Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Gazra Aug 28, 2014 20:21:36	For the past 14 years I have been bothered by the uselessness of odd ability scores. In AD&D every point of your ability score mattered because checks were handled by attempting to roll under your score. Rolling under a 17 is 5% more likely than rolling under a 16, so having that 17 matters. Meeting requirements for feats is a pale substitute for actually having your character perform better when his score raises to an odd number.   I've thought about how to fix it a number of times over the years, but never got anywhere with it. Today inspiration struck like a bolt of lightning with something so simple I feel like I should have thought of it 14 years ago:    If you make any kind of roll (attack, check, save, initiative, whatever) using an odd ability score, add an additional +1 to your result if you roll an even number. If you roll an odd number, do nothing different.   This makes your mod effectively 0.5 higher for checks, with no bookkeeping and very little effort involved. You could take this further and roll a d20 when you cast a spell or perform some kind of maneuver that someone must save against and add +1 to your DC if you roll an even number. When you are attacked, you can roll a d20 and add +1 to your AC for the attack. That might be going too far, but I'm not sure because I just thought of all this today.   What do you all think? Is this the dumbest idea ever or could this work?
#2 tallric_kruush Aug 28, 2014 20:44:06	It's a minor bit of extra book-keeping, but I think it works.
#3 Lady_Auralla Aug 28, 2014 21:16:23	Itseems they are using the odd numbered ability scores once again as prereqisites for feats and such.
#4 Einlanzer Aug 28, 2014 21:18:18	I kinda like how prior to 3rd stats had a variety of effects in different ways and I've often tried to figure out uses for the raw score rather than modifier, such as strength with carrying capacity and constitution with starting HP.  I considering doing xp bonus for int and passive perception for wisdom (rather than 10 + mod) and a few others things but never solidified anything very concrete.
#5 Thank_Dog Aug 28, 2014 21:23:41	Why does everything have to have a direct mechanical advantage in order to exist in a system?   If you pre-plan a PC build with point-buy, odd stats can be quite beneficial given that many feats give a +1 bonus in addition to other abilities. Or you can start with an even score in one ability, an odd in another, and add a feat to the even one to make it odd and then the next ability score bonus level, add +1 to both to get an instant stat bonus to two ability scores instead of one.   I see no reason to change it given that doing so only increases complexity for minimal or questionable benefit in order to satisfy a craving that would be better served by simply playing AD&D.
#6 KaribouOfDoom Aug 28, 2014 23:18:49	In 3.x, the only thing that readily comes to mind when thinking of raw, odd ability scores is carrying capacity, and I hardly think that's worth the distinction.  I like your idea.
#7 UngeheuerLich Aug 29, 2014 0:31:54	I think something like that would be easier and especially generous for the standard human:   With an odd score, your bonus to ability checks increases by one. So there is at least a minor benefit that is constantly there and may prove useful.   If you feel a little more generous, than you add the +1 bonus also to saving throws.   But never to attack rolls or save DCs.   You can easily write down the numbers as 13(+1/+2)
#8 Xeviat-DM Aug 29, 2014 1:37:36	Hmmm, ability checks could be (Score - 10) / 2, round up, while saves could be (Score - 10) / 2, round down. That would start this going somewhere.   I think the game would break if we went with modifier equals Score - 10.
#9 Brock_Landers Aug 29, 2014 1:44:34	Prerequisites for one, and if there is no 3-18, it is not D&D.
#10 Ramzour Aug 29, 2014 1:55:35	I appreciate the spirit of the idea, but honestly I would hate to have to track evens/odds on the d20 during play. I want as little book-keeping as possible in my games so we can get back to the action! Remember, rolling dice don't actually move the story along. The dice results only provide the direction that the story should evolve....but it doesn't actually move until you narrate it BASED upon the dice results.     One possible solution could be to say even ability scores give you a +1 to attacks and checks, while odd ability scores give you a +1 to saves. So a PC with STR 14 has +2 to attacks/checks/saves, while a PC wilth STR 15 has +2 to attacks/checks and +3 to saves. So when you have an odd score, you're still getting a small bonus.   This is something that wouldn't have to be tracked from round to round (like monitoring dice results), but can be calculated once and it doesn't change until your stats change. That said, the idea still adds complexity. Is the complexity worth it? Maybe.
#11 Noon Aug 29, 2014 3:02:11	Another idea is players can add plus one to odd numbered stats once per long rest. Check the roll - if you're short by one, add the bonus and place a tick next to that stat until you long rest.
#12 Brock_Landers Aug 29, 2014 3:07:18	Noon wrote:
#13 autolycus Aug 29, 2014 3:25:48	Brock_Landers wrote:
(Reply to #8) Steerpike84	Xeviat-DM wrote:
#15 Rils Aug 29, 2014 7:54:18	Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but isn't this essentially just moving the breaks where your mod bumps up?  Instead of:   10-11 = +0 12-13 = +1 14-15 = +2 etc,   the OP is suggesting:   9-10 = +0 11-12 = +1 13-14  = +2   It's just shifting everything down by a half-step so that you get the +1 at the odd break instead of the even break.
#16 autolycus Aug 29, 2014 8:37:36	Rils wrote:
#17 ChrisCarlson Aug 29, 2014 8:58:59	Won't it come up, based on the TN vs. bonus, that the +1 for rolling odd will be of no help at all?   Say your proposed rule is in effect, and I need a total of 16 on an attack roll. I have a +2 PB and a 17 Strength, giving me an attack bonus of +5. If I roll a '9' I end up with a total of 15 (inlcuding the +1 for rolling odd). Miss. Your proposed rule did me no good. No different had I rolled a '10' to give me the same 15 total. An '11' on the die likewise would not have benefitted from this pahntom bonus because the '11' hits anyway. The bonus is moot.   Seems like a lot of conditional complexity for little-to-no benefit.   It's also ripe for Retconapalooza nightmares like, "I realize we've already moved on to a new round, but oh shoot, Mr. DM, I forgot to add +1 for rolling a 13 on that save at the end of last round. So I actually had a total of 16, not 15. Did that make it?"   Ugh!
#18 Gazra Aug 29, 2014 9:07:16	A lot of interesting ideas being thrown about. I am feeling a bit partial to some of the suggestions about getting +1 to certain things and not to others.    @Rils It's more like: 10 - +0 11 - +0.5 12 - +1 13 - +1.5   Because half the time you get an extra +1, and the other half of the time you dont (and only when using an odd ability score mod).   Using ability score -10 as the mod is something I don't want to do, as it makes the numbers higher than I want. I like the -5 to +5 of modern ability scores; just not the part where odd scores are only used for things that are invisible during play.
#19 Siphersh Aug 29, 2014 10:49:39	Gazra, I don't know if you noticed it, let me point it out that this mod manages to halve that point of bonus by only applying it in the case of an even DC if the ability modifier is odd, and only appying it in the case of an odd DC if the ability modifier is even.   For example, if your ability score is 13, meaning that your ability modifier (+1) is an odd number, you get a whole point of bonus if the DC is 10 (being even), but you get effectively none if the DC is 15 (being odd).   "DC" of course meaning the net target number, with all additional modifiers included.
#20 Gazra Aug 29, 2014 11:07:42	Siphersh wrote:
#21 ChrisCarlson Aug 29, 2014 11:21:24	What about low, odd ability scores? Same?
#22 Goober4473 Aug 29, 2014 11:30:12	I use the rule that an odd score grants +1 to saves and damage/healing rolls based on that score. Not much bookkeeping, and it provides some advantage to having an odd score.
#23 spelley Aug 29, 2014 11:38:36	Goober4473 wrote:
#24 Siphersh Aug 29, 2014 11:50:33	Gazra wrote:
(Reply to #14) Xeviat-DM	Steerpike84 wrote:
#26 Shirebrok Aug 29, 2014 12:01:52	I'm thinking about using odd ability scores to provide extra possibilities for actions, instead of straight mechanical bonuses.   For example, in a combat scenario, the PC s need to open a gate to let in reinforcements. Turning the crank to open said gate requires both hands and an action, DC 15. If your Strength score is 15, no need to roll; if it's 17, you can do it with one hand. Or the Dabus in Sigil. They "speak" in rebuses which would require two minutes and an Intelligence check, DC 10, to decipher. If you have 13 Int, it takes only one minute; you can practically have a conversation (no check, no extra time) with 15 Int.   I figure that if odd scores don't have a direct mechanical impact on the character, they ought to have one somehow in the game world.
#27 Gazra Aug 29, 2014 12:31:47	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#28 ChrisCarlson Aug 29, 2014 12:34:16	Gazra wrote:
#29 Gazra Aug 29, 2014 12:56:56	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#30 Siphersh Aug 29, 2014 13:17:23	Gazra wrote: