The Fighter Level Dip?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Zardnaar

Mar 31, 2015 11:01:47

It seems to me that a fighter level dip seems to be a no brainer decision for several classes such as Ranger, Warlock (bladelock), Bards (Valor) and perhaps Ranger.

 

 Not this level I assume you start as the fighter then multiclass into your real class. The main reason to do this is for the following features.

 

1. Great saving throws. Mostly constitution but strength is a good save as far as the 3 weak saves go. Proficinecy in con saves is very good for rangers and bladelocks for example, Paladins to a lesser extent.

 

2.  Heavy armor. Bladelocks kind of suck. The single fighter level makes a few of their problems go away. A cleric dip level is competing for spell casters but if you want to cast concentration spells see point 1. 

 
#2

mellored

Mar 31, 2015 11:11:29

I generally like dipping cleric 1 better then fighter 1.  You generally only get +1 AC from a second weapon style.

 

Fighter 2 however, is very pretty strong.

#3

Zardnaar

Mar 31, 2015 11:13:31

Cleric doesn't give proficney in con saves. Its almost like geting warcaster or resilient for free. 

#4

mellored

Mar 31, 2015 11:17:33

Zardnaar wrote:
#5

Mirtek

Mar 31, 2015 12:12:21

mellored wrote:
#6

mellored

Mar 31, 2015 12:24:44

Mirtek wrote:
#7

QwertyAzerty

Mar 31, 2015 12:28:01

If you dip in fighter might as well go to level 2 for action surge (specially with spell caster, allowing you to cast 2 spell for that round, and unlike bonus action, you are not restricted to cantrip, with action surge you can cast fireball twice in a single round if you want)

 

Then a 3rd level in fighter will give you a spellcaster level (so if you go 2 level, might as well go 3 level) and you gain the subclass bonus. For the barbarian with great weapon master, extra crit range from champion is great,for ranger, battle maneuvers are super interesting (some battle maneuvers work with range weapon) and for Guish build, Eldritch knight is very good giving you some additional spell known, cantrip from the wizard spell list and spellcaster level. And even taking 3 level of fighter, you still going to gain your spell level 9 both castable and knowable.

#8

Zardnaar

Mar 31, 2015 20:46:33

QwertyAzerty wrote:
#9

pukunui

Mar 31, 2015 21:26:01

The character I'm playing now is a fighter 1 / paladin 14. I took fighter partly for the better save options but also for the second fighting style (so I could have both Defense and Dueling). I'm still debating whether to take a 2nd level in fighter or not.

#10

Coredump00

Mar 31, 2015 22:26:58

I don't see it as that much of a 'no brainer'

 

You give up a lot in exchange for that level.  For instance, if my Paladin would have gone Fighter 1 to start, it means I would have *just* got my feat, and still would not have Extra Attack. 

 

Is getting +1 AC and Second Wind really worth skipping Extra Attack?

Or next level, is the +1AC and Second wind really worth not getting +2 to all of my saves?

 

 

I guess certain builds could benefit from it, but its far from an obviously good pick.

 

 

#11

Rhenny

Apr 01, 2015 4:15:58

I agree with Coredump.  The opportunity cost of dipping will stop some from doing it when playing from level 1.   On the other hand, if a group skips to level 6 or higher, it is easier make a fighter 1/anything 5 pc because you don't have to play through the level where you get 1 attack while any pure martial gets 2.  

#12

Psikerlord

Apr 02, 2015 4:11:18

Yep starting level Fighter or War Cleric is a no brainer for most classes. One of the reasons I dont allow MCing.

#13

Istbor

Apr 02, 2015 8:06:02

I do not encounter a lot of my players multiclassing.  I know one had wanted to do fighter/wizard, but then Eldrich Knight became a thing, so he went battlemaster....  Regardless, unless your group has a pile of optimizers to whatever extent they optimize, I do not think players level dip as much as say 3e.  There is a lack of incentive aside from a few extra tricks you pick up.

 

I also agree that players seeing others at the table getting stat bumps and extra attacks before they do is a real deturrent.

#14

mellored

Apr 02, 2015 8:21:01

Psikerlord wrote:
#15

Kayal

Apr 02, 2015 9:15:25

Coredump00 wrote:
#16

strider13x

Apr 02, 2015 9:25:19

Ranger loses DEX and WIS Saves and doesn't need heavy armor.

 

Spellcasters could use Armor but have to wait for higher level spells and lose other saves.

 

I see trade offs, not no-brainers. I would take Fighter later for most builds because Medium Armor is good if you have any DEX Bonuses (which with point buy is ideal because you can dump STR for 14 DEX so you can MC into fighter). I think you got this one wrong, Zard.

 

 

#17

QwertyAzerty

Apr 02, 2015 11:08:05

Coredump00 wrote:
#18

Istbor

Apr 02, 2015 11:14:46

QwertyAzerty wrote:
#19

DMStevenH

Apr 02, 2015 11:53:05

A two level fighter dip is very, very strong for a lot of classes. It'd argue that it's optimal for many classes. I can't see how a ranger doesn't take two levels in fighter at some point when you consider that the ranger capstone kind of sucks and the level 2 fighter ability is kind of amazing.

 

Two levels of fighter is similarly great for barbarians, paladins and spellblade warlocks. It's pretty good for mele focused clerics IMO. I'd argue that it's so much better for a lot of classes (especially with the first level proficiencies if you start fighter) that it's basically optimal and therefore, yes, a no brainer. You're almost always going to prefer two levels of fighter over 20 levels of your own class. It's really a case of action surge being incredibly great and many other classes 19 & 20 abilites being a bit meh. Also worth considering is that most parties just won't make it to 20 and won't spend that much time there if they do.

#20

mellored

Apr 02, 2015 11:59:27

DMStevenH wrote:
#21

FFSAA

Apr 02, 2015 12:44:34

pukunui wrote:
#22

Tempest_Stormwind

Apr 02, 2015 13:20:00

Psikerlord wrote:
#23

pukunui

Apr 02, 2015 13:27:26

FFSAA wrote:
(Reply to #19)

Coredump00

DMStevenH wrote:
#25

Zardnaar

Apr 02, 2015 16:39:21

For some builds I think it is a no braier still. The b;adelock for example as you still get a 2nd attack at level 5 and only delay progression by 1 level and the fighter dip features add up t mor than a geats worth of stuff IMHO.

#26

Kayal

Apr 02, 2015 16:56:28

DMStevenH wrote:
(Reply to #25)

Coredump00

Zardnaar wrote:
#28

Mommy_was_an_Orc

Apr 03, 2015 8:33:38

Zardnaar wrote:
#29

ChrisCarlson

Apr 03, 2015 8:42:05

Yeah, whenever I'm about to level up my characters, I'll sometimes spend hours pouring over every dip option to find just the perfect set of features and benefits to make me more powerful. I'm not all that concerned with stuff like, how does being a "rogue" or "cleric" makes sense (thematically) for my PC. Lame stuff like that. It's all about what the dip gives me. And that's what I go with.

 

Nothin' but win. All the time.

(Reply to #29)

Coredump00

ChrisCarlson wrote:
#31

Mommy_was_an_Orc

Apr 03, 2015 10:24:25

ChrisCarlson wrote:
#32

Mistwell

Apr 03, 2015 10:45:16

In my experience most people don't play to level 20.  So the idea you'd take certain levels at level 1 just so you can get a better result at level 20 seems quite silly to me.

#33

ChrisCarlson

Apr 03, 2015 11:50:39

Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
(Reply to #32)

AaronOfBarbaria

Mistwell wrote:
#35

Zardnaar

Apr 03, 2015 13:47:29

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#36

Rhenny

Apr 03, 2015 14:49:49

For me, multi-classing has to be for story reasons or at least I have to come up with a story if I ever decide to multi-class.   Most of the times (in past editions) I'd have fighter/rogue multi-classes because you couldn't get some of the sneak without it.

 

Backgrounds in 5e go a long way to keep me satisfied if I want a little sneak in my fighter or other class.   Being able to pick up some theives tool proficiency and/or stealth to begin a character is wonderful in the right campaign and it eliminates the need to multi-class when it is just a style/story decision.

 

So far, I've had no reason whatsoever to multi-class as a player and none of my players has even broached the subject of multiclassing.  I really do think that delaying to get the next higher spell level or the extra attack, or the more powerful attack (for clerics etc.)...holds multiclassing cheese to a minimum.

 

 

(Reply to #35)

AaronOfBarbaria

Zardnaar wrote:
#38

Zardnaar

Apr 03, 2015 14:55:04

Rhenny wrote:
#39

Rhenny

Apr 03, 2015 16:04:54

Zardnaar wrote:
#40

FFSAA

Apr 03, 2015 16:10:13

Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#41

Zardnaar

Apr 03, 2015 16:16:50

Rhenny wrote:
(Reply to #40)

AaronOfBarbaria

FFSAA wrote:
#43

Rhenny

Apr 03, 2015 20:37:59

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#44

Mommy_was_an_Orc

Apr 03, 2015 21:38:06

FFSAA wrote:
#45

Coredump00

Apr 03, 2015 21:49:01

I have seen some MCing, but almost always due to character concept concerns and not 'power' concerns.

 

 

#46

Rastapopoulos

Apr 03, 2015 23:26:04

 

 

You can dip.

 

 

Just remember... you should never double-dip!

 

 

Mythbusters proved that.

#47

Lokiron

Apr 04, 2015 2:20:00

I don't see where I'd MC fighter with my lvl 5 veng. pala. Lvl 1 would've been nice with con save prof, but that's too late. List of nice things to come:

6th  - sweet aura
7th  - relentless avenger (ok. I have a hard time seing this coming up, as our DM has yet to provoke OA)
8th  - ASI/feat (could give me con save prof)
9th  - 3rd level spells, very nice
10th - aura, bit meh, but soo close to impr. div. strike
11th - impr. div. strike

could go on, but that would be testing the group's patience

#48

Zardnaar

Apr 04, 2015 4:06:47

Lokiron wrote:
(Reply to #48)

Lokiron

Zardnaar wrote:
#50

abs1nth

Apr 04, 2015 6:31:29

Rhenny wrote:
#51

Mommy_was_an_Orc

Apr 04, 2015 6:40:31

abs1nth wrote:
(Reply to #45)

arnwolf666

Coredump00 wrote:
#53

Zardnaar

Apr 05, 2015 9:11:48

Lokiron wrote:
(Reply to #52)

Coredump00

arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #54)

arnwolf666

Coredump00 wrote:
#56

Psikerlord

Apr 05, 2015 21:05:34

abs1nth wrote:
(Reply to #56)

arnwolf666

Psikerlord wrote:
#58

Mommy_was_an_Orc

Apr 06, 2015 8:03:54

Psikerlord wrote:
(Reply to #58)

arnwolf666

Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#60

Zardnaar

Apr 06, 2015 21:59:19

Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
(Reply to #60)

arnwolf666

Zardnaar wrote:
(Reply to #60)

Lokiron

Zardnaar wrote:
(Reply to #62)

arnwolf666

Lokiron wrote:
(Reply to #63)

Lokiron

arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #64)

arnwolf666

Lokiron wrote:
#66

Zardnaar

Apr 07, 2015 2:26:18

Lokiron wrote:
#67

arnwolf666

Apr 07, 2015 2:29:27

Dual classing had restrictons if you used them properly.  You couldn't use any of the prior class abilities until you gained more levels in your new class than your old class.

#68

Zardnaar

Apr 07, 2015 2:34:49

arnwolf666 wrote:
#69

Zardnaar

Apr 07, 2015 2:36:42

arnwolf666 wrote: