One section on character details on page 33 has made me incredibly happy. For me personally, it's the last sentence, and I'm sure others will feel the same way about the rest of it:
You don't need to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender. The elf god Corellon Larethian is often seen as androgynous or hermaphroditic, for example, and some elves in the multiverse are made in Corellon's image. You could also play a female character who presents herself as a man, a man who feels trapped in a female body, or a bearded female dwarf who hates being mistaken for a male. Likewise, your character's sexual orientation is for you to decide.
Thank you WOTC, thank you Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford and all at D&D! This is truly amazing!
I fully agree!
Nice. Very refreshing to see this, especially in a game that roots itself in self-expression as much as D&D does.
Yup, I noticed that, too. Thiis will definitely make some of the people I know happy.
I am speechless and beyond happy about that.
That is awesome! Good job WotC!
Boom! Super respect WotC!
Didn't everyone assume this was true all along? I certainly did.
I feel odd congratulating them for stating the obvious.
It's really awesome. We've come a long way. They deserve some MAD props for going out of their way to state those things. They could have just hand waved in the name of being diplomatic, but instead laid it out there.
Definitely going to be using that bit about Correllon myself.
DemoMonkey wrote:
Gizmoduck_5000 wrote:
CelticPaladin wrote:
"They are making a point to openly support trans, androgynous and gender fluid players, and that is worthy of praise."
They are making a point to openly support trans, androgynous, and gender fluid characters. That is not worthy of praise, it's simply obvious. Your gender and preferences don't have to inform or limit your choice of your characters gender or preference.
I don't disagree with the sentiment. I just find it odd that in this day and age anyone finds it noteworthy.
DemoMonkey wrote:
It's a nicely worded little paragraph, and I think its content more than earns a place in the book. It caused me to double-check the sample character sheet and I noticed that there wasn't even a line for "Sex" or "Gender".
What really saddens me is that in some parts of the world, it's still necessary to spell out these kinds of things... True acceptance is reached when nobody gives a crap. I'm still glad it's in the book. It's still needed in some parts of the world.
"True acceptance is reached when nobody gives a crap."
That's kind of where I was going. However it appears I did not convey that well, for which I apologize.
Gnarl wrote:
Paraxis wrote:
Gnarl wrote:
masterfat78 wrote:
Paraxis wrote:
Paraxis wrote:
On a lighter note...
That paragraph also addresses the much debated topic of female dwarves and beards. ;)
Speaking as a straight white dude (seriously, if you asked a roomful of people who was the the fat 42 year old RPG nerd, they'd all point at me) I was tickled pink to read the paragraph under discussion. I was also happy to note the bit in the Sex heading of Chapter 4 that says, "Think about how your character does or does not conform to the culture's broader expectations of sex, gender and sexual behavior." It feels more inclusive than exclusive, and you can't go wrong with inclusivity.
Everyone who's talking about Texas, I just feel like this conversation doesn't need to include any real-world locations, y'know?
Hitdice wrote:
I think we can call it:
Girdle of Masculinity/Feminity CONFIRMED.
If a Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity did exist in 5E, would it still be considered a "cursed" item?
And if so, would it then fail to work on a character who willingly identifies as the opposite gender? How 'intelligent" would the application of the curse be?
DemoMonkey wrote:
They've been having that conversation on the Paizo messageboards for the last year or so. Apparently, Girdle of Masculinity/Feminity is cursed (you put it on and it switches your physical sex just the one time, no take backs) whereas Cord of Opposite Gender is much more user friendly (you can go back and forth by putting it on and taking it off--I guess that's doffing and donning according to the Basic Equipment chapter-- or just leaving it on all the time, if you're happier that way).
I think it's nice that they decided to come out and proclaim a players ability to create a character who doesn't adhere to society's norms, even though it's a right players have always had. Doesn't seem overly controversial to me, really.
On the other hand, just looking at the random height/weight generation tables challenges my suspense of disbelief a little bit. I guess in a world with dragons and trolls and such, ignoring the real world differential in height and weight between males and females is a trifling matter. It just seemed - odd to me, I guess.
masterfat78 wrote:
SpaceBunny wrote:
I don't believe the height and weight table is meant to convey the full extremes of either, but to make a quick determination if you can't be bothered to pick numbers out of the air or you just loves to roll yourself some dice. Make a 3 foot dwarf named Stumpy or a 5 foot halfling named Stretch. Or a 600 pound elf named Petunia Daintyflower.
DemoMonkey wrote:
So in a game that is completely left up to your imagination, you needed some text to tell you this? Seriously? Its been true since day one of D&D.
I agree with the OP.
I think it is worth congradulations because WoTC is trying to expand its market. For a company to take a stand on a issue like this is a pretty big deal. Considering the recent rulings that let a company partially deny medical coverage to woman due to religion, and how a some states blocks gay marriage (at least one put it in the states constitution), it is unrealistic to treat it like its not big deal.
DemoMonkey wrote:
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Its nice from WoTC to address this
greenleaf9 wrote:
ankiyavon wrote:
+1 to Rationality, Tolerance, and Diversity.
If I may...
I'm one person. I don't speak for all transgender folks. I only speak for myself.
I have loved D&D since I was 12. However, I have always had a problem with the its use of pronouns, lack of diversity, and the condescending and insulting "Note About Pronouns" in the Rules Cyclopedia and AD&D 2nd Edition Player's Handbook (this despite the fact that the RC has always been my favorite version of D&D...until yesterday).
With Page 33, I am finally completely comfortable with the game I love, regardless of who is on the credits page.
What we are seeing is progress, not an absolute. Progress takes time, it takes patience, and it takes forgiveness for past wrongs.
Kiraya_TiDrekan wrote:
Gnarl wrote:
Unless your name is in this section of the credits then I can not see that it makes a hell of a lot of difference one way or another. Especially since they were doing a playtest involving over 175,000 people.
D&D Lead Designers: Mike Mearls, Jeremy Crawford
Rules Development: Rodney Thompson, Peter Lee
Writing: James Wyatt, Robert J. Schwalb, Bruce R. Cordell
Editing: Michele Carter, Chris Sims, Scott Fitzgerald Gray,
Christopher Perkins
Producer: Greg Bilsland
Kiraya_TiDrekan wrote:
BecDeCorbin wrote:
Gnarl wrote:
Particle_Man wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
Haldrik wrote:
Well, since the thread ran out steam (probably partly due to the derailment that I was absolutely a part of), how about we come up with some neat ideas for home play involving non binary characters, or breaking the mold in general?
I have to say I absolutely love the idea of Corellon as either a hermaphroditic or adrogynous deity. When I think of a deity that is hermaphroditic, my thoughts automatically go to Baphomet, that famous alchemical symbol (often associated, sadly, with satanism). It has both male and female features, as well as the head of a goat, and is often associated with wisdom.
Perhaps Elven clerics of Corellon will begin to develop hermaphroditic features as they develop in power and become closer to the diety? Or become more adrogynous?
CelticPaladin wrote:
CelticPaladin wrote:
I'll take it over how loudly Paizo makes a huge deal over how many trannies and gays they have in every adventure to the point of approaching making too big a deal about it. My favorite way of handling this kinda thing, tbh, is to have it and make it seem like a normal part of the world without drawing special attention to it.
The reason I say "without drawing special attention to it" isn't because of "grr keep it outta my game", but because if it's truly accepted in the game world, then it's not going to be a big deal and mentioning how much a dude likes other dudes would be as casual as a dude talking about how much he likes women.
Pretty much how Borderlands handles it. They don't make a big deal about it, but it's very clear it's there(one quest-giver brings up thta a guy is his ex-boyfriend as casually as one mentions an ex-girlfriend, the villain mentions how he has some women's wife hostage, people of all genders hit on your character regardless of what gender they are, etc).
CelticPaladin wrote: