Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Slit518 Jul 06, 2015 15:40:22	Well, Wizards of the Coast has showed us the Psionic class they are attempting to craft. It still uses powers, and Psi points, and all that fun jazz. But, should it be similar to other casters, specifically the Sorcerer? Where at certain spell levels they can choose Psionic powers from their own personal spell list, have meta magic feats to enhance their spells, etc...? Instead of a spell list it could be called a power list, and instead of meta magic it could be meta powers. Also, the base Psionic could start with no armor and just simple weapons, where as the different disciplines could add to the starting equipment, saves, and skill list.  These discipliens could be picked up at level 1 to define your psionic overall. 1) Combat based Psionic, with medium armor, and martial weapons. 2) Skill/Stealth based Psionic, with light armor, and limited martial weapons. 3) Magical Psionic, grants more Psionic powers, more meta powers.
#2 Ath-kethin Jul 06, 2015 17:11:46	I have absolutely no interest in yet another caster that is exactly the same as other casters. As has been discussed before, just use the spell points option from the DMG with a sorcerer if this is your goal. Also, in 2e at least, psionicist were proficient in some lighter armors and some decent weapons. I like that this new incarnation has remained more true to the 2e version than the differently-named-sorcerer take of 3e and 4e. For he same reason, I like the return to the Psionics are Different approach - though I actually do think that spells and Psionics should interact a bit more than the current version allows.
#3 mrpopstar Jul 06, 2015 18:22:12	Would be interesting if they reimagined the current sorcerer as a spellcaster who can cast spells using psionic energy, like monsters with the Innate Spellcasting (Psionics) feature.   Unify the metamagic and psionic discipline mechanics...
#4 ModusPonens Jul 06, 2015 19:36:50	Let's get the whole horse out of the barn before we start carving the thing up.
#5 rampant Jul 06, 2015 20:12:45	I tend to think of it like this. There is a spectrum of rigidity vs. flexibility as far as individual powers go. Wizards are on the extreme end, each wizard spell is largely self contained and will be the same in each casting. A Psionic class should be closer to the other extreme where their powers are defined by modification rather than just the base effect, and each casting will likely be at least somewhat different compared to the previous ones. Sorcerers are somewhere in the middle.
#6 mrpopstar Jul 06, 2015 20:27:21	rampant wrote:
#7 lawrencehoy Jul 07, 2015 3:46:43	rampant wrote:
#8 Lord_Ventnor Jul 06, 2015 23:06:55	Slit518 wrote:
#9 rampant Jul 07, 2015 6:46:10	THe UA article was simply too incomplete to be sure of anything it looks promising but we're looking at a rather fragmented chunk of class design. I do liek that it seemed to be a focused telepathic class rather than trying to make eveything fit under a single class the way they did with wizard.
#10 Ralif_Redhammer Jul 07, 2015 8:03:17	I'd have preferred just adding a new psychic path for the sorcerer, than the completely new psionic system. Though the complication there would be making sure it's different enough from the Far Realm pact Warlock, what with psionics now tied to the Far Realm.
#11 rampant Jul 07, 2015 8:09:56	Yeah.. NO, casters are a bunch of rigid cherry pickers who are completely unsuited for a decent psionics system.
#12 mrpopstar Jul 07, 2015 8:22:23	Ralif_Redhammer wrote:
#13 lawrencehoy Jul 07, 2015 21:22:33	rampant wrote:
#14 rampant Jul 08, 2015 22:22:45	Och forgot about him.   Hmm it looks like they're going for an interesting work up, every psi has the same skeleton but their sub-class covers most of their features. Interesting.
#15 lawrencehoy Jul 08, 2015 23:55:03	rampant wrote:
#16 mrpopstar Jul 09, 2015 4:55:23	lawrencehoy wrote:
#17 LuisCarlos17f Jul 09, 2015 5:43:07	I don´t reject the idea of a spellcaster class with power points, but that should be magic power source, not psionic power.    Mmmmm maybe the 3.5 warmage could be a sorcerer variant with power points.
#18 rampant Jul 09, 2015 16:02:21	Well psionics certainly can't use spell slots, not only is it boring, it's against archetype.
#19 lawrencehoy Jul 10, 2015 3:22:11	mrpopstar wrote:
#20 mrpopstar Jul 10, 2015 5:17:34	lawrencehoy wrote:
#21 mellored Jul 10, 2015 7:24:24	[quote="Ath-kethin"I like that this new incarnation has remained more true to the 2e version than the differently-named-sorcerer take of 3e and 4e.[/quote]The Mystic powers are pretty similar to the 4e psionic classes.   Where you get an at-will (now a concentraion passive), and can spend PP to cast higher level version of it.       That said, i would actually like to see some "meta-magic" options in the powers. i.e.   Third Eye Psionic Discipline This discipline grants you the ability to open a third eye within your mind, allowing you to perceive things that others miss. Concentration: While concentrating on this discipline, you have blindsight with a radius of 30 feet. Tremorsense (1): As a bonus action, you gain tremorsense with a radius of 30 feet for 1 minute.  Unwavering Eye (1): As a bonus action, you gain advantage on Wisdom checks for 1 minute. Truesight (5): As a bonus action, you gain truesight with a radius of 30 feet for 1 minute.   Sentinal (*), When you use tremorsense, unwavering eye, or truesight, you can expend additional points to make it last longer.  Increase the durration by 10 minutes per point spent. FarSight (*), When you use tremorsense or truesight, you can expend additional points to make it's range greater.  Increase the range by 10' for each point spent.
#22 rampant Jul 10, 2015 8:29:05	Um you want to meta-psionic the meta-psionics? Because that's what those are, the powerpoint activated aspects of the disciplines are the meta-psionic option. Mind thrust is a bit of a simpler example but it seems like the power point mods are already a thing.
#23 mellored Jul 10, 2015 9:06:06	rampant wrote:
(Reply to #23) LuisCarlos17f	mellored wrote:
#25 arnwolf666 Jul 10, 2015 12:58:41	For me, remove V,S, and M components from the Sorcerer and that is a psion.  That plain and simple.  It is perfectly fine for me that others feel different.
#26 shintashi Jul 11, 2015 9:30:19	i did not like the fact that the Spell/psi point table is LOCKED, meaning every psionicist has exactly the same Psi pool. That really will make them look like Sorcerers if the 13th level Sorcerer and 13th level Psionicist ALWAYS have the same points..   Also didn't like that in several level increments, the DMG spell point table has gaps where their points don't change. That's totally different from Psionicists.   What I propose, as a simple fix, is an expanded table. Perhaps you add your intelligence Modifier or Wisdom Modifier to your level, and then consult a Table to determine Psi Points. That would mean you could possibly have more points, or you could have less points. In another thread I proposed Two other Systems to get them further away from Spell Point Sorcerers. The first system let them use Crystals and Gemstones to store 1 extra Psi Point per 100 GP of value, by attuning to these objects. If treated like magic items, they could in theory have up to 3 different crystals holding extra Psi points, thus they wouldn't exactly have identical "Spell Points". In my second method, they could boost damage dice by +1/die by doubling Psi point activation cost, +2/die by tripling cost, +3/die by quadrupling cost, and so on, up to a max multiplier equal to their Intelligence modifier. To balance it, apply 1 level of exhaustion per +1, thus an intelligence of 20, with a +5 modifier, would inflict +5 damage per die rolled, and inflict 5 levels of Exhaustion (0 move, disadvantage to everything, and lose half hit points. Headaches, nose and eyes bleeding, all the good stuff. Takes 5 long rests to recover, making it resemble a 1/week power).   So here is method 3 of messing with Psi Points to avoid looking like a Spell Point Sorcerer Clone: Level + Int Mod = Total   Total. . . Psi Points 0 . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . 4 4 . . . . . . 6 5 . . . . . . 14 6 . . . . . . 17 7 . . . . . . 27 8 . . . . . . 32 9 . . . . . . 38 10 . . . . . 44 11 . . . . . 57 12 . . . . . 64 13 . . . . . 73 14 . . . . . 73 (78) 15 . . . . . 83   16 . . . . . 83  (88) 17 . . . . . 94  18 . . . . . 94  (99) 19 . . . . . 107  20 . . . . . 114  21 . . . . . 123  22 . . . . . 133  23 . . . . . 142 24 . . . . . 151 25 . . . . . 160 26 . . . . . 169 27 . . . . . 178 28 . . . . . 187 29 . . . . . 196 30 . . . . . 205     I basically took the epic boon of spell recovery, used the 9th level slot, and added it each time. To get a total of 0, you would have to have an 8 or 9 in wisdom/intelligence, which is about as low as stats go. To get a 30/205 psi, you would have to be level 30 with an attribute of 30. The bold values are reprensative of possible intermediary Psi point totals. I displaced this table by minus 2 levels, so that an attribute of 14 yields normal, and an attribute of 16 produces 1 level higher, somewhat like Specialist Wizards used to get more spell points in Spells & Magic.
#27 rampant Jul 11, 2015 9:52:08	Or hey instead of repeating the madness that was spell creep in 3e we could just make a feat that ups your psi points.
#28 shintashi Jul 11, 2015 15:29:27	rampant wrote:
#29 Marandahir Jul 11, 2015 18:03:32	Too complicated. Martial Adept, Arcane Initiate, Divine Initiate, Primal Initiate, etc these feats are all useful for the classes they're emulating, while also being useful for the emulators. Give it a Psionic Adept or Wild Talent feat where you get a 3 or so Psi Points and a single discipline. You're not able to do the 5-PP feature without taking it again or being a Mystic, but you can use the 2PP feature at least once.
#30 arnwolf666 Jul 23, 2015 20:06:09	I know many will completely disagree with me, but for me the Sorcerer should be the Psion.  Just remove the V,S, and M components and be careful with the spell selection.  Different bloodlines just represenet that other races have more psychic potential than humans.  Maybe humans have no psionic potential on their own and it is their bloodline they are derived from, but it doesn't have to be that way.
#31 rampant Jul 23, 2015 21:18:47	Why though? I mean even assumign the sorceror has the spell list to pull it off, and granted he's probably the best choice for a psionic type among the casters, but that's like saying the best choice for a chocolate bar among the vanilla ice creams.   Sorcerors, being spell casters, learn their powers entirely the wrong way, use their powers almost entirely the wrong way, though again the sorceror is the least bad here, and just generally aren't psychic. It's sort of like saying that because a wizard in 3e could cast tenser's transformation that you don't need a fighter class.
(Reply to #31) arnwolf666	rampant wrote:
#33 rampant Jul 25, 2015 12:29:08	Actually what I know of medieval myths doens't include a lot fo what I'd call psionic types. MOst of those archetypes come from celtic and nordic mythos. Magic users tended to be warlocks or clergy in the middle ages mythos.
(Reply to #33) arnwolf666	rampant wrote: