Sorcerers - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dmgorgon Nov 12, 2014 8:51:28	Is this class really on par with other arcane classes? I'm finding the small number of spells known by the sorc to be very limiting. Ultimately, the wizard will get over 40 spells for free and that doesn't include those spells he can add to his book. How does this compare to a total of 15 spells for the sorc? Is it correct that even the Bard will know more spells?
#2 Luis_Carlos Nov 12, 2014 9:14:31	Has anybody thought about rituals where sorcerers can spending spell-slots to create single-use magic item (potions, tatoos, runes, talismans..) with spells ouf of her list? That is my little solution. A sorcerer with "feather fall" could craft a magic tatoo with that spell to be used during a emergency. The prequisite is to be using the spell book during the ritual. I would like a sorceress subclass where she could spend "monster points" (like mutations from d20 Future or the demonbinder prestige class from "drows of underdark) to "buy" monster traits (wings, natural weapons, breath attacks). * Have you thought "summon monster" could be more vesatile in a sorcerer's hands if she is enough creative? For example a monster to heal (a special monster templare from 3.5 Planar handbook), and another summoned monster with different type of damage (fire, ice, electricity..).
#3 AaronOfBarbaria Nov 12, 2014 9:15:56	Yes, the sorcerer is on par. It has the least number of known spells, but it is the best as casting those which it does know because of meta magic. Then there is the seemingly often forgotten ability to trade spell slots for spell points and vice versa which is currently an exclusive feature of the sorcerer class. It only seems sub-par when you compare only how much the sorcerer gets of what all the other arcane casters get, but if you flip the script and compare how much of what the sorcerer gets to how much of those things other arcane casters get... there aren't "well these guys get 40+ and I only get 15," so much as there are "the sorcerer gets some of that and no one else does."
#4 Cyber-Dave Nov 12, 2014 9:17:45	dmgorgon wrote:
#5 dmgorgon Nov 12, 2014 9:27:47	Those are all good points. I just find it strange that you can't have at least 2 spells of each spell level.
#6 Lawolf Nov 12, 2014 9:29:02	dmgorgon wrote:
#7 dmgorgon Nov 12, 2014 9:32:18	Lawolf wrote:
#8 Luis_Carlos Nov 12, 2014 9:34:04	What do you think about the idea of magic item for metamagic efects? For example a magic rune for the metamagic feat "subtitution of energy", to change fire damage to ice, for example? * What is your opinion about the sorcere`s "cousins", the favored soul and the psionic wilder? The favored soul with the right class features could be a interesting source of conflict between standar clerics, the favored souls and psionic ardetns, with stories abou hate-love relations... * The complete champion handbook showed a variant, the divine sorcerer who could get from a list of cleric´s domain, even healing domain. Would you allow a divine sorcerer with healing spells?
#9 dmgorgon Nov 12, 2014 9:39:43	Luis_Carlos wrote:
#10 DaveDash Nov 12, 2014 13:11:52	The Sorcerer is a better combat mage, the Wizard is a better adventuring mage.
#11 Timborama Nov 12, 2014 13:16:15	I love sorcerer, even with its limited spells known (but with bonus cantrip!). But I only have 2 problems with it: Metamagic progressions (2 at 2nd level, then 1 at level 10, then 1 more at 17th level for 4 total. That doesn't sit well with me!) and Comparative Features (In a casting sense, they're akin to the wizard or bard. But Wizards get some juicy class stuff, comparatively, because they get their basic class stuff ON TOP of their School subclasses!) But maybe #2 is mostly because there's only 2 subclasses to Wizard's 8, and I'm not the biggest fan of Wild Mage...
#12 arnwolf666 Nov 12, 2014 15:32:19	It ticks me off to no end seeing the sorcerer have the metamagic ability that should have gone to the wizard. The sorcerer should have had more bloodline abilities instead. Just my tastes and desires.
#13 mellored Nov 12, 2014 16:02:46	DaveDash wrote:
#14 seti Nov 12, 2014 21:31:36	I just want more than two bloodlines. That's weak. Off the top of my head, there should have at least been an elemental bloodline. Split into 4 elements/element masteries, of course. There could also be an undead bloodline. That'd be fun. I agree that the sorc is (well, should be) the ultimate blaster caster. A wizard, IMO, is like a Leatherman (That's why 5e wizards are awesome. They just win at AEDU abilities, and utility casting.). Sure, it has a knife; but a fixed blade, full tang bowie is just better in a fight. I haven't played or DMed a sorcerer yet, though. That alone says something...out of 4 PCs (plus me DMing), no one wanted to roll one up in 5e yet... The 5e ranger and warlock also didn't get any love either. My friends (and I agree) feel that the ranger and sorcerer aren't interesting enough anymore, and the warlock has wierd, overly-complicated casting mechanics. This could be easily fixed with splatbooks. Or massive homebrewing.
#15 vonklaude Nov 12, 2014 22:27:02	Luis_Carlos wrote:
#16 arnwolf666 Nov 12, 2014 22:49:45	The wizard has pretty much been castrated in this edition. And I say this as a person that loves Dwarven Fighters and Half-Orc Barbarians. I really can't see what they are good for: Damage No, Shapechainging-see Druid, Summoning-see Druid, Defense spells-see Cleric, spells that buff-see Cleric, Metamagic-see Sorcerer. My group just doesn't see the use for a wizard anymore. This is the edition for the people that really hated wizards.
#17 Elfcrusher Nov 12, 2014 23:51:27	seti wrote:
#18 MonsterEnvy Nov 12, 2014 23:55:39	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #17) seti	Elfcrusher wrote:
#20 Luis_Carlos Nov 13, 2014 3:23:00	* Not undead bloodline but "necrotouched bloodline"... and maybe linked with dhampyrs. * I don´t want spellcasters with power points, but it is possible for me a arcane magic item like the psionic cognizance crystals from handbook of psionic powers.. The sorcerer could spend spell slots in the end of the day to recharge. Maybe each crystal had got a different metamagic effect.
#21 mellored Nov 13, 2014 5:57:43	A vampire sorcerer would work pretty well IMO. Level 1: Blood Drain, you do not regain sorcery points durring a long rest, instead regain sorcery points by draining blood. (insert other balancing factors). Sunlight Sensititivity: You take 1d8+your level damage if you end your turn in direct sunlight. You can usually hide yourself with a cloak or other clothing. Darkvision: You have darkvision upto X. If you already had darkvision, increase it by Y. Level 6: You can spend sorcery points to do the following. Polymorph into a bat. Cast Alter self to gain a natrual weapon. This does not count as concentration. Cast Charm on a humaniod. ??? Level 14: You can create thralls. Level 20: You can create new vampires.
(Reply to #16) Cyber-Dave	arnwolf666 wrote:
#23 Timborama Nov 13, 2014 6:50:06	Cosmologist Sorcerers would be neat (either related to the Far Realm or just just related to the stars in general). Fiendish Sorcerers work, too (since it's about reproduction and not a Warlock's bargain). Elemental Sorcerer is likely to show up in March with Elemental Evil (IF NOT I RIOT!). Fey Sorcerer would also make a lot of sense. Heck, I'd even take a "generalist sorcerer" though that may be closer to Elemental Sorcerer than anything. A "War Mage" would be cool, though...gaining armor and/or weapon proficiencies and some neat abilities (like +Spell damage or a Coordinated Attack spell thing) Also, Arnwolf, I don't know what you're talking about...It's very rare to find anyone who thinks Wizards are nerfed, underpowered, or unplayable. It may not be their preference to play one (like me!) but oh boy are they a fine class!
(Reply to #22) arnwolf666	Cyber-Dave wrote:
(Reply to #18) arnwolf666	MonsterEnvy wrote:
#26 Karnos Nov 13, 2014 7:55:05	dmgorgon wrote:
#27 Cyber-Dave Nov 13, 2014 8:05:08	arnwolf666 wrote:
#28 Cyber-Dave Nov 13, 2014 8:06:38	arnwolf666 wrote:
#29 Luis_Carlos Nov 13, 2014 10:06:37	In the 3.5 "Tome of Battle: book of nine swords" there was a level 1 pose where the PC could recover hitpoints with each suceful attack. A PC who could drink blood to recover hitpoints could break the balance of power, because most of living creatures would be walking healing potions for her. * I have thought about the idea of bloodline "birthmark" linked to a chakra (body slot for magic items). It would be like a magic tatoo but gameplay like a softer version of weapons of legacy. The arcane birthmark could be "crafted" to add more powers, for example monster traits (wings, natural weapons, natural armour, breath attacks). The "birthmark" would work like a (symbiont) monster pet (the rules about henchmen and allies). * Warmage isn´t a subclass but a variant class. The variant classes have got a different list of class features for (almost) all the levels. A warmage would be like the D&D version of Call of Duty: Advanced warfare. I imagine warmages crafting magic arrows for a itself-reload agony crossbow during resting times. Who would play a warmage? The DM, of course. All the classes can be enemy nPCs.
#30 FFSAA Nov 13, 2014 10:37:07	They come off as being one trick ponies using certain metamagic on certain spells. Power wise they're probably not the top, interest wise however, they're definetly on the bottom.
(Reply to #24) DaveDash	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #12) Helaman	arnwolf666 wrote:
#33 sleypy Nov 16, 2014 7:05:05	Helaman wrote:
#42 Elfcrusher Nov 17, 2014 19:59:21	Feat chain in 4e, you say? Well that proves my point right there. /ducks
#43 FFSAA Nov 17, 2014 21:55:46	Zardnaar wrote:
#44 Zardnaar Nov 18, 2014 0:50:19	FFSAA wrote:
#45 Samrin Nov 18, 2014 2:12:50	Angel got another vampire (Darla) pregnant. His son's name was Connor. I can't believe I know that..

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

dmgorgon

Nov 12, 2014 8:51:28

Is this class really on par with other arcane classes?

I'm finding the small number of spells known by the sorc to be very limiting.

Ultimately, the wizard will get over 40 spells for free and that doesn't include those spells he can add to his book. How does this compare to a total of 15 spells for the sorc? Is it correct that even the Bard will know more spells?

Luis_Carlos

Nov 12, 2014 9:14:31

Has anybody thought about rituals where sorcerers can spending spell-slots to create single-use magic item (potions, tatoos, runes, talismans..) with spells ouf of her list? That is my little solution. A sorcerer with "feather fall" could craft a magic tatoo with that spell to be used during a emergency. The prequisite is to be using the spell book during the ritual.

I would like a sorceress subclass where she could spend "monster points" (like mutations from d20 Future or the demonbinder prestige class from "drows of underdark) to "buy" monster traits (wings, natural weapons, breath attacks).

* Have you thought "summon monster" could be more vesatile in a sorcerer's hands if she is enough creative? For example a monster to heal (a special monster templare from 3.5 Planar handbook), and another summoned monster with different type of damage (fire, ice, electricity..).

AaronOfBarbaria

Nov 12, 2014 9:15:56

Yes, the sorcerer is on par.

It has the least number of known spells, but it is the best as casting those which it does know because of meta magic.

Then there is the seemingly often forgotten ability to trade spell slots for spell points and vice versa which is currently an exclusive feature of the sorcerer class.

It only seems sub-par when you compare only how much the sorcerer gets of what all the other arcane casters get, but if you flip the script and compare how much of what the sorcerer gets to how much of those things other arcane casters get... there aren't "well these guys get 40+ and I only get 15," so much as there are "the sorcerer gets some of that and no one else does."

Cyber-Dave

Nov 12, 2014 9:17:45

dmgorgon wrote:

dmgorgon

Nov 12, 2014 9:27:47

Those are all good points. I just find it strange that you can't have at least 2 spells of each spell level.

Lawolf

Nov 12, 2014 9:29:02

dmgorgon wrote:

dmgorgon

Nov 12, 2014 9:32:18

Lawolf wrote:

Luis_Carlos

Nov 12, 2014 9:34:04

What do you think about the idea of magic item for metamagic efects? For example a magic rune for the metamagic feat "subtitution of energy", to change fire damage to ice, for example?

* What is your opinion about the sorcere`s "cousins", the favored soul and the psionic wilder? The favored soul with the right class features could be a interesting source of conflict between standar clerics, the favored souls and psionic ardetns, with stories abou hate-love relations...

* The complete champion handbook showed a variant, the divine sorcerer who could get from a list of cleric´s domain, even healing domain. Would you allow a divine sorcerer with healing spells?

dmgorgon

Nov 12, 2014 9:39:43

Luis_Carlos wrote:

#10

DaveDash

Nov 12, 2014 13:11:52

The Sorcerer is a better combat mage, the Wizard is a better adventuring mage.

#11

Timborama

Nov 12, 2014 13:16:15

I love sorcerer, even with its limited spells known (but with bonus cantrip!). But I only have 2 problems with it:

Metamagic progressions (2 at 2nd level, then 1 at level 10, then 1 more at 17th level for 4 total. That doesn't sit well with me!)

and

Comparative Features (In a casting sense, they're akin to the wizard or bard. But Wizards get some juicy class stuff, comparatively, because they get their basic class stuff ON TOP of their School subclasses!)

But maybe #2 is mostly because there's only 2 subclasses to Wizard's 8, and I'm not the biggest fan of Wild Mage...

#12

arnwolf666

Nov 12, 2014 15:32:19

It ticks me off to no end seeing the sorcerer have the metamagic ability that should have gone to the wizard. The sorcerer should have had more bloodline abilities instead. Just my tastes and desires.

#13

mellored

Nov 12, 2014 16:02:46

DaveDash wrote:

#14

seti

Nov 12, 2014 21:31:36

I just want more than two bloodlines. That's weak. Off the top of my head, there should have at least been an elemental bloodline. Split into 4 elements/element masteries, of course. There could also be an undead bloodline. That'd be fun.

I agree that the sorc is (well, should be) the ultimate blaster caster. A wizard, IMO, is like a Leatherman (That's why 5e wizards are awesome. They just win at AEDU abilities, and utility casting.). Sure, it has a knife; but a fixed blade, full tang bowie is just better in a fight.

I haven't played or DMed a sorcerer yet, though. That alone says something...out of 4 PCs (plus me DMing), no one wanted to roll one up in 5e yet... The 5e ranger and warlock also didn't get any love either. My friends (and I agree) feel that the ranger and sorcerer aren't interesting enough anymore*, and the warlock has wierd, overly-complicated casting mechanics.

*This could be easily fixed with splatbooks. Or massive homebrewing.

#15

vonklaude

Nov 12, 2014 22:27:02

Luis_Carlos wrote:

#16

arnwolf666

Nov 12, 2014 22:49:45

The wizard has pretty much been castrated in this edition. And I say this as a person that loves Dwarven Fighters and Half-Orc Barbarians. I really can't see what they are good for: Damage No, Shapechainging-see Druid, Summoning-see Druid, Defense spells-see Cleric, spells that buff-see Cleric, Metamagic-see Sorcerer. My group just doesn't see the use for a wizard anymore. This is the edition for the people that really hated wizards.

#17

Elfcrusher

Nov 12, 2014 23:51:27

seti wrote:

#18

MonsterEnvy

Nov 12, 2014 23:55:39

arnwolf666 wrote:

(Reply to #17)

seti

Elfcrusher wrote:

#20

Luis_Carlos

Nov 13, 2014 3:23:00

* Not undead bloodline but "necrotouched bloodline"... and maybe linked with dhampyrs.

* I don´t want spellcasters with power points, but it is possible for me a arcane magic item like the psionic cognizance crystals from handbook of psionic powers.. The sorcerer could spend spell slots in the end of the day to recharge. Maybe each crystal had got a different metamagic effect.

#21

mellored

Nov 13, 2014 5:57:43

A vampire sorcerer would work pretty well IMO.

Level 1: Blood Drain, you do not regain sorcery points durring a long rest, instead regain sorcery points by draining blood. (insert other balancing factors).

Sunlight Sensititivity: You take 1d8+your level damage if you end your turn in direct sunlight. You can usually hide yourself with a cloak or other clothing.

Darkvision: You have darkvision upto X. If you already had darkvision, increase it by Y.

Level 6: You can spend sorcery points to do the following.

Polymorph into a bat.

Cast Alter self to gain a natrual weapon. This does not count as concentration.

Cast Charm on a humaniod.

???

Level 14: You can create thralls.

Level 20: You can create new vampires.

(Reply to #16)

Cyber-Dave

arnwolf666 wrote:

#23

Timborama

Nov 13, 2014 6:50:06

Cosmologist Sorcerers would be neat (either related to the Far Realm or just just related to the stars in general). Fiendish Sorcerers work, too (since it's about reproduction and not a Warlock's bargain). Elemental Sorcerer is likely to show up in March with Elemental Evil (IF NOT I RIOT!). Fey Sorcerer would also make a lot of sense. Heck, I'd even take a "generalist sorcerer" though that may be closer to Elemental Sorcerer than anything.

A "War Mage" would be cool, though...gaining armor and/or weapon proficiencies and some neat abilities (like +Spell damage or a Coordinated Attack spell thing)

Also, Arnwolf, I don't know what you're talking about...It's very rare to find anyone who thinks Wizards are nerfed, underpowered, or unplayable. It may not be their preference to play one (like me!) but oh boy are they a fine class!

(Reply to #22)

arnwolf666

Cyber-Dave wrote:

(Reply to #18)

arnwolf666

MonsterEnvy wrote:

#26

Karnos

Nov 13, 2014 7:55:05

dmgorgon wrote:

#27

Cyber-Dave

Nov 13, 2014 8:05:08

arnwolf666 wrote:

#28

Cyber-Dave

Nov 13, 2014 8:06:38

arnwolf666 wrote:

#29

Luis_Carlos

Nov 13, 2014 10:06:37

In the 3.5 "Tome of Battle: book of nine swords" there was a level 1 pose where the PC could recover hitpoints with each suceful attack. A PC who could drink blood to recover hitpoints could break the balance of power, because most of living creatures would be walking healing potions for her.

* I have thought about the idea of bloodline "birthmark" linked to a chakra (body slot for magic items). It would be like a magic tatoo but gameplay like a softer version of weapons of legacy. The arcane birthmark could be "crafted" to add more powers, for example monster traits (wings, natural weapons, natural armour, breath attacks). The "birthmark" would work like a (symbiont) monster pet (the rules about henchmen and allies).

* Warmage isn´t a subclass but a variant class. The variant classes have got a different list of class features for (almost) all the levels. A warmage would be like the D&D version of Call of Duty: Advanced warfare. I imagine warmages crafting magic arrows for a itself-reload agony crossbow during resting times.

Who would play a warmage? The DM, of course. All the classes can be enemy nPCs.

#30

FFSAA

Nov 13, 2014 10:37:07

They come off as being one trick ponies using certain metamagic on certain spells. Power wise they're probably not the top, interest wise however, they're definetly on the bottom.

(Reply to #24)

DaveDash

arnwolf666 wrote:

(Reply to #12)

Helaman

arnwolf666 wrote:

#33

sleypy

Nov 16, 2014 7:05:05

Helaman wrote:

#42

Elfcrusher

Nov 17, 2014 19:59:21

Feat chain in 4e, you say? Well that proves my point right there.

/ducks

#43

FFSAA

Nov 17, 2014 21:55:46

Zardnaar wrote:

#44

Zardnaar

Nov 18, 2014 0:50:19

FFSAA wrote:

#45

Samrin

Nov 18, 2014 2:12:50

Angel got another vampire (Darla) pregnant. His son's name was Connor. I can't believe I know that..