015 0:25:23	MechaPilot wrote:
#680 MechaPilot May 29, 2015 0:33:02	lawrencehoy wrote:
#681 MechaPilot May 29, 2015 0:39:43	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #641) DoctorBadWolf	FFSAA wrote:
#683 DoctorBadWolf May 29, 2015 1:26:58	The rules don't assume a setting. Much of the flavour text does, but the rules don't. RAW is completely unaffected by anything that isn't mechanical rules text.   Furthermore, standard medieval fantasy does not mean, "unless explicitly state otherwise, everything works exactly like medieval europe, IRL". It really never has.   The idea that the rules are based on that type of setting only means that it is their inspiration, not that such a setting is the rules. Anything not explicitly in the written rules, is by definition not a rule. That is an inarguable fact.
#684 lawrencehoy May 29, 2015 2:50:56	MechaPilot wrote:
#685 lawrencehoy May 29, 2015 2:53:12	MechaPilot wrote:
#686 lawrencehoy May 29, 2015 2:59:18	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #665) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
(Reply to #655) Bloodscythe	FFSAA wrote:
#689 Orethalion May 29, 2015 6:31:29	MechaPilot wrote:
#690 Orethalion May 29, 2015 6:34:01	MechaPilot wrote:
#691 Orethalion May 29, 2015 6:35:14	Horwath wrote:
#692 Horwath May 29, 2015 6:38:39	Orethalion wrote:
#693 Orethalion May 29, 2015 6:41:39	lawrencehoy wrote:
#694 Orethalion May 29, 2015 6:43:57	Horwath wrote:
#695 Horwath May 29, 2015 7:07:39	Orethalion wrote:
#696 OoftaMeg May 29, 2015 7:35:51	It seems to me that there are rules, rulings, assumed rules, and house rules.   Rules:   Things stated or logically derived from the rules in the book a short sword does 1d6 piercing.   You need a free hand to load a crossbow because it has the ammunition property which requires you do draw the ammuntion.   Rulings: Things that may be somewhat vague or not explicitly spelled out in the book.  This is probably an area where people may just have to agree to disagree because there is no one answer. Adjudication of stealth and what constitutes being "distracted" Whether or not you can carry around a loaded crossbow.  The rules are silent, so it's up to the group to make a ruling that makes sense. Assumed Rules: Things everybody takes for granted unless the campaign setting says otherwise The sky is blue The sun rises in the east House Rules: Any override of the rules you've decided to implement for your game You can load a crossbow without the use of a free hand Druids can wear metal armor
#697 edwin_su May 29, 2015 7:51:00	Wheile we are talking about crossbow light and when is it heavy.   personaly i treat enything loaded in a single movement as light so stirrup, pull and push lever cocking methods. heavy crosbows use Cranequin and windlass and simular cockng methods.
#698 MechaPilot May 29, 2015 10:05:30	lawrencehoy wrote:
#699 FFSAA May 29, 2015 10:31:57	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#700 MechaPilot May 29, 2015 10:37:39	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #700) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
(Reply to #673) arnwolf666	MechaPilot wrote:
#703 DoctorBadWolf May 29, 2015 13:12:29	If we imagine a hand crossbow where the trigger is thumb operated, and the  handle is more like a normal xbow rather than pistol gripped, it's not hard to imagine loading the xbow in one hand with the fingers of the other hand, never taking either out of your hand. I've certainly loaded revolvers that way. Since feats are kinda big this time, it's no big deal to imagine the character training for weeks to be able to pull off the trick.   It's also easy to imagine specially made bolt holders that facilitate such loading, and/or clips that hold bolts onto the sides of the xbow, for easy loading.   You can definately set a hand xbow with two fingers while holding something else, and you can definately manipulate objects with your fingers while holding weapons, includings a sidearm.   This isn't unrealistic at all, outside of the speed at which you're doing it, which is a thing that DnD in general, and 5e specifically, isn't all that granular about.   also, doing things faster than is realistic, more precisely than is realistic and with more finesse and panache/less chance of fumbling than realistic is 100% within the normal bounds of non magical dnd characters.
(Reply to #684) DoctorBadWolf	lawrencehoy wrote:
#705 Orethalion May 29, 2015 14:48:08	Horwath wrote:
#706 Orethalion May 29, 2015 14:53:54	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#707 lawrencehoy May 30, 2015 4:58:22	MechaPilot wrote:
#708 lawrencehoy May 30, 2015 5:05:13	MechaPilot wrote:
#709 lawrencehoy May 30, 2015 5:07:08	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#710 lawrencehoy May 30, 2015 5:16:41	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#711 FFSAA May 30, 2015 8:52:24	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#712 FFSAA May 30, 2015 9:14:48	Bloodscythe wrote:
#713 Karnos May 30, 2015 9:28:12	ModusPonens wrote:
#714 arnwolf666 May 30, 2015 9:57:58	Early D&D put more effort into understanding the medieval and classical settings, especially their social structures and technology.
(Reply to #713) OoftaMeg	Karnos wrote:
(Reply to #712) Bloodscythe	FFSAA wrote:
(Reply to #715) Bloodscythe	OoftaMeg wrote:
#718 FFSAA May 30, 2015 11:49:46	Bloodscythe wrote:
#719 MechaPilot May 30, 2015 12:09:50	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #718) OoftaMeg	FFSAA wrote:
#721 Jenks May 30, 2015 16:36:25	There was an official ruling made. If you want to house rule it, house rule it. Why are we still arguing about this? Christ.    /thread
#722 FFSAA May 30, 2015 17:06:22	Jenks wrote:
(Reply to #722) OoftaMeg	FFSAA wrote:
#724 Mecheon May 30, 2015 19:50:07	Jenks wrote:
(Reply to #724) OoftaMeg	Mecheon wrote:
#726 Mecheon May 31, 2015 2:39:28	OoftaMeg wrote:
#727 Shasarak May 31, 2015 3:43:29	FFSAA wrote:
#728 lawrencehoy May 31, 2015 4:32:54	MechaPilot wrote:
#729 lawrencehoy May 31, 2015 4:40:03	FFSAA wrote:
#730 lawrencehoy May 31, 2015 4:45:30	FFSAA wrote:
#731 lawrencehoy May 31, 2015 4:50:59	FFSAA wrote:
#732 lawrencehoy May 31, 2015 5:00:21	Mecheon wrote:
(Reply to #726) OoftaMeg	Mecheon wrote:
(Reply to #732) Farmer42	lawrencehoy wrote:
#735 Captain_Kobold May 31, 2015 12:49:03	lawrencehoy wrote:
#736 FFSAA May 31, 2015 16:53:37	lawrencehoy wrote:
#737 FFSAA May 31, 2015 16:58:05	Farmer42 wrote:
#738 FFSAA May 31, 2015 17:07:49	lawrencehoy wrote:
#739 lawrencehoy May 31, 2015 20:51:26	FFSAA wrote:
#740 lawrencehoy May 31, 2015 20:53:14	FFSAA wrote:
#741 Mecheon Jun 01, 2015 2:07:15	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #706) DoctorBadWolf	Orethalion wrote:
#743 lawrencehoy Jun 01, 2015 3:56:26	Mecheon wrote:
(Reply to #743) arnwolf666	lawrencehoy wrote:
#745 lawrencehoy Jun 01, 2015 4:16:42	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #714) DoctorBadWolf	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #745) DoctorBadWolf	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #747) arnwolf666	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#749 Orethalion Jun 01, 2015 6:28:07	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#750 Orethalion Jun 01, 2015 6:33:42	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #748) DoctorBadWolf	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #751) arnwolf666	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #752) DoctorBadWolf	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #753) arnwolf666	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #746) Bloodscythe	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#756 FFSAA Jun 01, 2015 12:52:45	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #755) DoctorBadWolf	Bloodscythe wrote:
#758 lawrencehoy Jun 01, 2015 23:29:14	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #757) Bloodscythe	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #758) DoctorBadWolf	lawrencehoy wrote:
#761 lawrencehoy Jun 04, 2015 4:11:37	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #760) Bloodscythe	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #12) arnwolf666	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #761) DoctorBadWolf	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #762) DoctorBadWolf	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #764) randl	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#767 lawrencehoy Jun 08, 2015 22:54:27	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #766) DoctorBadWolf	randl wrote:
(Reply to #768) randl	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#770 lawrencehoy Jun 08, 2015 23:45:59	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #765) Bloodscythe	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #771) arnwolf666	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #762) Coredump00	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #764) Coredump00	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #769) DoctorBadWolf	randl wrote:
#776 DoctorBadWolf Jun 09, 2015 15:09:08	Like I literally don't see how a sane person could think that fluff text is rules, much less fluff text that's more about the history of the game than anything else, could possibly be rules text.
#777 RCanine Jun 09, 2015 21:30:33	So we're still arguing about loading hand crossbows? I've never seen anyone contradict this explanation:   Loading a hand crossbow doesn't require two hands. It requires a bolt. A bolt and a crossbow. Loading the crossbow doesn't affect your action economy because the ammunition rules let you load the crossbow as part of an attack. However, you still need to draw the bolt and use it, it just doesn't take any time. Unless your character somehow has prehensile eyelashes, no rules in the PHB allow you to load a crossbow without holding a bolt at some point in the process.   That said, if there was a magical crossbow that didn't require ammunition, like the 4E moonbow, I would have no problem letting a player fire it over and over with an occupied off-hand.
#778 MechaPilot Jun 09, 2015 21:49:08	RCanine wrote:
#779 arnwolf666 Jun 09, 2015 23:18:17	Oh dear gods, I will now DM in an era where crossbows have not been invented and are unknown.
(Reply to #775) Bloodscythe	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#781 edwin_su Jun 10, 2015 8:00:01	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #781) randl	edwin_su wrote:
#783 RCanine Jun 10, 2015 9:20:20	MechaPilot wrote:
#784 Brock_Landers Jun 10, 2015 9:58:21	Were some people actually thinking you could reload a crossbow with both hands full?
(Reply to #784) Bloodscythe	Brock_Landers wrote:
#786 MechaPilot Jun 10, 2015 11:38:53	Bloodscythe wrote:
#787 Brock_Landers Jun 10, 2015 12:00:35	Bloodscythe wrote:
#788 Brock_Landers Jun 10, 2015 12:02:03	MechaPilot wrote:
(Reply to #784) OoftaMeg	Brock_Landers wrote:
#790 ChrisCarlson Jun 10, 2015 12:36:48	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #790) OoftaMeg	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#792 ModusPonens Jun 10, 2015 12:42:50	At this point, this thread is the forum equivalent of a cadaver at the Texas State Forensic Anthropology Center: it should have been buried a long time ago, but people keep coming along and poking it with a pencil.
(Reply to #792) OoftaMeg	ModusPonens wrote:
#794 ChrisCarlson Jun 10, 2015 12:55:03	Haha. Classic. Have you won yet?   And, no. Not all houserules are okay. Cuz you're a houserule and you're not okay.
(Reply to #786) Bloodscythe	MechaPilot wrote:
#796 randl Jun 10, 2015 16:12:22	Now instead of discussing how you should ignore the Sage Advice ruling, we can discuss how you should ignore the Errata:   Ammunition (p. 146). Loading a onehanded weapon requires a free hand.
#797 ChrisCarlson Jun 10, 2015 16:59:57	randl wrote:
(Reply to #797) randl	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#799 MechaPilot Jun 10, 2015 17:59:12	Brock_Landers wrote:
#800 arnwolf666 Jun 10, 2015 20:55:14	Different people like different kinds of cheese.
(Reply to #780) DoctorBadWolf	Bloodscythe wrote:
#802 lawrencehoy Jun 11, 2015 0:21:57	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
(Reply to #801) Bloodscythe	DoctorBadWolf wrote:
#804 ORC_Animus Jun 11, 2015 11:29:51	I’ve removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting/personal attacks are violations of the Code of Conduct.   You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct   Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.   If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
(Reply to #803) Coredump00	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #805) Bloodscythe	Coredump00 wrote:
#807 ORC_Cricket Jun 11, 2015 18:19:14	We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.   You can review the Code here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct   Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.   Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intelligent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others.     Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.
(Reply to #802) DoctorBadWolf	lawrencehoy wrote: