Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Thank_Dog Aug 17, 2014 5:22:58	Ever since 4e introduced the concept of a short rest I've noticed that there always seems to be at least one person in every group who suffers from SRP. They're the ones who insist on pressing on despite the fact that the group is on 50% health and have used all their encounter powers and the fact that most short rests involve little more than everyone agreeing that they'll have a short rest and the DM saying, "Ok, heal up, renew powers, short rest over." Some DM's might check for a random encounter but I'm not entirely convinced that's why people are so adament to forgo a short rest. It seems to have more to do with some measure of suspension of disbelief as if the player can't handle the group stopping and rejuvenating so as to forge on.   Curious to know if others have experienced the same or if you're someone who hates short rests and why it is you hate them or the opposite from people who think you should take short rests whenever the opportunity presents itself and who feel put upon by the ones who insist on not stopping.
#2 Emanuele_Galletto Aug 17, 2014 6:20:23	never had issues with short rest, unless there's some sort of "timer" that keeps the pcs moving, such as a chase or a bomb countdown. resting for a bit doesn't break the narrative, provided the pcs actually have a safe place to rest in.
#3 Karnos Aug 17, 2014 6:48:33	In playing the starter set adventure, I was often the player in my group suggesting we move on instead of taking a short rest.  Mostly this was because I was playing a wizard and I didn't want an extra hour to pass on my mage armor duration, and at the times there wasn't really a great need to take a short rest.
#4 tallric_kruush Aug 17, 2014 7:13:29	You will be happy to know Mage Armor now lasts 8 hours!   We had a sense of urgency, too, in the starter set, but it was more a case of story immersion. "Crap, these goblins' buddies have our friends. We have to get to them before it's too late". Sitting down for an hour when goblins just snatched our friend seemed like a bad idea.   I've seen no SRP personally, but I think you are correct, based upon some posts I've read on this site. Some do dislike the mechanic, and likely find themselves dodging it as often as possible.   Honestly, we are already talking about restoring 4E's 5-minute rests. I like the narrative advantages, at times, of 1 hour rests. Yet, I'm not yet convinced that all classes have fair access to their class-granted resources (I'm looking at you, Battlemaster). Shorter short-rests would fix our gripe. We may try a flexible, DM adjudicated rest, that can vary from 5 minutes up to an hour based upon circumstance.
#5 TheLyons Aug 17, 2014 8:07:26	I DM only and I don't hate short rests as much as I hate a short rest after every encounter ever, even ones you barely used resources. 4 fights is 4 hours of rest plus 8 hour long rest, so half the day is resting? I live a somewhat sedentary lifestyle and half my day isn't resting! I am considering a few options. One is shorter rests as I can see a 5 minute rest most battles when time isn't a major factor, I just have to figure out how to balance it. Warlock seems OP with 5 minute rests. Another is allowing one hour short rests with rolling for random encounters unless the area obviously wouldn't have that. If I feel it's a highly unnecessary rest, I may roll 2d20 and use whichever one seems more appropriate. Another option is just rolling random encounters each rest with many results that are no encounter, but no encounter chances get less each rest.
#6 TheLyons Aug 17, 2014 8:11:20	I forgot to mention this in my last post but my beef with short rests isn't about short rests at all. I just loathe 5MWD and while this is different, it bothers me the same way if it's every single damn fight. I make it well known that 5MWD gives a great chance of having an "encounter of the 3rd kind". Once I warn players none have attempted it even though they don't know what I mean. I don't either, really.
#7 iserith Aug 17, 2014 8:17:04	I endeavor to make resting have tradeoffs so that there's a meaningful choice to be made - random encounter checks or a countdown approaching 0 when Bad Stuff Happens.
#8 Shiroiken Aug 17, 2014 8:27:53	In 4E, we short rested after every encounter, but 5E is different. Taking a short rest usually has an opportunity cost, such as a potential wandering monster (in wilderness) or the enemies reacting to our invasion (lair). Generally, I only see groups using a short rest if the opportunity cost is low or if the risk of continuing is high. Most adventuring days don't have a short rest, while others have 2 at most.
(Reply to #8) TheLyons	Shiroiken wrote:
#10 kev777 Aug 17, 2014 8:46:36	There are people who think the game is being played incorrectly if the party doesn't engage in X number of encounters per day.
#11 iserith Aug 17, 2014 8:55:00	What I often see at the table are situations where the DM hasn't set up a countdown or random encounters and some players want to press on without resting because they're "guessing" that they can't afford to take a shot rest. This is partly the fault of the DM for not making the tradeoffs for resting clear to the players so they can make meaningful decisions.
#12 Iorwerth Aug 17, 2014 9:16:34	From my Dm experience, it was never short rests that caused problems, it was the long rests. My players have learnt many tricks of the trade about finidng safe places to rest, fortifying them, hiding in rooms behind secret doors etc. It has been so bad at times that it almost seemed like a long rest would be had after every encounter! While there are some DM things you can do to make their life harder etc, really if they are determined then unless you order them not to take long rests they will if they want. After all, if they are role-playing seasoned adventurers who take an ultra-professional attitude to their trade, then taking these long rests is sensible (depending on the situation, obviously, as seriously active dungeons can make finding a safe place to rest quite problomatic), While someone in reality forced to rest up in the dark far underground in hostile territory may well find it psychologically damaging and tedious to the extreme, players don't really care about that. I have often thought of trying to introduce some sort of pyschological damage thing to hammer the player's with, but really I can't be bothered to create such house rules. Also, the game is as much theirs as mine, so if they want to play that way, then that is up to them. But it does make designing suitable challenging dungeons more difficult.    So what I like is the short rests, as these at least allow my players to go adventure longer before the call goes out to pack up tools and chill for a long rest. I would throw a chance of random encounter if I can be bothered, or think it adds to the drama, for these short rests, but often it just seems better to let them have the rest, do the bookkeeping they need, and start the adventure off again ASAP. After all, it is the adventure I really want them to play, rather than just deal with a wandering monster, unless the wandering monster makes everything more dramatic e.g. can go and get allies etc.
#13 iserith Aug 17, 2014 9:23:33	Resting costs time. If the campaign setting is static, then that cost is very low. If things are happening (and slouching toward bad things happening), then the cost gets much higher.
#14 Iorwerth Aug 17, 2014 9:31:36	iserith wrote:
#15 iserith Aug 17, 2014 9:35:45	Iorwerth wrote:
#16 Iorwerth Aug 17, 2014 11:54:03	iserith wrote:
#17 GamingGorman Aug 17, 2014 12:05:19	I've said it a million times, if you are in the middle of an adventure, times is one of the heroes most important resources to manage. Stopping to rest for an hour is going to cost something, and there are many times where a short rest just isn't possible given the situation. There will be lulls here and there where time isn't super important an resting would be a good idea. But those lulls don't appear when the players want them to. They appear when its approiate in the story.
#18 Oulak Aug 17, 2014 12:20:47	Iorwerth wrote:
(Reply to #14) Ashrym	Iorwerth wrote:
#20 masterfat78 Aug 17, 2014 12:27:14	tallric_kruush wrote:
#21 TiaNadiezja Aug 17, 2014 12:42:39	Iorwerth wrote:
#22 Iorwerth Aug 17, 2014 12:52:29	Ashrym wrote:
#23 iserith Aug 17, 2014 12:56:35	Iorwerth wrote:
#24 Thank_Dog Aug 17, 2014 13:27:07	TiaNadiezja wrote:
#25 Psikerlord Aug 17, 2014 13:56:44	generally cant short rest in a dungeon, but will always be doing it on wilderness treks or city adventures where wandering monsters are seldom encounterered. Assuming the players arent on a time because of the module. I dont have a problem with this. The player has to make a choice when he makes his or her PC - do they want a PC with mostly short rests? Mostly long rests? A rogue who doesnt care about either? There is a excellent range to choose from, and even if you make a certain choice, multiclassing will allow you to add more flexibility to your reset times.
#26 Zardnaar Aug 17, 2014 13:58:08	It might be a play style thing from TSR era D&D which did have reactive Dungeons. If you rest up for 5 minutes let alone an hour the humanoids etc will reinforce key areas, move barrels and tables around to provide cover and set up barricades with archers with a pit trap in front of them.     Another option is rather than fight the PCs 1 room at a time the monsters will respond with tactics and th Cs might get swarmed by 2-3 or 4 encounters worth of monsters at a time. Modern D&D discourages this due to things like CR/EL/xp guidelines for encounters but if you dragged your feet in older D&D you often made dungeons worse and it was only a good idea if you were 75% tapped and out of spells.     My PCs have tried things like 5 minute work days and come back and the monsters have either fled, fortified up, reinforced up etc. And in older D&D and some of the clones you get more xp from treasure and loot than killinng monsters so if the monsters flee and take the loot with them you do not level up. This is of course assuming the monsters are somewhat intelligent (8 or 9+ int+) with some amount of common sense.
#27 Shasarak Aug 17, 2014 14:10:02	iserith wrote:
#28 seti Aug 17, 2014 18:36:00	Non undead monsters need short rests too. So, if the PC's take an hour, or 5 minutes, I assume whomever or whatever they just encountered, or might encounter soon also gets a break to fortify, recharge, heal, call for reinforcements, or hide too.   That's a good toss up...Press on, and have an easier fight, or rest, recharge, heal...but probably face a tougher fight in a few (real time) minutes.
#29 Fantasyfilmsman Aug 17, 2014 19:23:37	For me the PC's have to expend a hd to heal to constitue a short rest. If they are out of HD then they cannot short rest they need a long rest to recover. Kind of an exhaustion thing.  Also it may not be an hour but I will roll for a random encounter and my table has learned to scout out and fortify just in case. Nothing in the world stops.     In turn this cuts down on spamming short rest. There is a distinct function of healing and rejuvenating from spending the HD.
(Reply to #29) Lucas_Blackstone	Yeah, our group has a person who really dislikes short rests. I'm not sure why. The game is designed with them in mind ( and some classes really needing them in opinion ).
#31 blake_marlowe Aug 17, 2014 20:27:42	you know, having run a 4e campaign since shortly after the edition was released, i've never once seen a group reluctant to take a short rest. long rests, sure, but at least in 4e, most encounters did not realistically penalize the adventurers for taking a 5 minute break to catch their breath and the like.   i haven't had more than a few hrs experience with 5e and that was only during the playtest last year, but still can't say i've noticed SR phobia so far. perhaps that will change once i get in some live table experience though.
(Reply to #28) Ashrym	seti wrote:
(Reply to #31) Ashrym	blake_marlowe wrote:
(Reply to #9) Shiroiken	TheLyons wrote:
#35 Mephi1234 Aug 18, 2014 5:35:41	You know, after looking at the battle master, elemental monk, and the warlock, I have to say that I came to the conclusion that there is a number of sub-classes in 5e that are very much inspired by the 4e playstyle, where you are assumed to take short breaks between every battle.     I mean, while you can play the warlock easily as a purely at-will caster, there's more than enough ways to build the warlock as an AEDU caster - and that's just not viable without more short rests.   And that is why, in the DMG, we're going to be getting modules for playing with 5 minute short rests instead of the default hour.   Because that's how 4e worked.      Short rest based builds need that kind of thing.
#36 Chakrum Aug 18, 2014 6:04:38	My house rule is no more than two short rests in an adventuring day.
#37 Emerikol. Aug 18, 2014 6:05:52	Iorwerth wrote:
(Reply to #37) Solace	I am amused. The Original poster was wondering how to convince the party to take a rest when one is honestly needed, and 3/4 of this thread is in discussion on how to slow a party down from taking them.   One person hit it, in my opinion. Folks who play or played AD&D tend to want to avoid rests at all costs(me, for one) while those who 'grew up' on 4e tend to be the 'sprinkle liberally' sort. I seem to want to press on and have to be reminded that hey. We /need/ to take a rest. Also perhaps, anyone caught up in the story will worry that taking an hour will wreck their chances of accomplishing the mission, so as a gm, reassurance might be in order.
#39 iserith Aug 18, 2014 6:59:16	Solace wrote:
#40 TiaNadiezja Aug 18, 2014 7:17:16	In the first adventure of my campaign, where there were no plot-based time constraints but there were random encounter checks, the characters were taking short rests when they found easily defensible rooms and retreating to the entrance for a long rest every 4-5 encounters. Since that was the behavior I wanted to see, it looked to me like a resounding success. Adventure 2 will have some slight time pressure and monster populations that shift around in the dungeon to fill power vacuums. That should produce different behavior.
#41 Mistwell Aug 18, 2014 7:36:37	Iorwerth wrote:
#42 Iorwerth Aug 18, 2014 8:12:59	Mistwell wrote:
#43 autolycus Aug 18, 2014 8:25:22	I require that party members consume a unit of rations/water whenever they take a short rest (x2 for a long rest).   If you also use the variant encumberance rules (5 lb per Str point) you will create a situation where there are only so many useful rests the party can take with what they are carrying.   And the chance of an encounter during a rest is always a looming threat.
#44 Polaris Aug 18, 2014 8:36:04	autolycus wrote:
#45 Lawolf Aug 18, 2014 8:47:28	I have a much bigger issue with casters always wanting to take a long rest. It is ridiculous. I'm fully ready to go after a short rest as a fighter, but the wizard and cleric are down a few spell slots so want to take a long rest and face our problems the next day. Stupid legacy f the crystal shard puts no time constraints on anything (not that the rest of the murderhobos in our group care if "the princess" dies).    In summary, daily resources are dumb.
#46 autolycus Aug 18, 2014 8:50:05	Polaris wrote:
#47 iserith Aug 18, 2014 8:50:29	Lawolf wrote:
#48 Iorwerth Aug 18, 2014 8:58:19	iserith wrote:
#49 Lawolf Aug 18, 2014 9:03:54	iserith wrote:
#50 Iorwerth Aug 18, 2014 9:20:39	Lawolf wrote:
#51 Gazra Aug 18, 2014 9:29:16	Lawolf wrote:
#52 iserith Aug 18, 2014 9:34:31	Iorwerth wrote:
#53 Lawolf Aug 18, 2014 9:49:40	Gazra wrote:
#54 iserith Aug 18, 2014 10:01:03	Lawolf wrote:
#55 Iorwerth Aug 18, 2014 10:07:21	iserith wrote:
(Reply to #46) JDizzleton	autolycus wrote:
#57 Lawolf Aug 18, 2014 10:17:04	iserith wrote:
#58 Brock_Landers Aug 18, 2014 11:03:10	iserith wrote:
#59 Brock_Landers Aug 18, 2014 11:05:00	Lawolf wrote:
#60 iserith Aug 18, 2014 11:21:36	Brock_Landers wrote:
#61 Brock_Landers Aug 18, 2014 11:31:37	iserith wrote:
#62 Tony_Vargas Aug 18, 2014 12:04:06	Brock_Landers wrote:
#63 Brock_Landers Aug 18, 2014 12:37:30	Tony_Vargas wrote:
#64 Lawolf Aug 18, 2014 12:51:22	Tony_Vargas wrote:
(Reply to #63) Lucas_Blackstone	Some people have this weird notion that the party should be forced to choose between going on with deplenished resources ( no short rest ) or a punishment for taking one. I don't see why that should happen frequently. It CAN happen, but the DM shouldn't go out of their way designing encounters all the time so that a party is severely disadvantaged for taking a short rest, when the whole point is so they can continue on.   The popular " you are inside the BBEG's fort " scenario is a good case for it being too dangerous to stop for short rests more then after the first fight maybe, where word hasn't spread that the fort is under attack yet, so on and so forth.   Normal dungeons should allow for several short rests unless it isn't really a dungeon crawl and more of a base/lair being invaded. If the monsters would hang out in their rooms normally, there's no reason that suddenly the short rest detector goes off and they need to break out of the routines they normally had of sitting in their room to instead mobilize and come interrupt the short rest. Seems like meta cheese on the DMs part.   Several classes need the short rests to regain important class feature use that they are supposed to have more then once per day. I'm not saying short rest after each fight, but there's no reason not to since you don't know when you will get one later, to take one when you hit the 50 percent mark of resource use as an example. Even though you could keep going, if it seems safe enough to rest now instead of later, it should probably be done. Obviously each case is different, but as an overall rule of thumb I think it's fine.
#66 Tony_Vargas Aug 18, 2014 17:13:23	Lawolf wrote:
#67 iserith Aug 18, 2014 13:10:02	Lucas_Blackstone wrote:
(Reply to #65) Shiroiken	Lucas_Blackstone wrote:
#69 Thank_Dog Aug 18, 2014 14:08:05	Solace wrote: