Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zardnaar Nov 14, 2014 12:18:16	Last wee we got hold of some guns apparently they were previewed on the DMG.I had a play with one last week but have barely used it maybe 2-3 rounds. Its one of the advanced ones and has a 5 round clip and deals 2d10 damge.    y PC has medium armor (+2 dex) and the gun is a +1 weapon or at least the advanced one we got is. I am the onlyperson proficint in martial weapons with a dex bonus so I ended up with it an it has a dark visions scope.    1st major magical I tem I have got since level 4 currently 10 (+2 short sword as a valor bard maybe).    So I have +7 to hit with it (4 prof, +2 dex, +1 weapon) as opposed to +10 to hit with a +2 short sword (+4 prof, +4 strength, +2 weapon).   Vicious Mockery is my ranged at will cantroip, 2d4+disadvantage DC 16 wis save. The gun offers +7 tohit 2d10+3 damage.    I have 51 shots for the rifle, ammo supply is if you can find it. In effect it is almost like a pre 4E wand with charges.    Not compaining its better thn apoke in the eye with a sharp stick. My normal damge is anemic at level 10, 2 attacks at 1d6+6 so the gun does upgrade my damage at the price of accuracy. We are about to hit level 11 as well so fighters get attack number 3 and she is the big hitter anyway, I shield bash or use spells most of the time.    Anyway what are peoples thoughts on guns in general and in this situation? I have the shield master feat so not sure if I want to switch to a ranged PC or just use it on occasion.
#2 SterlingRat Nov 14, 2014 12:59:59	Zardnaar wrote:
#3 AaronOfBarbaria Nov 14, 2014 12:59:12	I like the guns (and related explosives and alien tech).     My setting is final fantasy inspired, so having random bits of "high" tech sprinkled into the generally pseudo-midieval setting is just what the doctor ordered.
#4 Zardnaar Nov 14, 2014 13:04:01	SterlingRat wrote:
#5 Shasarak Nov 14, 2014 13:20:14	Zardnaar wrote:
#6 Zardnaar Nov 14, 2014 13:21:32	Shasarak wrote:
#7 seti Nov 14, 2014 13:38:11	Odd that anyone with proficiency with martial weapons is proficient with a gun...I assume guns are nonexistant or rare as hell in typical campaign worlds, homebrew or not.   Now, I use a steampunky setting, so, they are available at a high GP price, and for a feat to gain proficiency. Although, I did make a gunslinger class ability available to martial PCs that can be swapped out for another martial ability. (This is in 4e.) I dunno how to handle firearms in 5e yet. I don't think I want to let anyone proficient with martial weapons to automatacially have proficiency with guns, however.   Also, agian for 4e, my guns target REF, not AC.
#8 SterlingRat Nov 14, 2014 13:39:26	Zardnaar wrote:
#9 Zardnaar Nov 14, 2014 13:41:52	seti wrote:
#10 Zardnaar Nov 14, 2014 13:42:41	SterlingRat wrote:
#11 Elfcrusher Nov 14, 2014 13:46:14	Use a Wish spell to get a machine shop. Profit.
#12 Zardnaar Nov 14, 2014 13:57:59	Elfcrusher wrote:
(Reply to #9) seti	Zardnaar wrote:
(Reply to #10) SterlingRat	Zardnaar wrote:
#15 Zardnaar Nov 14, 2014 14:00:04	seti wrote:
(Reply to #15) seti	Zardnaar wrote:
#17 Zardnaar Nov 14, 2014 14:09:00	seti wrote:
(Reply to #16) Shirebrok	seti wrote:
(Reply to #7) Azzy1974	seti wrote:
#20 SterlingRat Nov 14, 2014 16:05:44	I've heard a couple theories about the reason fantasy worlds with magic tend not to advance in technology... The innovative and scholarly minds that would be needed to make the tech advances dedicate themselves to magical learning instead. The gods prevent it. Chemical reactions don't work the same...
(Reply to #20) AaronOfBarbaria	SterlingRat wrote:
#22 Nesian42Ryukaiel Nov 14, 2014 17:43:24	Or to think in a more sinister way, since the magic-users have all the political and economical power, they'd not be that foolish so that they would allow the birth of a technology that could match up with their magical powers...
#23 seti Nov 14, 2014 18:42:24	Really, magic isn't all that different than technology. I have a cell phone, and a TV, a PC, a car, and a DSLR (among other things, of course). I don't know how they work exactly. I could not build any of those things from scratch. Just like I cannot cast spells that actually do things to the fabric of reality. Casters can make things that work for anyone. Like a +1 sword, or whatever. They can also cast teleport for a fee...Hopefully no delays, searches, or banned nail clippers, though...   Even if Wizards are rare (just like tech engineers with good ideas and millions of dollars to open factories are rare), I still don't think a planet with multiple spell using cultures would advance technology much past things like crossbows, steel, wheels, and windmills, etc. if every town had at least one wizard and at least one cleric.   Medical tech really doesn't need to advance in such a world, as every cleric can restore 8 HP or so a few times a day, regardless of the type of injury. As long as the wounded isn't dead, all you need is level 1 clerics to make them better, lol. Of course, higher level clerics are needed for diseases, and raising from the dead. But still, modern medicine doesn't even come close to a D&D cleric in awesomeness. (Sadly.)
#24 Zardnaar Nov 14, 2014 18:38:09	5E rules a 3rd level cleric can cure disease. Won't do much to a pandemic like the black death but rare diseases are easy to solve.
(Reply to #16) 1eejit	seti wrote:
#26 Mecheon Nov 15, 2014 3:28:28	seti wrote:
(Reply to #25) Azzy1974	1eejit wrote:
#28 BlackScarPaladin Nov 15, 2014 13:24:00	Actually, in my setting here's how it [will go/went] (stupid time travel): Gnome alchemist discovers explosive compound, uses it to make a "better" crossbow.  Someone enchants it to be repeating, to which someone else responds by making a gun that repeats on its own, so it can be more easily enchanted while retaining that property, and so on and so on.  Technology can reproduce effects otherwise magical, and THEN be enchanted! It's a win/win! (Unless you're on the receiving end of the weapon, in which case....well, your sword will make a nice mantlepiece!)
#29 Luis_Carlos Nov 15, 2014 14:07:27	Do remember firearms also can be used by enemies.   In the D&D worlds there isn´t arcanepunk technology (but Eberron) because the gods and spellcasters block the industrial revolution. Which general would buy firearms if the enemy Ares' cleric can summon an antiballistic shield?    If there are firearms we need magic item to protect ourself againts enemy gunslingers.
#30 Zardnaar Nov 15, 2014 14:48:51	Luis_Carlos wrote:
#31 Ahrimon Nov 15, 2014 15:46:49	I wonder if you could use the fabricate spell to bypass the machining requirements of making more.
#32 Illithidbix Nov 15, 2014 18:44:18	For reasons I'm fully aware aren’t entirely rational I'm always a bit uneasy with guns in D&D.   It's a quirk of the AC/HP mechanics and awkwardly dealing with the idea that guns are in some way armour piercing.... but the rules feel really out of whack when they're introduced, because they're not a part of the game already.   From my vague and dubious understanding on military history: In actual fact, the longbow was also a lethal armour piercing weapon and might well have been more effective against plate and mail then many early firearms. Early guns became popular at a time when the heavily armoured knight was already in decline and really it was massive intimidation factor and cost effectiveness of lots of vaguely trained peasants with arquebuses even if technically a longbow man who'd trained since childhood was far more dangerous. Battle were very nasty but were mostly run by morale and forcing the other guy to run away rather than wholesale slaughter. Some of course were just wholescale slaughter.   But questions of effective armour penetration between longbow vs guns aside it's a matter of imagining the fight and the changes that gun fights bring.   It's not really a question of realism, this is a game of magic and knights fighting dragons after all. But when I imagine a heroic battle with swords and sorcery my sense of verisimilitude* gets shifted when I imagine guns being introduced I imagine gun battles as being about cover, snapshots vs aimed shots, suppression and lines of fire, regardless if it's western, WW2, modern or futuristic.   For whatever abstractions of AC and hitpoints, for some bizarre reason I have issues with people being shot repeatedly rather than hit with swords, filled with arrows or mauled by sixty ton reptiles that can breath fire and fly.   I should probably get into my head the 3 musketeers mindset where people fight with swords and no one seems to actually successfully hit anyone with a gun...   *A word I love for RPG debates, it means “illusion of reality”
#33 MechaPilot Nov 15, 2014 19:00:49	Illithidbix wrote:
#34 JohnLynch Nov 15, 2014 23:36:39	In my game guns have never taken off. Back when dragons still existed, saltpetre was known as dragon peppers and was a delicacy among red dragons. Everything is firmly grounded in medieval times with magic being quite rare. The elves once had great arcane kingdoms centered on the southern continent. However they destroyed themselves as war broke out and transformed their land into a wasteland. The surviving elves either swore off magic altogether (wood elves) or established a secret police force that watches over the land to ensure the devastating magics never get reinvented.   So for my world magic is quite rare and with most people living in a feudal setup there isn't much innovation for technology. That said, guns can come to the world at any point. When the rock gnomes were driven from their homeland a city learned how to activate an ancient elven portal which allowed them to escape to the ruins of an elven city on the the southern continent. These gnomes have been rediscovering the ancient elven magic and innovating in new areas. This city is becoming a bustling metropolis and is attracting all sorts of people looking to push the boundaries of science and magic. As such guns could be invented at anytime and could take the world by storm. Or it could remain a curiosity that never really gets it's full potential realized (becoming just one of many quirky inventions). Or the secret high elven police force could decide to take out the entire city to stop the magic that's being discovered from proliferating.   Am I likely to introduce guns? I'd probably introduce it to begin with and let my players decide if they want it. That said, it would be prohibitively expensive. At least to begin with.
#35 Luis_Carlos Nov 17, 2014 12:06:50	Magic againts firearms may be really easy, even with a catrip. Creating a little piece of ectoplam you can water the gunpower or to block the canon. With illusory magic you could create a great fog in the battlefield and the canons and musketeers couldn´t aim far objetives. Maybe in a fantasy world the magic crossbow that reloads itself would be more popular. Or beast contolled by telepathy would be sent to go to a zone carring a magic teletransportation rune.    In my settins the alchemist adventures use anti-magic seals to avoid their explosive products to can be fired by enemy spellcasters.
#36 Timborama Nov 17, 2014 13:03:43	Did anyone else see the thread title, read the OP, and then breathe a sigh of relief when they realized that he was talking about IN game?